Was Captain Kirk A Republican?

[Delvo]

I don't know about the eventual fate of the NX, but to the best of my knowledge only the original Constitution-class starship was lead to its destruction by Kirk. A was decommissioned, B is assumed to have been decommissioned {and was never under Kirk's command anyway}, C was destroyed (twice) under the command of two different captains long after Kirk was assumed dead, D was lost under the command of Riker, E-J all have fates unknown.

Ya, we've seen this weird claim about Kirk (and Picard) supposedly repeatedly tossing starships to the vultures before, sometimes its counter-factuality gets pointed out, and it just doesn't stop coming back. It's like the one about Worf supposedly constantly losing fights. I've seen a video that claimed to be a list of examples, but it didn't have a single actual example; it showed several cases of him getting blasted by magic from supernatural beings, but he was never supposed to be magical like them so they're irrelevant, and it showed one case of something falling on him in storage, which has nothing to do with his ability as a fighter. And it's not just Star Trek; Star Wars fans talk about Ewoks clobbering Stormtroopers, but that's not what happened in that battle; they were shown to be mostly ineffective and losing until Chewbacca hijacked a baby AT-AT, and then that's what won the battle instead of the Ewoks.

I don't know what motivates fans of something to make up some weird false claims about it to claim were problems with it, or to keep passing the same ones around all the time, but there it is, over and over. It even happens outside of TV shows & movies; many cat owners, for example, depict cats as asocial, but anyone who's actually had cats knows (whether they say so or not) that they're not.

Similarly, I rather doubt the claims I've kept seeing my whole life about Kirk being a huge risk-taker. It's exactly the kind of thing people would say in this complaining-about-nothing mode, and I can't think of examples of it myself. The only reason I'm not declaring that it certainly is another example of this trend is that I haven't seen a lot of Kirk stuff myself in ages.

 

[Toontown]

Which was an example of Kirk's reckless incompetence.

According to Wikipedia, Kirk "beat" the simulation on his 3rd try, after twice losing a Starfleet ship in mindless gambles, risking interstellar war to save a small civilian vessel which could easily have been bait. In fact, Kirk knew after the first time he took the test that the Koybayashi Maru was in fact bait. But he went in again anyway, and lost his ship and crew again. Then cheated by hacking the sim on his 3rd try.

And miraculously escaped being washed out, then went on to lead very nearly every iteration of Enterprise in the multiverse to destruction.

I don't know about the eventual fate of the NX, but to the best of my knowledge only the original Constitution-class starship was lead to its destruction by Kirk. A was decommissioned, B is assumed to have been decommissioned, C was destroyed (twice) under the command of two different captains long after Kirk was assumed dead, D was lost under the command of Riker, E-J all have fates unknown.

You didn't understand my "multiverse" reference.

The series had to be based on a branch of the Everett multiverse in which Kirk and crew survived many near-death experiences due to the realization of all possibilities. However, in an Everett multiverse, there would have been many more branches in which Enterprise and crew were quickly snuffed. Those branches would be just as real as the one the series followed.

My position was that the Star Trek universe had to be an Everett multiverse, because a singular Kirk would not have survived that long in a one-off.

 

[Beerina]

Star Wars fans talk about Ewoks clobbering Stormtroopers, but that's not what happened in that battle; they were shown to be mostly ineffective and losing until Chewbacca hijacked a baby AT-AT, and then that's what won the battle instead of the Ewoks.

The Ewoks took out at least two of those by themselves (the log rollers and the swinging logs.) They just needed to lure them into the trap. This was pre-planned and independent of any Chewbacca activity.

As shown, these baby AT-ATs could easily take out each other, so this is exceedingly important.

 

[Mudcat]

Ya, we've seen this weird claim about Kirk (and Picard) supposedly repeatedly tossing starships to the vultures before, sometimes its counter-factuality gets pointed out, and it just doesn't stop coming back.

In the interest of fairness, they both lost multiple ships under their command or someone else's. Kirk lost the Faragut (or at least it's implied in Obsession) and intentionally destroyed the Constellation but if he hadn't than the planet killer would never have been stopped. Picard abandoned the Stargazer although it could be argued that he had no good reason to do so because it was obviously not too bad off single a single Ferengi recovered and repaired it, numerous other ships were destroyed under his command as well either by his express command or by those under his command.

In the interest of fairness.

 

[Seismosaurus]

In the interest of fairness, they both lost multiple ships under their command or someone else's. Kirk lost the Faragut (or at least it's implied in Obsession)

The Farragut wasn't lost - half the crew were killed, but there's nothing to indicate that the ship itself was lost. And in any case, Kirk wasn't in command of the Farragut. Captain Garrovick was.

and intentionally destroyed the Constellation but if he hadn't than the planet killer would never have been stopped. Picard abandoned the Stargazer although it could be argued that he had no good reason to do so because it was obviously not too bad off single a single Ferengi recovered and repaired it,

There's a long attempt to justify the loss of the Stargazer in one of the TNG novels. IIRC there was a major fire going on, life support couldn't cope with the smoke or replenish the Oxygen, so they evacuated hoping to vent all the air once outside, then come back aboard once the fires were out. But the computer controls wouldn't vent most of the ship, and then a cannister of plutonium in one of the labs was ruptured in an explosion, spreading plutonium dust through the ship. A bunch of survivors on lifeboats and shuttles had no way to decontaminate it, so they couldn't go back aboard. They didn't have the weapons capable of destroying it, and in any case it was falling down towards a gas giant where it would burn up anyway in a few days. So they just left it behind.

But by a freak chance it bounced off the atmosphere. And the Ferengi who found it did have decontamination gear, so...

 

[Mudcat]

The Farragut wasn't lost - half the crew were killed, but there's nothing to indicate that the ship itself was lost.

Both the Starfleet Technical Manual and The Making of Star Trek say that it was destroyed. That might be what I was thinking of.

And in any case, Kirk wasn't in command of the Farragut. Captain Garrovick was.

Garrovick had died, along with two-hundred crewmembers, due to vampire cloud creature so whoever the highest ranking bridge crewmember at that moment was in command. I might be misremembering, but it was Kirk in command at that moment (even though one of his superiors did, in fact, survive).

There's a long attempt to justify the loss of the Stargazer in one of the TNG novels. IIRC there was a major fire going on, life support couldn't cope with the smoke or replenish the Oxygen, so they evacuated hoping to vent all the air once outside, then come back aboard once the fires were out. But the computer controls wouldn't vent most of the ship, and then a cannister of plutonium in one of the labs was ruptured in an explosion, spreading plutonium dust through the ship. A bunch of survivors on lifeboats and shuttles had no way to decontaminate it, so they couldn't go back aboard. They didn't have the weapons capable of destroying it, and in any case it was falling down towards a gas giant where it would burn up anyway in a few days. So they just left it behind.

But by a freak chance it bounced off the atmosphere. And the Ferengi who found it did have decontamination gear, so...

Sounds a bit like the explanation for when Han Solo says "You've never heard of the Millennium Falcon?…It's the ship that made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs."

Except it can almost work.

 

[Ziggurat]

There's a long attempt to justify the loss of the Stargazer in one of the TNG novels.

Oh, you're one of those people.

 

[Roger Ramjets]

After 20 or so near-death experiences, the entire crew must have been pretty sure it was in fact an Everettverse. But no one ever spoke of it.

Not an Everettverse, a Hollyverse. Had Kirk turned tail every time a near-death experience loomed, you can bet the show wouldn't have lasted long. It was only the drama of meeting adversity head on that ensured the Star Trek Universe's survival!

 

[tuco]

They were explorers .. to boldly go .. then they met others and politics emerged. Without the drama the disconnect would arrive quickly. No money, prime directive, turning the other cheek, phasers on stun, no sex well .. Republican, I dunno.

 

[stevea]

I just remembered a Kirk quote which should have been used the moment this guy opened his pie hole.

"Here's one thing you can be sure of, mister. You can leave whatever bigotry you have in your quarters, there's no room for it on the bridge!" Doesn't sound very republicanesqe. Does it?

If Kirk had only said, "We tolerate and promote the approved forms of bigotry on this bridge", we'd know his partisan leanings clearly enough.

 

[stevea]

Captain James Kirk and his ship and crew could only have survived in a many-worlds universe. A one-off would have snuffed their singular iteration early on. ...

True, but a story about space-farers studying moss on rigel12 was unlikely to sell. Maybe I'm wrong - wasn't that the basis for DS9 ?

 

[Beerina]

No, the parallel worlds in DS9 were used primarily to generate lesbian saliva-string kisses.

 

[Border Reiver]

No, the parallel worlds in DS9 were used primarily to generate lesbian saliva-string kisses.

There was a problem with that?