Voluntary BDSM or Aggravated Assault?

[Ivor the Engineer]

So my assessment of your statement was correct then.

The answer, by the way, is a resounding yes.

Well I should have expected that from someone with your background. I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that outside the group that includes people who are into swinging, prostitution and/or acting in porn films (i.e. the vast majority), having sex with strangers, particularly those that you don't like very much, is not as good as sex with people you do know, like and possibly love.

Wow... The amount of self contradiction in here is astounding. Do you even realize what you've said?

Would you suggest this course of action for any other activity? Rock climbing, flying a plane, driving a car, etc.? If not, why not? I swear, the amount of special pleading you're doing here is just mind boggling.

It's amazing we're still around given how complex sex is. Clearly we need experts to tell us what feels nice and what gets us off because no one could possibly figure it out for him or herself.

 

[bookitty]

Oh, and this magically happens the second they turn 16?



Nobody is forcing anyone to do anything, you dumbass.



And there isn't a 'power imbalance' when a 16 year old girl is gang-banged and used like a human sex toy by five 40 year old men while she's restrained and unable to move freely? Color me surprised.



What is lost is the ability to have consensual sex with 15 year old. Usually if one still does engage a 15 year old in sex then one is usually punished by this. Sometimes this punishment draconian like in that disgusting bastion of immorality that you come from.



And what if that 15 year old doesn't think that other teenagers are attractive? What if that 15 year old feels much more comfortable with a 35 year old man? What if that 15 year old finds the boyish bodies and personalities that his or her fellow teenagers have is a turnoff?

You honestly don't seem to give a **** about what that 15 year old wants.



Why the hell should one 'find' a 16 year old instead of a willing 15 year old who actually wants to have sex?



And this risk ceases to exist the second they turn 16?



I'm pretty sure 5 years in jail VS no jail time is a pretty huge benefit for someone who chooses to engage in consensual sex with a 15 year old, not that you care about any sort of societal benefit or the wellbeing of the people involved.

You know, let's just put the age of consent at 22. I'm sure there are plenty of 21 year olds who, due to to their relatively young age and little life experience compared to 50 year olds for example, are so vulnerable to abuse and exploitation. Surely throwing people in jail for years for having consensual sex with one is going to make the world a far better place for everyone involved. I mean, if a 21 year old came on to you and wanted to have sex you could just say no and go and find a 22 year old instead, right? Nothing is lost.

See this is the problem when you don't follow the thread and just reply to one post at a time. I have already said that there is no magic age and that any line drawn will be arbitrary. There is NO perfect age of consent, there never will be. Yet the line needs to be drawn somewhere because teens are vulnerable. They are transitioning and still have a lot to learn.

I chose 16 because that is when we start letting teens take control of their own life. That is the age when they can drive in the US, it is a starter drinking age in many countries, etc.

You seem to think that all sex between a 15 year old and an adult is kittens and rainbows if the 15 year old asks for it. I haven't seen any proof that this is the case. However, there are numerous studies that show a link between increased depression and early sexual activity, greater academic scores with teens who wait, an increase in teen STD's and a slowly rising teen pregnancy rate. We also know that the human brain continues to develop emotionally into adulthood and that engaging in activity that is highly emotional before you are ready for it can have lasting effects.

If early sexual activity has negative consequences, how can this be improved by increasing the number of potential partners to adults who view teens as nothing more than a sexual outlet?

You are so terribly concerned that a 15 year old have the freedom to engage in sex and yet blithely dismissive of the potential outcome.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

See this is the problem when you don't follow the thread and just reply to one post at a time. I have already said that there is no magic age and that any line drawn will be arbitrary. There is NO perfect age of consent, there never will be. Yet the line needs to be drawn somewhere because teens are vulnerable. They are transitioning and still have a lot to learn.

I chose 16 because that is when we start letting teens take control of their own life. That is the age when they can drive in the US, it is a starter drinking age in many countries, etc.

You seem to think that all sex between a 15 year old and an adult is kittens and rainbows if the 15 year old asks for it. I haven't seen any proof that this is the case. However, there are numerous studies that show a link between increased depression and early sexual activity, greater academic scores with teens who wait, an increase in teen STD's and a slowly rising teen pregnancy rate. We also know that the human brain continues to develop emotionally into adulthood and that engaging in activity that is highly emotional before you are ready for it can have lasting effects.

If early sexual activity has negative consequences, how can this be improved by increasing the number of potential partners to adults who view teens as nothing more than a sexual outlet?

You are so terribly concerned that a 15 year old have the freedom to engage in sex and yet blithely dismissive of the potential outcome.

Don't let facts get in the way of ideology.

So long as one 15 year old is having the BDSM sex she wants there's no reason to worry about the social, physical and emotional consequences for many more teens engaging in (extreme) sexual practices with adults.

 

[JFrankA]

Well I should have expected that from someone with your background. I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that outside the group that includes people who are into swinging, prostitution and/or acting in porn films (i.e. the vast majority), having sex with strangers, particularly those that you don't like very much, is not as good as sex with people you do know, like and possibly love.

Again, you're wrong. You missed my post and 23_Tauri's post when we specifically said that it's just not true.

Sometimes, it's much more fun and satisfying to have sex with someone you don't know, so that you are just experiencing the fun of just sex.

ETA: Besides, I should have expected that retort from someone with your background. I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that outside the group that includes people who are not into swinging, nor prostitution and/or acting in porn films (i.e. a minority), having sex with only someone you love, has no clue how sex really works.

It's amazing we're still around given how complex sex is. Clearly we need experts to tell us what feels nice and what gets us off because no one could possibly figure it out for him or herself.

It does take time. There are times when I have sex with someone and the reaction is "where did you learn to do THAT?"

....To me, there is nothing better than getting that "WTF did you just do to me....? DO IT AGAIN!" look from a woman.

 

[23_Tauri]

Well I should have expected that from someone with your background. I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that outside the group that includes people who are into swinging, prostitution and/or acting in porn films (i.e. the vast majority), having sex with strangers, particularly those that you don't like very much, is not as good as sex with people you do know, like and possibly love.

But that brief attempt at character assassination of other forum member still skirts around the fact that that is not what you said. You said that emotional intimacy made ok sex into great sex.

Based on their direct, personal experience, some other posters have said that:
emotional intimacy + ok sex = emotional intimacy + ok sex
and that:
emotional intimacy + ok sex ≠ great sex, because great sex isn't a factor of whether or not there's emotional intimacy present, which is what you were implying with your post. However the two are not entirely mutually exclusive and can occur alongside each other. Like pepper and steak.

I'd even go as far to say that emotional intimacy can get in the way of great sex.

It's amazing we're still around given how complex sex is.

Putting your dick in a woman and getting her pregnant is not complex and is why so many of us are still here. But that ain't great sex.

Clearly we need experts to tell us what feels nice and what gets us off because no one could possibly figure it out for him or herself.

Well, a lot of people don't figure out the secret of really great sex. Again, that's not quite the same thing has knowing what feels nice.

 

[23_Tauri]

Don't let facts get in the way of ideology.

So long as one 15 year old is having the BDSM sex she wants there's no reason to worry about the social, physical and emotional consequences for many more teens engaging in (extreme) sexual practices with adults.

Just a point of clarification, the young woman in the OP was 16, and of the age of consent, not 15.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

Again, you're wrong. You missed my post and 23_Tauri's post when we specifically said that it's just not true.

Sometimes, it's much more fun and satisfying to have sex with someone you don't know, so that you are just experiencing the fun of just sex.

You really should read posts before replying to them. Which group are you in?

It does take time. There are times when I have sex with someone and the reaction is "where did you learn to do THAT?"

....To me, there is nothing better than getting that "WTF did you just do to me....? DO IT AGAIN!" look from a woman.

Not everyone is as bothered about exploring every kink they might be into if they gave it a go. For many this is probably good thing because it stops different sexual preferences becoming an issue in the relationship, some of which the other person may find disturbing or revolting.

In fact, having a wide range of desired sexual behaviours makes it less likely any two people would be sexually "compatible", since unless they had very similar tastes the overlap would be frustratingly small for both of them.

Probably better for couples to figure out what they like together.

 

[NewtonTrino]

Frankly Ivor comes off as so clueless about sex that the thread is almost pointless.

Ivor, you're way outclassed here by people that actually have significant sexual experience. You might want to listen instead of spew.

 

[jiggeryqua]

I'll take that as a 'no', which is why you don't understand what's wrong with your analogy.

I'll take that as a 'I have no other means of feeling superior other than repeatedly pointing out that I understand something you don't. By refusing to educate you, I ensure that my feeling of superiority lasts longer.'

If there is some fault in the analogy (beyond that fault of all analogies: that they are necessarily not identical to the thing being analogised), please, I humbly implore you, educate us. If it helps, I'm a quick learner and a good teacher - I'll pass it on, and you will have made the world a better place, rather than just feeling like a better person.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

But that brief attempt at character assassination of other forum member

<snip>

What?

I'm going to bed.

Goodnight.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

I'll take that as a 'I have no other means of feeling superior other than repeatedly pointing out that I understand something you don't. By refusing to educate you, I ensure that my feeling of superiority lasts longer.'

If there is some fault in the analogy (beyond that fault of all analogies: that they are necessarily not identical to the thing being analogised), please, I humbly implore you, educate us. If it helps, I'm a quick learner and a good teacher - I'll pass it on, and you will have made the world a better place, rather than just feeling like a better person.

One's personal experience is often a very poor way to infer, well, anything about other people or things for a variety of reasons. In this case your sexual history is not a random sample of men and/or women; it's a strongly biased sample of people and experiences and your interpretation of how good or bad the sex was is your personal subjective opinion.

 

[JFrankA]

What?

I'm going to bed.

.....alone....?

Goodnight.

Night!

 

[JFrankA]

You really should read posts before replying to them. Which group are you in?

Which on are you in?

Not everyone is as bothered about exploring every kink they might be into if they gave it a go. For many this is probably good thing because it stops different sexual preferences becoming an issue in the relationship, some of which the other person may find disturbing or revolting.

Funny, I never said anything about a "kink"? You do know that there are plenty of "vanilla" sexual things to do that people haven't experienced.

In fact, having a wide range of desired sexual behaviours makes it less likely any two people would be sexually "compatible", since unless they had very similar tastes the overlap would be frustratingly small for both of them.

You really don't understand what you are talking about, do you? My girlfriend and I have different, as you put it, "kinks". Some very different. We've learned to meld them, and in some cases, I've adopted some of hers and she's picked up some of mine.

Probably better for couples to figure out what they like together.

Probably. But it doesn't always happen between couples who are in love. Case in point: my ex-wife, who at the time I loved very much, didn't want to do what I asked.

Love doesn't mean that the sex is going to be good, nor that the person who loves you will do what you like, either.

 

[23_Tauri]

One's personal experience is often a very poor way to infer, well, anything about other people or things for a variety of reasons. In this case your sexual history is not a random sample of men and/or women; it's a strongly biased sample of people and experiences and your interpretation of how good or bad the sex was is your personal subjective opinion.

I never knew there was an objective measure of whether sex is good or bad.

 

[tesscaline]

Well I should have expected that from someone with your background. I'm going out on a limb here and suggest that outside the group that includes people who are into swinging, prostitution and/or acting in porn films (i.e. the vast majority), having sex with strangers, particularly those that you don't like very much, is not as good as sex with people you do know, like and possibly love.

Ivor... It's junk like this that gets you put on ignore you know. That was very much the exact definition of an ad hominem, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

It's amazing we're still around given how complex sex is. Clearly we need experts to tell us what feels nice and what gets us off because no one could possibly figure it out for him or herself.

Reproducing isn't difficult. Sex is not difficult. GREAT sex, is difficult. And yeah, having a bit of instruction from someone more skilled and experienced with it can be really useful. If you're really dense enough that you are going to continue denying that, I really don't know what's left to say on the matter.

 

[bookitty]

Don't let facts get in the way of ideology.

So long as one 15 year old is having the BDSM sex she wants there's no reason to worry about the social, physical and emotional consequences for many more teens engaging in (extreme) sexual practices with adults.

She was 16 and therefore legal. I have said that it makes me uncomfortable, that I wouldn't want my niece to engage in the same thing but that it was legal and therefore no one should be punished. I also commended the young lady for taking control of her own sexuality so thoroughly beforehand.

I am not condoning her behavior, I am only saying that there should not be any legal consequences. Even by my argument which places the age of consent at 16.

 

[23_Tauri]

Ivor... It's junk like this that gets you put on ignore you know. That was very much the exact definition of an ad hominem, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I second this. What you said was really crass and hurtful to people here, Ivor. Please don't do it again.

 

[Ivor the Engineer]

FFS. I give up.

As usual a thread on sex is taken over by the usual crowd who think having lots of kinky sex with lots of different people qualifies them to be able to comment on what should be considered good sex for everyone else.

Back to SMM&T.

Goodbye, I hope we don't meet again.

 

[Arcade22]

You seem to think that all sex between a 15 year old and an adult is kittens and rainbows if the 15 year old asks for it.

I never claimed that.

I haven't seen any proof that this is the case. However, there are numerous studies that show a link between increased depression and early sexual activity, greater academic scores with teens who wait, an increase in teen STD's and a slowly rising teen pregnancy rate. We also know that the human brain continues to develop emotionally into adulthood and that engaging in activity that is highly emotional before you are ready for it can have lasting effects.

Yes and? Do you honestly think that throwing people in jail is going to make the situation better for the people involved?!

If early sexual activity has negative consequences, how can this be improved by increasing the number of potential partners to adults who view teens as nothing more than a sexual outlet?

Please show any evidence of that having the age of consent at 15 rather than 16 would lead to this. The age of consent ranges from 16 to 18 in America yet i could swear that "teen" porn is pretty *********** popular in the USA.

You are so terribly concerned that a 15 year old have the freedom to engage in sex and yet blithely dismissive of the potential outcome.

I'm more concerned about immoral people like you who seem more than willing to destroy other peoples lives because you're 'scared about the risks'.

 

[NewtonTrino]

FFS. I give up.

As usual a thread on sex is taken over by the usual crowd who think having lots of kinky sex with lots of different people qualifies them to be able to comment on what should be considered good sex for everyone else.

Back to SMM&T.

Goodbye, I hope we don't meet again.

Yet another thread where the prudes come in and try to ruin it for everyone else and apply their incredibly limited sexual experience to a topic they know nothing about.

Good riddance.