Was Christopher Columbus obsessed with the Bible

DOC said:
Maybe that's why so many of the great explorers who greatly advanced civilization were devout Christians (and actually evangelists like Leif Ericson and Magellan). If you believe in a God and a afterlife your going to be more willing to do very dangerous things.

"It is fair to say that Magellan believed in God — Magellan's will, written in 1519, shows he was quite obviously a firm believer in God and Jesus, he paid some monks on his departure to pray for his success, and he managed to have many of the native peoples he encountered baptized on his voyages — it is also fair to say that he had rationalist leanings: "The church says the earth is flat," wrote Magellan, "but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."* (Magellan witnessed the solar eclipse of 17 April 1520.)"

From the Ronald Bruce Meyer website

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0427a-almanac.htm

Sounds like Magellan put more faith in God than the earthly Church, much like Thomas Jefferson.

Maybe Dr. James Kennedy was right -- this would be a much different world if Jesus had not been born.
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Gosh, why did the Chinese set out on all their voyages? Why did the Muslims quickly take control of a vast empire? How was it possible for the Romans to have travelled along the silk road without Christianity? How is it that the Greeks were in touch with India? How was it possible for humans to have crossed into the Americas before Jesus ever step foot on earthly soil?

I've always had this weird theory that commercial changes arising in the High Middle Ages and the tumultuous calamity of the Black Death overturning centuries of human society and forcing the creation of new labor saving technologies including new types of sails had more to do with who set out on those voyages rather than Christianity. Thanks for setting me straight. I guess now we just have to deal with 1500 years of inactivity once Christianity hit the market, but that shouldn't be too hard to explain away now should it?
 
DOC said:
wrote Magellan, "but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."* (Magellan witnessed the solar eclipse of 17 April 1520.)"
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If one sees the Earth's shadow on the moon, one is viewing a lunar eclipse, not a solar eclipse.

Is there a particular reason that, in a discussion of what Magellan believed, you feel necessary to quote a website hosted by a man who makes a living doing character voices? You are one of a kind, DOC, one of a kind, indeed.
 
DOC said:
Maybe Dr. James Kennedy was right -- this would be a much different world if Jesus had not been born.
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Of course he is correct. But it would also be a much different world if Mohamed or Siddhartha Gautama had never been born. Influence does not equal truth. After all it would be a much different world had not Ghengis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte or Adolph Hitler been born.
 
DOC said:
Maybe that's why so many of the great explorers who greatly advanced civilization were devout Christians (and actually evangelists like Leif Ericson and Magellan). If you believe in a God and a afterlife your going to be more willing to do very dangerous things.
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Oh, absolutely! You're going to be willing to throw your life away, because it doesn't really matter. The life after this one is what really matters.

Likewise, you aren't going to respect anyone else's life, either. Their lives are also easy for you to throw away.

This life is the only one I have. The whole time I was a christian, I WASTED MY LIFE, because I didn't value it.

Have fun wasting yours. There's nothing coming after. But you won't be able to regret it, so in the end it really matters even less for you, doesn't it?
 
DOC said:
Maybe that's why so many of the great explorers who greatly advanced civilization were devout Christians (and actually evangelists like Leif Ericson and Magellan).
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Leif Ericsson and Magellan greatly advanced civilization?? Setting up a failed outpost in Vinland is a great advancement??

he managed to have many of the native peoples he encountered baptized on his voyages
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He also managed to get killed by natives he was trying to baptize, I wonder why God didn't protect him?

it is also fair to say that he had rationalist leanings: "The church says the earth is flat," wrote Magellan, "but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church."* (Magellan witnessed the solar eclipse of 17 April 1520.)"
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Oddly enough despite this quote being touted around some athiest websites I don't think it is a true quote. I tried researching it a year ago and I've found no record of it earlier than the 1980s, and it was not in Pigfetta's journal of the Magellan expeditions (in fact the journal rarely quoted anyone, just listed events that occured during the voyage). Unless someone can show where the original source for it is, I think the "shadow on the moon" quote is an urban legend.

By the way DOC, how often are you going to get pummeled in these threads you start before it sinks in that not only is your thinking illogical and haphazard, but that the casual lurker quickly sees that.
 
slingblade said:
Oh, absolutely! You're going to be willing to throw your life away, because it doesn't really matter. The life after this one is what really matters.

Likewise, you aren't going to respect anyone else's life, either. Their lives are also easy for you to throw away.
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Well I wouldn't say Columbus or Peter or Paul threw their life away. Because here we are 2000 years later talking about them.

Actually, an argument could be made that life is much cheaper and disposable in atheistic countries like China and Russia. And don't forget its the secular atheists and humanists who are more in favor of abortion and euthanasia than the Christians.
 
quixotecoyote said:
I don't think anyone's asked, "So what?" yet.

to the OP:
So what?
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I have a feeling when your school teacher taught about Columbus you didn't say so what, so why say so what when the motivation for his extremely important voyage that changed the course of human history is discussed.

Maybe if we talked about Harry Potter or American Idol you wouldn't say so what.
 
DOC said:
I have a feeling when your school teacher taught about Columbus you didn't say so what, so why say so what when the motivation for his extremely important voyage that changed the course of human history is discussed.

Maybe if we talked about Harry Potter or American Idol you wouldn't say so what.
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It's a failure of high school history education that you didn't ask your teachers that.

Let's say I agree with you entirely. What's the implication?
 
Foster Zygote said:
Of course he is correct. But it would also be a much different world if Mohamed or Siddhartha Gautama had never been born. Influence does not equal truth. After all it would be a much different world had not Ghengis Khan, Napoleon Bonaparte or Adolph Hitler been born.
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Well, besides Christ's impact on Columbus' voyage the book "What if Jesus had never been born" talks about Christ's impact on

The value of human life

helping the poor

Christianity's contribution to education

the Founding of America

civil liberties

science

economics

sex and the Family

Health and Medicine

Morality

Arts and Music

Lives changed by Christ


If I get the time maybe I'll start a thread about the above.
 
quixotecoyote said:
It's a failure of high school history education that you didn't ask your teachers that.

Let's say I agree with you entirely.
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So your implying that if you had to do it all over again, you would have asked your history teacher "so what" when he taught about Columbus?
 
DOC said:
So your implying that if you had to do it all over again, you would have asked your history teacher "so what" when he taught about Columbus?
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You assume I did not. For the record I had a great history teacher in high school who covered the 'so what' of Columbus without being asked.

All you are literally saying is that Columbus had religious motivations. That wasn't really in question, but so what? How does that change our perception of him? How does it change the way we view him? What insight does this grant us into the meaning of history?

In short, why is it worth your time to write about?
 
DOC said:
Well I wouldn't say Columbus or Peter or Paul threw their life away. Because here we are 2000 years later talking about them.
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So then the best way to not throw your life away would be destroying empires. We are after all still talking about Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great. So all you need to do is find a way to become remembered with a middle name of the.
 
DOC said:
I have a feeling when your school teacher taught about Columbus you didn't say so what, so why say so what when the motivation for his extremely important voyage that changed the course of human history is discussed.

Maybe if we talked about Harry Potter or American Idol you wouldn't say so what.
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So basically you are saying only a christian could be so stupid to decide that it would be convenient if the world was half the size it was and base life or death decisions on this decision?

Is this supposed to be a good thing?
 
DOC said:
And don't forget its the secular atheists and humanists who are more in favor of abortion and euthanasia than the Christians.
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Yes. How utterly horrid is the idea that someone dying of a terminal illness and suffering immense pain should kill himself - or even worse: ask for help in killing himself.
 
DOC said:
Well, besides Christ's impact on Columbus' voyage the book "What if Jesus had never been born" talks about Christ's impact on...

civil liberties
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Somehow I am not convinced that the civil liberties of homosexuals have been advanced by Jesus's birth and life.


... science ...
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Riiiiiight. We live in a country where 45% of the population believes that the humans were created less than 10,000 years ago - where 3 of the Republicans running for the highest office in the country publicly deny evolution. You and I have a very, very different idea of what a positive impact on science is.
 
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