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VP Picks 2012

Frank Newgent said:
Looked for the Medicaid quote and found this (from Peter Orszag).

According to CBO, Ryan’s plan would not reduce total health-care costs. Instead, it would increase the total....
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So health care can cost less IF you have those darn death panels?

You don't say...
 
Reaction to Ryan as VP Pick Among Least Positive Historically

PRINCETON, NJ -- Four in 10 Americans rate Mitt Romney's selection of Rep. Paul Ryan to be his running mate as either "excellent" or "pretty good," while 42% call the choice "only fair" or "poor." This even division is among the least positive reactions to a vice presidential choice Gallup has recorded in recent elections. Only George H.W. Bush's selection of Dan Quayle in 1988 generated a higher negative response, although it also generated higher positives.
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ANTPogo said:
No one is criticising Ryan for receiving SS at age 16 based on a sudden death of the family provider.

They're criticising Ryan for receiving SS at age 16 based on a sudden death of the family provider, and now as an adult working very hard to make sure no one else in the same position will be able to get the same thing.
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Shown to be a complete lie, and now...

SezMe said:
Boy, there's bold leadership for you. :rolleyes:
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ANTPogo said:
No one is criticising Ryan for receiving SS at age 16 based on a sudden death of the family provider.

They're criticising Ryan for receiving SS at age 16 based on a sudden death of the family provider, and now as an adult working very hard to make sure no one else in the same position will be able to get the same thing.
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Shown to be a complete lie....

Originally Posted by mhaze
Ryan's 2013 budget has no change to SS, but a requirement that the House and Senate submit plans to insure the continued health of SS.


and now...

SezMe said:
Boy, there's bold leadership for you. :rolleyes:
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Frank Newgent said:
He received survivor's benefits. I've no problem with that... both my parents were dead by the age at which Ryan suffered his father's death, and I collected (in all likelyhood) more than he ever did in such benefits.

That money came in mighty handy.

However, I am not a long-time Washington politician who has characterized Social Security as a Ponzi scheme, and working to undo the system from which I personally benefited.

To do such a thing while having reaped for years the benefits of such a system seems odd to me.
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This is a silly line of reasoning. It is akin to saying that someone who wants a single payer health care system is acting odd if they buy insurance. Even if you think that a system can be changed for the better, it would not be sensible to deny the reality of the existing system.
 
Eddie Dane said:
I don't want to derail here, but Dan Quayle conjures up questions about the logic behind VP selection.

Bush was a very competent president, yet picked that utter doofus as VP.

It still makes me go WHY?

Why did Kennedy have a heavyweight like LBJ, yet others go for people I wouldn't hire to walk my dog?
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I've wondered the same thing.

Not in the case of the selection of Ryan though, that makes a clear and obvious political statement.
 
respect said:
Frank Newgent said:
He received survivor's benefits. I've no problem with that... both my parents were dead by the age at which Ryan suffered his father's death, and I collected (in all likelyhood) more than he ever did in such benefits.

That money came in mighty handy.

However, I am not a long-time Washington politician who has characterized Social Security as a Ponzi scheme, and working to undo the system from which I personally benefited.

To do such a thing while having reaped for years the benefits of such a system seems odd to me.
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This is a silly line of reasoning. It is akin to saying that someone who wants a single payer health care system is acting odd if they buy insurance. Even if you think that a system can be changed for the better, it would not be sensible to deny the reality of the existing system.
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Your analogy doesn't parse.

To borrow your example it's more like somebody who has enjoyed the benefits of a single payer health care system is acting odd if they, later, work towards undoing that same single payer system.

Though all hypothetical... just seems hypocritical to play the part, then hate it.
 
Frank Newgent said:
Your analogy doesn't parse.

To borrow your example it's more like somebody who has enjoyed the benefits of a single payer health care system is acting odd if they, later, work towards undoing that same single payer system.

Though all hypothetical... just seems hypocritical to play the part, then hate it.
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But what better person to intelligently criticize the system than one who has been involved with it?
 
Frank Newgent said:
Your analogy doesn't parse.

To borrow your example it's more like somebody who has enjoyed the benefits of a single payer health care system is acting odd if they, later, work towards undoing that same single payer system.

Though all hypothetical... just seems hypocritical to play the part, then hate it.
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It is that they enjoy the benefits of having insurance while trying to change the system. Again, it would be foolish of them to not take advantage the existing system even if they believe that there are superior alternatives.
 
respect said:
Frank Newgent said:
Your analogy doesn't parse.

To borrow your example it's more like somebody who has enjoyed the benefits of a single payer health care system is acting odd if they, later, work towards undoing that same single payer system.

Though all hypothetical... just seems hypocritical to play the part, then hate it.
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It is that they enjoy the benefits of having insurance while trying to change the system. Again, it would be foolish of them to not take advantage the existing system even if they believe that there are superior alternatives.
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http://news.yahoo.com/ryan-denied-stimulus-while-quietly-seeking-210943599.html
 
respect said:
I am not sure why you think Ryan being a liar and/or hypocrite about something else would support your previous argument. Do you think he should risk jail time and stop paying FICA taxes too? Or should he just refuse any benefits?
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You are acknowledging Ryan being a liar/hypocrite when it comes to stimulus money?

As for the other... never suggested he hadn't/shouldn't have paid FICA. Where'd that come from?

Simply that he seems philosophically inclined to deny entitlements which he, himself, one received. And, as having come from a somewhat moneyed background, really didn't need to pay the college costs it was intended for.

Oh, well...
 
Frank Newgent said:
You are acknowledging Ryan being a liar/hypocrite when it comes to stimulus money?

As for the other... never suggested he hadn't/shouldn't have paid FICA. Where'd that come from?

Simply that he seems philosophically inclined to deny entitlements which he, himself, one received. And, as having come from a somewhat moneyed background, really didn't need to pay the college costs it was intended for.

Oh, well...
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The point should have been obvious. No one thinks that everything is perfect but still has to partake in the existing systems as they are even if they want to change some things. Doing so is not hypocritical.
 
respect said:
The point should have been obvious. No one thinks that everything is perfect but still has to partake in the existing systems as they are even if they want to change some things. Doing so is not hypocritical.
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To receive Social Security survivor's benefits as he did... the benefits would have to have been applied for. Applying for such a benefit is not a requirement.

Sorry to have to point this out respect.
 
respect said:
So?
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Stop being disingenuous. I will spell it out for you once:

It illustrates the "I got mine, screw everyone who comes after me" mentality that Ryan embodies quite perfectly. Such a selfish mindset is inappropriate to have holding public office of any sort, much less sitting in the VP's chair.

Further, the fact that Romney selected him reflects quite poorly on Romney; it indicates that Romney really is completely out of touch with what's happening in the real world, the one that isn't pillow-plush-padded with millions of dollars available to take care of any slightest inconvenience.

The rest of us have had to work for a living, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that either Romney or Ryan have even the slightest comprehension of what doing so is actually like -- and their "I got mine, screw you" policies reflect that quite effectively.

Personally, I can't think of another (practical) choice Romney could've made that would have made it easier to mobilize the Obama voters this November.
 
remirol said:
Stop being disingenuous. I will spell it out for you once:

It illustrates the "I got mine, screw everyone who comes after me" mentality that Ryan embodies quite perfectly. Such a selfish mindset is inappropriate to have holding public office of any sort, much less sitting in the VP's chair.

Further, the fact that Romney selected him reflects quite poorly on Romney; it indicates that Romney really is completely out of touch with what's happening in the real world, the one that isn't pillow-plush-padded with millions of dollars available to take care of any slightest inconvenience.

The rest of us have had to work for a living, and there is absolutely no reason to believe that either Romney or Ryan have even the slightest comprehension of what doing so is actually like -- and their "I got mine, screw you" policies reflect that quite effectively.

Personally, I can't think of another (practical) choice Romney could've made that would have made it easier to mobilize the Obama voters this November.
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That might be what you are on about, but it isn't what Frank Newgent said and what I was responding to, his argument could be restated as, "Ryan has received benefits from Social Security which makes him a hypocrite for being critical of it" which is a very silly argument that could be applied almost infinitely. He might as well just say that Ryan is a hypocrite for being critical of government at all because he is part of the government.

Although I am a bit curious why you say Romney and Ryan have no idea what it is like to work for a living? Are you trying to suggest that neither has ever had a job? There are much more coherent reasons to be critical of both.
 
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