Was 9/11 an inside job?

[bill smith]

What makes you think the metal only melted right before it is seen in the filmshots?
What of the possibility it was molten for a longer time and only moved to the corner when the floor it was on shifted. The shifting of the floor being one of the first stages of the coming collapse?

Do you think that this possibilty can be totally discarded? And if not, what would be the implications in your opinion?

I had a similar idea in a post I made a while back

''Conspirator 1: Five weeks ago alraedy. Time sure flies. How do you assess the the operation ? Any residual problems ?

Conspirator 2: A few. ould be worse I suppose. After the flight 93/WTC7 fiasco there is no more hope that 'conspiracy theories' will not take off big time. The Sheeple are still in a deep state of shock and are not thinking too much that way yet. When ythey begin to snap out of their trance a few will realise what happened. The battle will be largely on the internet. Forums emostly but the Pentagon has been training what it calls 'propaganda assets' to provide interference there. There's more than a thousand of them I believe. Their job is to actually argue the points but basically to say 'no' to anything the CT's will say. Very effective technique actually.Tried and tested.

Conspirator 1: I was thinking more of the Tower CD's.

Conspirator 2: Well the steel is in the basement as planned but it seems no matter how much water we pump in the steel will not cool. The scientists say that it has now formed a skin and is radiating a little less heat but still more than enough to melt the firemen's nboots 70 feet above on the surface through all the rubble. They also say that it could now take up to 100 days to cool down. We actually had to stop pumping water in because train stations as far away as New jersey were threatening to flood. They pumped 4 million gallons back into the Hudson I heard.

Then there is that damned column that didn't melt clean in Tower 2. There must have been a delay and the 80th floor did not melt at the exact moment .But the columns above did and some of the melted steel flowed across the floor and poured out the window. My blood froze I can tell you. We'll hear more about that.

Another worry is that where the water met the giant pool of molten steel we will find steel and concrete and everything else all half-melted together . I bet they will call chunks of it meteorites' or something like that.

Conspirator 1: So not a clean operation at all really was it ? I suppose as long as we can keep it on the internet it will be essentially harmless. Maybe not forever though.''

 

[Relax]

What makes you think the metal only melted right before it is seen in the filmshots?
What of the possibility it was molten for a longer time and only moved to the corner when the floor it was on shifted. The shifting of the floor being one of the first stages of the coming collapse?

Do you think that this possibilty can be totally discarded? And if not, what would be the implications in your opinion?

Oh I would give that a valid possibility if it didn't look like thermite, and other traces of thermite found throughout the collapse (little puffballs way below the field of debris), and even after the collapse when iron droplets were tested and found to contain traces of thermite. If many eye witnesses did not credit hearing the noise of loud explosions, hearing these explosions for myself in the video with the firemen inside the twin towers and close up videos of the tower collapsing on the outside as the top part fell, and if I had no common sense at all to distinguish multiple explosions set off at once and an actual collapse. If white flashes were not seen inside the tower moments before it's collapse. Yeah, I'd give it credit. I would if these things did not happen. But they did.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

capable of melting steel... a feet jet fuel could not accomplish, and now ordinary office supplies can?

You (or anyone else for that matter) have not shown that there was any melted steel. Molten metal does not automatically mean melted steel. Especially when there were other metals in abundance with lower melting points.

I'm assuming that there was no huge bank of UPS batteries owned by the fuji bank there as the official story states it as melted aluminum... something I already gave a reason for discrediting. first time I've heard of a bank of batteries being stored conveniently next to the open hole the airplane debris left.

There is no "Official Story". There is only a narrative of events. The only people who use the term "Official Story" are truthers.

There was in fact a huge bank of batteries there. Fuji banks servers were there. The batteries weren't put there after the holes (obviously) so you have the chain of events backwards.

I am looking back, that's why I'm going this way.

Good. Remember. asking questions without accepting valid answers is just JAQing off.

sounds like the bush administration.

Which means that you also have a political agenda of sorts. Toss it out or, if you can't do that, then understand that it will color your judgement. Only you can be honest to yourself on this one.

If I just read and accepted things, I probably wouldn't believe that planes hit the tower at all by now.

Well that's good. At least you have some critical thinking skills.

 

[Relax]

You (or anyone else for that matter) have not shown that there was any melted steel. Molten metal does not automatically mean melted steel. Especially when there were other metals in abundance with lower melting points.

or it could be the residue left from the giant amount of.... THERMITE! Is it really that hard to accept? I wonder how long it would take for that stuff to cool off anyways.

There is no "Official Story". There is only a narrative of events. The only people who use the term "Official Story" are truthers.

There was in fact a huge bank of batteries there. Fuji banks servers were there. The batteries weren't put there after the holes (obviously) so you have the chain of events backwards.

That is one hell of a lot of batteries, care to link your source please? It sounds ridiculous I gotta tell ya, I did post a different link with metal melting in a different section of the towers seen through the windows you know.

Anyways please give me a link.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

Oh I would give that a valid possibility if it didn't look like thermite, and other traces of thermite found throughout the collapse (little puffballs way below the field of debris), and even after the collapse when iron droplets were tested and found to contain traces of thermite. If many eye witnesses did not credit hearing the noise of loud explosions, hearing these explosions for myself in the video with the firemen inside the twin towers and close up videos of the tower collapsing on the outside as the top part fell, and if I had no common sense at all to distinguish multiple explosions set off at once and an actual collapse. If white flashes were not seen inside the tower moments before it's collapse. Yeah, I'd give it credit. I would if these things did not happen. But they did.

I lined out the outright lies that you posted.

The sound of "explosions" in a large structure fire are commonplace. Do not confuse "Sounds like" (a simile) with was (a declaration). Listen to what they say in total and not some cherry picked and edited sound bites.

There were no sounds of explosives in that (or any other video) of the collapses. Explosives have a very sharp and distinct sound, especially when heard from up close. People saw flashes as they collapsed. Shorting out wiring and reflections from vibrating windows are both quite valid alternatives that require no explosives. That you don't see glass and shrapnel flying out of ALL windows yet you can see flashes is a very good indication that there were no explosives going off.

 

[MetalPig]

It sounds ridiculous I gotta tell ya,

I don't think "critical thinking" means what you think it means.

 

[erwinl]

Oh I would give that a valid possibility if it didn't look like thermite, and other traces of thermite found throughout the collapse (little puffballs way below the field of debris), and even after the collapse when iron droplets were tested and found to contain traces of thermite. If many eye witnesses did not credit hearing the noise of loud explosions, hearing these explosions for myself in the video with the firemen inside the twin towers and close up videos of the tower collapsing on the outside as the top part fell, and if I had no common sense at all to distinguish multiple explosions set off at once and an actual collapse. If white flashes were not seen inside the tower moments before it's collapse. Yeah, I'd give it credit. I would if these things did not happen. But they did.

How does it look like thermite, other than it being hot and liquid?
What would a trace of thermite in a iron droplet look like? iron, rust, aluminium and aluminiumoxide. No possiblity of these elements and compounds being found there other than coming from thermite?

Where did you see the white flashes that indicate thermite going off? I would suspect that the inside of the towers would briefly look like a sun was shining inside. Or was this special thermite which didn't have a bright flash during the reaction?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

I wonder how long it would take for that stuff to cool off anyways.

Seconds to lose fluidity (aka molten) and minutes to be cool enough to touch (depending on the mass of course). Longer if sufficiently insulated (in the order of hours, not days or weeks). The generation of heat stops as soon as the metals are done reacting.

Anyways please give me a link.

http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

 

[bill smith]

How does it look like thermite, other than it being hot and liquid?
What would a trace of thermite in a iron droplet look like? iron, rust, aluminium and aluminiumoxide. No possiblity of these elements and compounds being found there other than coming from thermite?

Where did you see the white flashes that indicate thermite going off? I would suspect that the inside of the towers would briefly look like a sun was shining inside. Or was this special thermite which didn't have a bright flas during the reaction?

It was INSIDE some selected core box-columns which were completely melted potentially as far up as the 88th floor. The fireproofing shielded the light of the combustion as the liquid steel dropped down through the holes in the floor where the column underneath had vbeen until just an instant before. In this way the melted steel dropped into the basements. IMO.

 

[Relax]

I lined out the outright lies that you posted.

'look like thermite, and other traces of thermite found throughout the collapse'

when iron droplets were tested and found to contain traces of thermite

Ah I'll just repost this.

If you're curious just individually validate each one of them. I would but I already did and it's pointless if you aren't at least curious yourself because you'd just deny the evidence.

 

[Architect]

So, basically you have nothing concrete in the way of evidence and analysis?

 

[Sam.I.Am]

The "Paper" that supposedly did the validation of therm*te has already been thoroughly discussed and debunked here at JREF. I don't need or want to rehash it in detail. Start off the search by using "Betham" and "Harrit" in the search field.

 

[bill smith]

Seconds to lose fluidity (aka molten) and minutes to be cool enough to touch (depending on the mass of course). Longer if sufficiently insulated (in the order of hours, not days or weeks). The generation of heat stops as soon as the metals are done reacting.



http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

Suppose it was 15 or more carefully selected core columns that were melted and drained into the basements ? The building would still stand fine with a factor of safety of at least three.There might be as much as 12 or 15 thousand tons of molten steel bubbling in the basements. How long would that take to cool in those well insulated conditions ? 99 days or so ?

 

[Athyrio]

.......I don't proclaim myself as a truther now do I?

Wanna bet? Your next sentence confirms it.

I have heard that many of the people who survived the collapse/demolitions of the towers are experiencing health issues which could be related to therm*te explosives, I have not taken it upon myself to research into it though.

I said this would happen.

 

[Architect]

Bill, are you winding us up?

 

[leftysergeant]

Uote]

Thermite COULD have done it. and that guy who made that video is just a regular construction worker from what I hear... not the so called 'experts' hired by the government.

Construction engineer, as i have been given to understand. Totally unfit for his job, of course. The stupid drongo doesn't even realize that his device is too cumbersome and leaves identifiable residues all over the steel where any cop or fire fighter wouldl recognize it. And the way he bangs on about the manual not being followed shows that he is useless in forensic discussions because the idiot overlooks the fact that the manual is used as a guide (it has no force of law, regardless what the mouth-breathing twooftards claim) to determine what caused a fire. What morons who swear that it has to be followed to the letter fail to grasp is that we KNEW ALREADY what caused the fire. Two big freaking aircraft running into the buildings.

Yeesh! Whadda maroooooon!

William Cooper predicts an event like 9/11 would happen and that it would be blamed on Osama Bin Laden

Cooper is an idiot. He can't grasp why ObL would have given an interview to a journalist, but the CIA can't figure out where he was. Hello, Mister Tofu-for-brains? When the bad guys want to talk to somebody about what they want the rest of the world to do, they will find a journalist who has already shown some interest. This is not First Grade Arithmetic here, people.

This video also contains the towers 'collapsing' and the visible clouds of smoke before the 'collapse' ever reach them.

No, it shows dust escaping from the windows on levels where the floors have alread fallen, but the wals are still in place. You can see, if you are not already mind-humped by the twoofer gurus, that the little whisps of smoke fill up with increasingly dense dust and debris. This is bass ackwards to explosive squibs, which start out at 100% and turn to little wisps.

Also shows white flashes inside the WTC which are claimed by many of the Thermite theory to be the ignitions.

Idiotic notion. They are reflections from broken glass and aluminum cladding.

Don't believe that there were explosions? In this video, the only surviving video that I know of, you can actually HEAR the explosions FOR YOURSELVES at around 3:43-4:05

No, you hear monsterously heavy stuff falling somewhere close by. Sound about right to someone who has heard a builidng or a side of a mountain collapse.

Another thing I find suspicious about that is... how in god's name is jet fuel supposed to shoot out 78 stories below?

The elevator shafts were enclosed spaces. There was a huge explosion at the upper end which created a lot of oxygewn-starved but very hot fuel to be forced down the shafts. It only takes an IQ over room temperature to grasp this.

I would also like to recently point out that I came to the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job just recently. And now I go to work looking like this

Yeah, well, you have been lied to. Just learn some more about what is wrong with what the turds taught you and cheer up and learn to laugh at the ease with which you bought such a steaming pile of total crap.

 

[Relax]

Seconds to lose fluidity (aka molten) and minutes to be cool enough to touch (depending on the mass of course). Longer if sufficiently insulated (in the order of hours, not days or weeks). The generation of heat stops as soon as the metals are done reacting.



http://11-settembre.blogspot.com/2007/02/ups-on-81st-floor-of-wtc2.html

That site did one thing only for me, and that was to support my theory that the towers were planned to be demolished in 1993, I want you to note that the reinforcing done on floor 81 were both done two years before each attack.

If NIST knew about the supply of batteries there why didn't they just report that instead of the lame aluminum airplane parts? Suspicious indeed.

 

[Oystein]

Thanks, Relax, for replying to some drilling questions! Some quick thoughts:

1. This is 9/11 seeing, and hearing is believing.

Hmm this does not quite answer the question, which was "Is Youtube your main source of info?", but it seems like your answer suggests a "Yes".
You hopefully are aware that videos can be very deceptive? By means of editing (choice made by the editor about what to include, what to exclude), but also because information is passed by you so quickly without giving you an opportunity to critically examine sources, claims and such things.

2. about 4 days ago.

I hope you realize that all of us here have been at it for much longer. Together, we have seen all the videos, heard all the arguments, and considered all the claims.
I hope you are open to the possibility that you don't know enough yet.

3. oranges and apples. (1) nothing but visual and audio identification will suffice in this case. I want to see for my own eyes.

I hope you realize that watching youtube is NOT seeing with your own eyes.
Also, you need to think with your own brain!

4. I only bothered saving the link to one, but I've been to many. Here is linky

Can you remember the names of some places? Were all, or most of them, leaning towards "inside job"? If so, you must consider the possibility that you have listened to members of a fringe who support each other with their confirmation biases, and have not looked enough at the other side.

5. Yep, those who support the therm*te theory have stronger evidence than the ones supporting the official story. Evidence is ignored by majority of masses who disregard conspiracy theorists as whackos. I find that majority of people ignore evidence.

Because therm*te fits. Where jet fuel, laser guns, nukes, or acid does not. And sorry for not being able to provide a tour guide of the inside of the WTC on 9/11 to see if bombs were planted... they kind of exploded before we could do that.

Okay. Can you explain to me in greater detail, and in your own words, how and why "therm*te fits"? In particular
- What is therm*te?
- How do you think it was applied?
- Why therm*te and not more convential methods of demolition?
- What is the evidence you have for the use of therm*te?

Bill Cooper payed for it with his life. and he was a former UFO believer, we've all believed in something silly at least once in our lives. I used to believe in a magical fairylike being living in the sky and silently judging people...

Yes, and now you wised up. Do you think it is possible that your current belief in therm*te and inside job might turn out to be just another belief in magic, just like Cooper's UFO's, and your fairylike being?
Oh, and how do you know Bill Cooper payed with his life for that?! As far as I know, he payed with his life for his belief that tax evasion is not a crime and cannot be pursued by federals.

I would assume that being 70 stories above when the explosions first started it would be kind of hard to hear them after the collapse started, but as the collapse got lower and the demolition charges got nearer you would be able to hear the bangs over the collapse, and that sir, is what we are able to hear. and a rather loud bang before the firefighter asks if everyone is alright.

Well, I see a discrepancy between two of the videos you posted, and the claims you made therein:
1.) Jonathan Cole allegedly shows how thermite could be used. Now we know that he does in fact use thermite there, and cuts vertical steel there. But there is no sound of explosions!
2.) You hear explosion sounds as the south tower comes down - but thermite, as the Cole video shows, is no explosive! Yet you say what happens at the WTC lobby is the same as what happens in the Cole video.
Do you notice this internal inconsistency in your argument?

Also, I asked you "What do you hear in that video that you would not absolutely expect to hear when 110 stories of steel and concrete collapse just a couple of hundred feet away from you?". Could you please answer that question now? How do you think a collapsing scyscraper would sound if you are in the lobby of its twin tower?

First off I think a full theory is kind of pointless, all I need to know is if they were rigged or not. and they obviously were.

Well, you think it's obvious, but if it turns out that there is no explanation at all as to how they were rigged, then suddenly it's not that obvious any longer.
Also, we all here have noticed that absolutely no "inside job" proponent has ever layed out a complete and internally consistent narrative of the events of 9/11, at least nobody who thinks the towers were destroyed by means other than planes and fires.
This theory would have to account for the really obvious facts: That planes flew into the towers, that they burned heavily on many floors, that they started to deform visibly (and slowly) long before they started to collapse, the collapses of the towers initiated on the floors directly affected by fires and plane impacts, etc.

So how do you explain a demolition with explosives that started amid huge fires?
And why would you need to rig the towers all the way to the ground - gravity alone was quite sufficient to do that without further aid. It would be downright stupid to orchestrate such an overkill.



But to focus your attention, I would like to debate that therm*te issue first with you.

 

[Sam.I.Am]

That site did one thing only for me, and that was to support my theory that the towers were planned to be demolished in 1993, I want you to note that the reinforcing done on floor 81 were both done two years before each attack.

If NIST knew about the supply of batteries there why didn't they just report that instead of the lame aluminum airplane parts? Suspicious indeed.

Why on earth would someone reinforce a structure that they are planning on demolishing soon after. That's like slapping a new coat of paint on a car headed for the crusher. It's not looking so good for you IRT critical thinking skills.

NIST clarified itself in the letter at the bottom of the page. Did you read it?

 

[Relax]

Construction engineer, as i have been given to understand. Totally unfit for his job, of course. The stupid drongo doesn't even realize that his device is too cumbersome and leaves identifiable residues all over the steel where any cop or fire fighter wouldl recognize it. And the way he bangs on about the manual not being followed shows that he is useless in forensic discussions because the idiot overlooks the fact that the manual is used as a guide (it has no force of law, regardless what the mouth-breathing twooftards claim) to determine what caused a fire. What morons who swear that it has to be followed to the letter fail to grasp is that we KNEW ALREADY what caused the fire. Two big freaking aircraft running into the buildings.

Yeesh! Whadda maroooooon!

Way to refute a claim, by throwing insults at it.

Cooper is an idiot. He can't grasp why ObL would have given an interview to a journalist, but the CIA can't figure out where he was. Hello, Mister Tofu-for-brains? When the bad guys want to talk to somebody about what they want the rest of the world to do, they will find a journalist who has already shown some interest. This is not First Grade Arithmetic here, people.

Cooper is not an idiot, he's dead. Murdered.

No, it shows dust escaping from the windows on levels where the floors have alread fallen, but the wals are still in place. You can see, if you are not already mind-humped by the twoofer gurus, that the little whisps of smoke fill up with increasingly dense dust and debris. This is bass ackwards to explosive squibs, which start out at 100% and turn to little wisps.

Please I beg you, compare them to demolition controlled collapses and natural collapses.

Idiotic notion. They are reflections from broken glass and aluminum cladding.

If that's the case the entire side should've litten up.

No, you hear monsterously heavy stuff falling somewhere close by. Sound about right to someone who has heard a builidng or a side of a mountain collapse.

I hear a building collapsing AND explosions, please learn to distinguish the two, you can compare them with natural buildings collapsing, and a demolitioned one.

The elevator shafts were enclosed spaces. There was a huge explosion at the upper end which created a lot of oxygewn-starved but very hot fuel to be forced down the shafts. It only takes an IQ over room temperature to grasp this.

78 floors is a long ways to go.

Yeah, well, you have been lied to. Just learn some more about what is wrong with what the turds taught you and cheer up and learn to laugh at the ease with which you bought such a steaming pile of total crap.

I'm learning that a lot of people are idiots.