!!WARNING!! You are fat!

[RandFan]

Have you considered that maybe no solution is possible, i.e. a solution that would actually be preferable to your weight problem? Insisting that there is a solution sounds a little like wishful thinking (= woo) to me.

There are solutions that are proven effective including stomach stapling which I would like but can't afford.

However you ask a fair question and when we put aside stomach stapling the effectiveness drops significantly but there are effective programs. It would be dumb to simply assume nothing works and stick my head in the sand, IMO.

Also, there is no question given the mechanisms of hunger that science will solve the problem to a greater and greater degree. To think other wise would be woo.

 

[BPSCG]

I have lost hundreds of pounds. I'm not exagerating. I know what it takes. I've done 1, 2 and 3. Many times. It amazes me when someone honestly thinks I haven't tried something. Or that there is this little trick that will finally work. I've fought this for 20 years. I own many books, videos, programs, equipment, lifestyle philosophies, tried drugs, foods, combinations, times of eating, etc., etc., etc., and there is always someone to tell me, well duh silly, just do ________ (fill in the blank).

I've not given up but please believe me when I tell you that I'm not naive, ignorant, stupid or uneducated about weight loss. Please take me at my word that it isn't a simple proposition.

Friend of ours who was massively obese said almost exactly those words at her "Last Supper" party we threw for her a few years ago. She's not stupid - talk with her for two minutes about anything and you know that - and knows exactly how to lose weight. But she simply could not do it. She'd tried everything, but couldn't make it work. She's about 5' 3" and was well north of 300 pounds when she finally decided to have stomach reduction surgery. The weekend before her surgery, we threw a party for her with a table full of her favorite foods.

She's lost well over a hundred pounds since then. She's still overweight, and will need more surgery to remove large amounts of excess skin that's just hanging on her at this point. But she's still losing weight, and as her face is beginning to get definition, she's starting to look startlingly like a hispanic Julia Louis-Dreyfus.

Interesting thing: Since she can only eat small quantities of food now, the food she does eat has to be high-calorie and high-protein. She drinks a protein shake every day, and eats a lot of bacon. Kinda counterintuitive for someone who's trying to lose weight, but if she doesn't do that, she'll lose weight through malnutrition.

 

[The Atheist]

Pensions? Er, you might want to look at UK pension provisions. If you don't have your own plans, you're pretty much stuffed.

Oh, so the current payment of GBP4368 pa is going to be retracted? Best you apply for the MDC on your psychic powers as the government doesn't even know about it yet!

Based on the 30% obesity, if those obese people only live an extra two years each, the total cost to the government would be 131 billion pounds. Kind of diminishes the argument about 30b costs. And that's with those people creating NO medical costs.

Scepticism? What sort of argument is "if they live they might get an even more expensive illness"?

Just take a minute to think about it.

Why are almost no smokers Alzheimer's patients? Because they die too early. If we get people to live longer lives, the incidence of Alzheimer's WILL increase.

Your copying government fallacies about healthcare costs is good for the government, but no good for anything else. Economists within government are very happy that significant portions of the populace die early - it ensures the economic health of the country. Anti-obesity and anti-smoking programs are designed to appease the great unwashed who believe things without question.

 

[Kerberos]

Oh, so the current payment of GBP4368 pa is going to be retracted? Best you apply for the MDC on your psychic powers as the government doesn't even know about it yet!

Based on the 30% obesity, if those obese people only live an extra two years each, the total cost to the government would be 131 billion pounds. Kind of diminishes the argument about 30b costs. And that's with those people creating NO medical costs.
Just take a minute to think about it.

Why are almost no smokers Alzheimer's patients? Because they die too early. If we get people to live longer lives, the incidence of Alzheimer's WILL increase.

Your copying government fallacies about healthcare costs is good for the government, but no good for anything else. Economists within government are very happy that significant portions of the populace die early - it ensures the economic health of the country. Anti-obesity and anti-smoking programs are designed to appease the great unwashed who believe things without question.

Except of course that people don't die 2, 5 or 7 years earlier, some die from lung cancer when they're 40 cutting well into the productive parts of their lives and some live just as long as they would otherwise have done. Simply detracting the average loss in life expectancy from the period they would be drawing pensions is quite misleading. Also some people undoubtebly have to retire earlier due to smoking or obesity. I'm not sure if that, or the lost tax revenues are factored into the health care cost.

 

[Marc L]

So why is most of the focus on food? I think it's because there's more money to be made by selling supposedly healthy food/diets, than there is by offering physical training for fat people.

Because changing your diet is a lot easier and cheaper than increasing your exercise.

Also, in the case of obese people (as opposed to people like me, who are only slightly overweight), a change in diet is likely going to be as necessary as a change in exercise.

Marc

 

[The Atheist]

Except of course that people don't die 2, 5 or 7 years earlier, some die from lung cancer when they're 40 cutting well into the productive parts of their lives and some live just as long as they would otherwise have done. Simply detracting the average loss in life expectancy from the period they would be drawing pensions is quite misleading. Also some people undoubtebly have to retire earlier due to smoking or obesity. I'm not sure if that, or the lost tax revenues are factored into the health care cost.

Your point is fair about 40 year olds, but it is a tiny minority who die at that age.

The average loss of life expectancy through smoking's somewhere in the 5-10 year range. Here's just one of the many links avaiable. Anyway, there's a smoking thread for that stuff.

In terms of average ages, you're quite wrong, the way I put it is exactly how it works, ask an economist if you doubt me.

 

[ChristineR]

The most successful pattern for weightloss is this:

Extreme change in diet (with or without stomach surgery)
Person becomes thinner
Person finds it easier to exercise
Person begins to exercise a great deal (at least 5 hours a week)
Diet never goes back to "normal" but may become slightly less restrictive

It's damn near impossible to lose weight by exercise alone, unless you have the genes of an Olympian hidden in that fat body. To create a daily deficit of 1000 calories by exercise alone would take about three hours of walking at a pace faster than most people (at least most overweight people) can walk for even a few minutes. On the other hand, if you are currently on a burgers and fries diet, 1000 food calories down is completely doable.

If the dieter can make it to the point of doing five hours of serious exercise in one week, then he or she can loosen up on the diet a bit.

 

[The Atheist]

There are solutions that are proven effective including stomach stapling which I would like but can't afford.

However you ask a fair question and when we put aside stomach stapling the effectiveness drops significantly but there are effective programs. It would be dumb to simply assume nothing works and stick my head in the sand, IMO.

Also, there is no question given the mechanisms of hunger that science will solve the problem to a greater and greater degree. To think other wise would be woo.

Mate, I've read this thread with some interest as it's another of my pet hobby-horses and there are a couple of things I want to say to you.

First off, I owe you an apology. I mistook you and your attitude and picked you for something which you clearly aren't and dumped on you heavily. I've ended up being in the same thread as you several times since I gave you a hard time and I've found that you're actually an honest bloke with a good sense of humour and a strong moral sense. If I'd realised that previously, I would certainly have debated the issues with you instead of acting in my usual arrogant arsehole manner.

Sorry, mate; I do regret my actions and that's most unusual, for me.

Anyway, this thread is what I wanted to talk about, so, on with the show.

I'm a touch overweight - about 30 lbs - but at 6'4" neither me nor my doctor is too concerned about it. He hassles me about it, I tell him I could still throw him over his surgery roof and we both forget about it. I can, however empathise with your position as my wife's mother is morbidly obese (5' 3" and about 350 lbs) and has T2 diabetes.

My wife, on the other hand, is one of those disgusting people who can eat all day and lose weight. She was once famously asked how she kept her figure in shape. "Eating a Big Mac and large fries every day for lunch." was her truthful reply - she's a bitch as well as skinny!

The problem is simply metabolism and I fail to understand why doctors don't address this point first and foremost. We have classic examples of the metabolic rate in NZ with our Pacific Islander population being hugely over-represented in obesity statistics thanks to their genetically and historically-essential low metabolic rate. I agree with you that science/medicine should be able to solve these issues in the not-too-distant future.

I have a strong suspicion that if people realised that their weight wasn't an isssue of gluttony [in most cases] but rather one of genetics, they would actually be more likely to be able to deal with the situation than the current state, where fat people are made to feel guilty, worthless, or architects of their own destruction. The idea mooted in UK is a perfect example of what should NEVER be done - it can only increase guilt, which often leads to comfort-eating.

If stomach-stapling is an option for you, it's the one you should work towards. I've seen several people benefit immediately from the operation, including a former Prime Minister of NZ who was hugely obese when he took office. He pretty much melted before our eyes.

I have no idea how much it costs, but I imagine it ain't cheap. Would you be interested in starting a fund-raiser toward the cost of the operation? If so, please tell me and I'll try to start the ball rolling.

Cheers

Alan

 

[RandFan]

Mate, I've read this thread with some interest as it's another of my pet hobby-horses and there are a couple of things I want to say to you.

First off, I owe you an apology. I mistook you and your attitude and picked you for something which you clearly aren't and dumped on you heavily. I've ended up being in the same thread as you several times since I gave you a hard time and I've found that you're actually an honest bloke with a good sense of humour and a strong moral sense. If I'd realised that previously, I would certainly have debated the issues with you instead of acting in my usual arrogant arsehole manner.

Sorry, mate; I do regret my actions and that's most unusual, for me.

I owe you the same. I'm often an arsehole myself so I understand.

Anyway, this thread is what I wanted to talk about, so, on with the show.

I'm a touch overweight - about 30 lbs - but at 6'4" neither me nor my doctor is too concerned about it. He hassles me about it, I tell him I could still throw him over his surgery roof and we both forget about it. I can, however empathise with your position as my wife's mother is morbidly obese (5' 3" and about 350 lbs) and has T2 diabetes.

My wife, on the other hand, is one of those disgusting people who can eat all day and lose weight. She was once famously asked how she kept her figure in shape. "Eating a Big Mac and large fries every day for lunch." was her truthful reply - she's a bitch as well as skinny!

The problem is simply metabolism and I fail to understand why doctors don't address this point first and foremost. We have classic examples of the metabolic rate in NZ with our Pacific Islander population being hugely over-represented in obesity statistics thanks to their genetically and historically-essential low metabolic rate. I agree with you that science/medicine should be able to solve these issues in the not-too-distant future.

I have a strong suspicion that if people realised that their weight wasn't an isssue of gluttony [in most cases] but rather one of genetics, they would actually be more likely to be able to deal with the situation than the current state, where fat people are made to feel guilty, worthless, or architects of their own destruction. The idea mooted in UK is a perfect example of what should NEVER be done - it can only increase guilt, which often leads to comfort-eating.

If stomach-stapling is an option for you, it's the one you should work towards. I've seen several people benefit immediately from the operation, including a former Prime Minister of NZ who was hugely obese when he took office. He pretty much melted before our eyes.

I have no idea how much it costs, but I imagine it ain't cheap. Would you be interested in starting a fund-raiser toward the cost of the operation? If so, please tell me and I'll try to start the ball rolling.

Cheers

Alan

I really appreciate that.

Wow, yes I would like to start a fund-raiser. If anything it would focus me on saving. I've been tempted to go to an American hospital in another country where the costs are lower.

Many thanks,

Alan

How about that same name and both spelled correctly.

 

[The Atheist]

I owe you the same. I'm often an arsehole myself so I understand.

I really appreciate that.

Wow, yes I would like to start a fund-raiser. If anything it would focus me on saving. I've been tempted to go to an American hospital in another country where the costs are lower.

Many thanks,

Alan

How about that same name and both spelled correctly.

Cheers.

Amazing coincidence - I hardly ever see anyone who spells it the correct way!

 

[The Atheist]

Have you had a quote for costs? I rang our top hospital and costs here are about $NZ20k.

 

[Kerberos]

Your point is fair about 40 year olds, but it is a tiny minority who die at that age.

The average loss of life expectancy through smoking's somewhere in the 5-10 year range. Here's just one of the many links avaiable. Anyway, there's a smoking thread for that stuff.

In terms of average ages, you're quite wrong, the way I put it is exactly how it works, ask an economist if you doubt me.

Interesting, it was my impression that a larger potion of the lost life span was earlier in life.

 

[RandFan]

Have you had a quote for costs? I rang our top hospital and costs here are about $NZ20k.

It's been awhile since I've seen a quote. I think it is higher here. I'll check.

 

[dann]

It's been awhile since I've seen a quote. I think it is higher here. I'll check.

I hate to be the pessimist again, but ... do you have reason to believe that the operation won't make you depressed like the diets did in the past? Unless you are absolutely unique in this respect, there ought to be studies of others with similar problems who already had the operation.

 

[RandFan]

I hate to be the pessimist again, but ... do you have reason to believe that the operation won't make you depressed like the diets did in the past? Unless you are absolutely unique in this respect, there ought to be studies of others with similar problems who already had the operation.

It's a great question. I've spoken with others who had similar situations including my sister. The surgery changes you fundamentally. The stomach sends messages to the brain that it is full much sooner. It forces a change. One only need look at the statistics for success to understand that it does work. Most obese people btw suffer what I suffer. Yes, I'm confident that it will work. Not 100% but pretty close.

 

[Seismosaurus]

A year ago I weighed... well I don't actually know, because it's not easy to find weighing scales that go that high. I estimate 420 lbs. (I'm 5'11''.)

To be perfectly honest, it never bothered me that much. My weight has gradually crept up throughout my life. I could keep track of it by the milestones - having to go up another belt size... finding it harder to find clothes that fit in a normal shop... when people stopped trying to sit next to me on the bus... having to shop in outsize shops... I was developing a new roll of fat on the back of my head. I think my body was running out of places to put it. It's why I chose the nick I did when I joined this forum; the heaviest land animal.

By a year ago, I was getting big enough that I couldn't find clothes that fitted me even in fat people shops. I was starting to have trouble standing up and walking. My furniture was making alarming creaking noises when I sat or lay on it (I'm very careful about how I sit down on things).

I came to realise that if I kept on, within another couple of years I would reach a point where I wouldn't be able to go to work any more and would become essentially housebound.

I went on a variant of the Atkins diet. Difficult for me, as I am very fussy about eating meat. So for one year I have lived on burgers, sausages, cheese, eggs, and diet coke. I find it reasonably easy, because I can eat more or less as much as I like of what I do eat, and because I don't have to eat stuff like salad. I take a weekend break about every couple of months; have a few beers, chocolate, bread! Oh god, of all the things I miss bread ranks number one. Above beer even.

It's working. Since I don't know my exact starting weight I have to estimate my total weight loss; it's in the region of 120 pounds. I've lost six inches from my waist, I actually have a neck again. I can stand up without trouble. I can bend down and tie my shoelaces! It's cost me a fortune in clothes; I have been through one complete new wardrobe since January, and my second set is starting to become too big as well.

I don't get too many people laughing or shouting insults at me in the street now; once a week, maybe.

I try and do some modest exercise, now. Another 6 months and I will be able to start exercising properly, I think. I was too big before; if I had tried to run last January, things would have started snapping inside me. In a year to 18 months, I think, I will be in the region of 170 lbs.

That's my story. Just thought I would share.

 

[Beerina]

The first lawsuits against McDonald's and other fast food joints are working their way through the system.

When this started a few years ago, I thought Congress passed a law that you couldn't sue a restaraunt for making you fat. So it's a non-issue anymore, and properly so.

 

[Beerina]

Metabolism plays a huge role. Its not as though all things are equal when it comes to that

Actually, I believe this was shot down, too. Of course there are the rare cases of a messed up metabolism, but the vast, vast majority of fatsos (of which I am one) have perfectly normal metabolisms, and simply eat too much for their level of activity.

Of course, it's all about the activity. My intake is perfectly fine -- if I were working in a factory all day. I know this because during the summers in college I did exactly that and lost weight every time. But since I sit in front of a computer, I gain weight.

Think about how insidious that is -- my appetite is perfect for a physical laborer, which is the situation in which we evolved. But that's not our lifestyle now.

I wish Yahweh had done a better engineering job.

 

[Beerina]

Fat cannot be banned. Everyone needs to eat fat. Without some fat in the diet, we wouldn't be able to absorb the fat-soluble vitamins, like A, D & E.

My fine nutrition textbook says underweight people should:

Eat energy dense food
Eat regular meals daily
Eat larger portions
Eat extra snacks
Drink juice and milk
Exercise to build muscles

Geeze, you need to consult a professional. Someone like Dr. Nick Riviera:


Dr. Nick Riviera: I recommend a process of steady gorging, accompanied by assal horizontology.

Wiki page on Assal Horizontology

 

[dann]

Yes, I'm confident that it will work. Not 100% but pretty close.

I expected you to have looked into it thoroughly.
I spent a lot of time studying food allergies and other allergies when I had my problem (and I say "had", because I now only have to avoid shellfish and peanuts; small amounts of the other things that used to set off the reaction don't bother me anymore), and I saved thousands of $$ because I didn't fall for the cures that my friends recommended - even the ones that sounded as if they were based on science, but actually weren't: I can recommend other allergy sufferers that they a letter or an email to the people offering these cures, presenting themselves as skeptics and asking for more information! When they don't send an answer, you can rest assured that they are a waste of time and money!
I wish you good luck with the project!