Was Bush wired for the debate?

[CFLarsen]

No, they are not. This one is from the second debate.

Ehhh....evidence? Which is from what debate?

I don't understand your question.
The clip is from Bush speaking sometime during the 60-year d-day celebrations earlier this year. The sound is as it was broadcast on CNN. (Or so it is claimed. I obviously didn't see or record this on CNN.)

Exactly. I want to know if the clip is from the original CNN tape.

No idea. Maybe the receiver needs to be very close to the transmitter?

Nah, man. We have wireless networks in our homes. Don't tell me that the Secret Service can't do better.

 

[Rob Lister]

Why wear it there? Why not in his belt?

Bad tailoring. But it's always interesting to see just how many will believe the worst.

Actually it's fairly good tailoring, if you ask me. Judging from the photo already linked

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/041009/480/pd13510090242

The bulge appears to me to be a bullet-proof vest. It's about the right shape and bulkiness. We know he wears one (all since Reagan have AFAIK).

Covering that nicely under an off-the-rack suit ain't gonna happen.

I'm guessing it's something a bit like this...

But more expensive...or course.

 

[mbp]

Ehhh....evidence? Which is from what debate?

Huh? Are you being serious?
The picture I've posted a link to is from the second debate. And as it's the only picture I've linked to (in this thread), I don't understand the "which" question.
As evidence I offer the caption

President Bush gestures toward his Democratic challenger John Kerry during the presidential debate in St. Louis, Friday, Oct. 8, 2004. (AP Photo/Ron Edmonds)

Which appears beneath the picture on the news.yahoo.com page I linked to.

Exactly. I want to know if the clip is from the original CNN tape.

Hard to know either way without access to CNN's archives. The episode is briefly mentioned in the Salon story as a fact and not something under dispute. Which still proves nothing, I agree.
And being wired while giving a speech or making a prepared statement isn't really any "worse" than using a telepromter.

Nah, man. We have wireless networks in our homes. Don't tell me that the Secret Service can't do better.

That does seem odd, I agree. Unless the distance to the ear is crucial I can't think of a good reason to place it on his back.
Although a very very small receiver placed in the ear or on a tooth (a different theory ) would probably not have quite the range of your average wireless lan adapter.
And maybe they just weren't expecting the media to break the rule about not having cameras placed behind the candidates.

 

[mbp]

The bulge appears to me to be a bullet-proof vest. It's about the right shape and bulkiness. We know he wears one (all since Reagan have AFAIK).

According to this article in the New York Times, "campaign and White House officials" deny that Bush was wearing a bullet-proof vest.
Although I suppose he could have been anyway.

 

[Rob Lister]

According to this article in the New York Times, "campaign and White House officials" deny that Bush was wearing a bullet-proof vest.
Although I suppose he could have been anyway.

Well, I suppose if they deny it, he wasn't...except I'm pretty sure he was. That he/they would deny it makes sense.

I guess one way to know (somewhat more for) sure is by researching the many photos of Bush appearing before other live audiencies -- specifically the photos taken from behind.

It isn't often he is dressed in simi-formal attire so it should be pretty easy to flush this out.

I'll google a few later if I get time.

Mind you, I'm doing this for the challenge factor mostly. I'm pretty much convinced that if he were to wear a radio at a debate, he wouldn't wear one so obvious.

He could put it in his pants with his other presidential bulge!



^above was for Dorine, 'cause I know there's a real love interest there.

 

[billydkid]

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/10/11/1097406493527.html

I don't know how seriously to take this claim. Any more information pro or con?

He does frequently seem to be listening to other voices. I thought it was God.

 

[a_unique_person]

Nice.

Even better than AUP, man.

Nice, I ask for some input because the idea seems pretty implausible, and you trash me. Teach me to ask for some skeptical input again, won't it?

 

[csense]

What you really should be concerned about is the .45 caliber which is entirely obvious under his right arm and above the pocket, with the muzzle pointing at between 7 and 8

 

[LostAngeles]

While Bush being wired and fed answers wouldn't surprise me, I'm tending towards "not so" for two points.

One of the arguements for the wire is that Bush said "Let me finish." Why is his feeder saying that? Who would be interrupting the feeder?

...OK, it's one point. I just think that one's kind of dumb.

Unless I'm cutting myself with the Razor, the bulletproof vest seems a simpler and more plausible explanation. The White House probably denied it because Kerry wasn't wearing one. Obvious response from the left hand of Nitwit is "Ehh, how come Kerry didn't get to wear one?" (hint: because you didn't think to put one on him. If the WH said, "We're putting a vest on Bush. Why don't you do the same with Kerry?" which would have gotten "OMG, debate not safe! WH knowZ d00dZ.")

As far as Kerry goes, well, Drudge is the right hand of Nitwit and as such, I tend to ignore his repor... Oh, I'm sorry, muckraking is the term I want to use there, yes.

(No, I'm not sick of the left and the right wings. Not at all.)

 

[aerocontrols]

Nice, I ask for some input because the idea seems pretty implausible, and you trash me. Teach me to ask for some skeptical input again, won't it?

I've thought it over, and I still think that a reasonable person wouldn't need any help deciding how seriously to take this claim.

I find it humorous that you ask the question, rather than coming to your own conclusion.

I managed to come to my own conclusion that Kerry didn't sneak any notes onto his podium at the same debate.

The idea of either trying to cheat is ridiculous.

 

[a_unique_person]

I've thought it over, and I still think that a reasonable person wouldn't need any help deciding how seriously to take this claim.

I find it humorous that you ask the question, rather than coming to your own conclusion.

Humorous? The link is from a reputable news source. Now, that certainly doesn't make it true, but it does mean that someone who should be trained in the art of using evidence to make a story thinks it could be true. I didn't say if I thought it was mostly unbelievable, or mostly believable. Even if it is totally unbelievable, it is interesting that reputable people are seriously putting this forward as a possibility, just for the sake of curiousity.

One thing I have learned, commonsense is fallible.

I managed to come to my own conclusion that Kerry didn't sneak any notes onto his podium at the same debate.

The idea of either trying to cheat is ridiculous.

I'm afraid politicians have plenty of form, including this one. Ref: reasons for going to war.

 

[csense]

Even if it is totally unbelievable, it is interesting that reputable people are seriously putting this forward as a possibility, just for the sake of curiousity.

I think there are better motives at play here, the least of which being wishful thinking.

Bush wasn't wearing anything and that includes a vest or a wire. You're seeing a combination of tensional forces, or vectors, and shading. That's it. Anything else you see is entirely from your own imagination.

 

[a_unique_person]

I think there are better motives at play here, the least of which being wishful thinking.

Bush wasn't wearing anything and that includes a vest or a wire. You're seeing a combination of tensional forces, or vectors, and shading. That's it. Anything else you see is entirely from your own imagination.

Not my imagination, the reporters imagination. I have no idea what listening devices are capable of these days. I did think it sounded pretty ridiculous myself, but put it up here for a discussion anyway. Suddenly, it's wishful thinking on my part. I think it's more like wishful thinking on your part.

 

[csense]

Not my imagination, the reporters imagination. I have no idea what listening devices are capable of these days. I did think it sounded pretty ridiculous myself, but put it up here for a discussion anyway. Suddenly, it's wishful thinking on my part. I think it's more like wishful thinking on your part.

Not your motives, but the motives of the reputable people you made reference to...and in the second part I'm using the pronoun you generally not specifically.

 

[damn_wookie]

Der Spiegel Pic

I inadventantly duplicated this thread elsewhere.

Anyways...

We all want as much information as possible. This very forum is on a site dedicated to the work of Mr. Randi.

Many years ago he caught a prominent televangelist pulling this very trick. There was a hilarious send up of this in "Fletch Lives".

I would think his experiences would be EXTREMELY relevant to this issue.

Is it really so preposterous that Bush would try such a thing? Or more likely, get talked into it?

 

[csense]

Der Spiegel Pic

Is it really so preposterous that Bush would try such a thing?

OMG....Kerry also has a strange anomaly in what looks like the middle of his back also. I don't think these are wires people...I think it's something much more sinister. It's apparent to me now that the wire story is a cover, and both Bush and Kerry are aliens who are secretly trying to take over our planet, and what we are witnessing in the picture below is Bush (or whatever his alien name is) checking to see that Kerry's (or whatever his alien name is) pronounced reptilian spinal cord is properly concealed from view.


Der Spiegel pic

 

[a_unique_person]

OMG....Kerry also has a strange anomaly in what looks like the middle of his back also. I don't think these are wires people...I think it's something much more sinister. It's apparent to me now that the wire story is a cover, and both Bush and Kerry are aliens who are secretly trying to take over our planet, and what we are witnessing in the picture below is Bush (or whatever his alien name is) checking to see that Kerry's (or whatever his alien name is) pronounced reptilian spinal cord is properly concealed from view.


Der Spiegel pic

I'm just worried at the way they can't keep their hands off each other. And that little aside they make to each other, that wouldn't be scripted would it, it would be just a witty little comment that ocurred to them on the spur of the moment.

 

[csense]

I'm just worried at the way they can't keep their hands off each other. And that little aside they make to each other, that wouldn't be scripted would it, it would be just a witty little comment that ocurred to them on the spur of the moment.

Considering that the aliens (we know as Bush and Kerry) can't speak their native language in front of us for obvious reasons, they are using our language as code unbeknowest to us, so I think the meaning of any of these intimate comments are fairly irrelevant from our perspective...given of course what we now know.

 

[CFLarsen]

Huh? Are you being serious?
The picture I've posted a link to is from the second debate. And as it's the only picture I've linked to (in this thread), I don't understand the "which" question.
As evidence I offer the caption

Which appears beneath the picture on the news.yahoo.com page I linked to.

There's a photo in the (corrected!) link on the other thread about this subject. Sorry for the confusion.

And being wired while giving a speech or making a prepared statement isn't really any "worse" than using a telepromter.

Except this is neither a speech, nor a prepared statement, nor are both politicians using a teleprompter. This is a debate, and one shouldn't use outside help (at least not hidden) during one such.

And maybe they just weren't expecting the media to break the rule about not having cameras placed behind the candidates.

Actually, that makes pretty dramatic pictures...

Anyway, a storm in a tea cup.

 

[gnome]

One of the arguements for the wire is that Bush said "Let me finish." Why is his feeder saying that? Who would be interrupting the feeder?

The way I envisioned this scenario, Bush was unconsciously talking to the feeder, feeling interrupted by new cues before he was finished speaking the last thought.

I bet it's hard, if someone's talking in your ear, and able to respond to things that you say, to keep from saying something back to them at times.