Volcanic Ash Causing European Travel Problems

[catsmate]

I was thinking more of our new Vulcan over-lords, coming to us Earthlings in our hour of need with their highly-developed vulcanologist* skills.

Footnote: I have been informed since my earlier post that it is a correct alternative spelling to spell volcanologist with a 'u', however I'm not going to let a small idiosyncrasy of the English language stand in the way of a joke (especially when it's Star Trek related )

It is. Coming from the Roman god Vulcan/Vulcanus. Indeed I would go so far as to say it's the correct way to describe a student of, or expert with, volcanoes; with volcanologist as a modern corruption. Certainly when I was at college the term volcanologist was never used.
Interestingly neither Firefox's spellchecker no Words recognises "volcanologist". But then they're not happy about "recognises" either.....

 

[SnidelyW]

OKAY- so MY question, sitting in North America, for the Europeans, is would YOU take a flight through the volcanic ash cloud?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano

It seems KLM, Air France, Lufthansa, and Austrian Airlines sent up test flights at varying altitudes, and reported no anomalies, and no damage to their aircraft.

In 1989, a KLM Boeing 747 that flew through a volcanic ash cloud above Alaska temporarily lost all four motors. The motors restarted at a lower altitude and the plane eventually landed safely.¹
I'm wondering how many people would be eager to get on board a flight through the ash cloud, and risk it. Also, what do you think is the driving force behind this- passenger safety or getting the income stream back online as quickly as possible?

1. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano

 

[Childlike Empress]

Medwedew doesn't mind - he flew from Moscow to Krakow this morning to attend Kacyinski's funeral and may just have returned. No restrictions in russian airspace including Kaliningrad.

 

[SnidelyW]

I'm also wondering if the airlines would ask passengers to sign a 'volcanic ash crash waiver' that would absolve them from any risk if the plane did, indeed, drop out of the sky.

I'm only half kidding, actually.

 

[Toke]

I wonder when planes will start flying at lower ash free altitudes?
It will cost a fortune in fuel and limit range/cargo capacity, but will be worth it for some applications.
Are the small piston engine crafts having brisk business as taxi planes?

 

[Chaos]

I wonder when planes will start flying at lower ash free altitudes?
It will cost a fortune in fuel and limit range/cargo capacity, but will be worth it for some applications.
Are the small piston engine crafts having brisk business as taxi planes?

Apparently. There is a small airport in Egelsbach, near where I live, which reportedly is doing lively business, and showing the appropriate degree of schadenfreude towards their big and largely closed-down competition in Frankfurt.

 

[Toke]

Apparently. There is a small airport in Egelsbach, near where I live, which reportedly is doing lively business, and showing the appropriate degree of schadenfreude towards their big and largely closed-down competition in Frankfurt.

No major surprise.

Do they have a big sign up.
"We are still flying" or such

 

[commandlinegamer]

If this lasts for several weeks, or even months, how likely is it that airlines will go bankrupt? Might they be (part) nationalised to prevent them failing, in a similar manner to the banks?

 

[mummymonkey]

Strikes me there is a big difference between the incidents that happened previously and now. The current "cloud" is nothing of the sort. It's more a barely discernable haze. Massive over-reaction in my view.

I wondered how long it would be before the airlines started squeeling.

 

[shandyjan]

Here is another view on flying though volcanic ash. It sums up the above video (which is a three parter and contains more action than most action movies) beautifully.

Thanks for the link, and the last part of it would be enough for me. I'd rather have overreaction than the opposite any day!
And in this episode that Akimar1 linked to..that was just a thin layer of cloud!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxhiJnhI-p4

 

[Travis]

Strikes me there is a big difference between the incidents that happened previously and now. The current "cloud" is nothing of the sort. It's more a barely discernable haze. Massive over-reaction in my view.

I wondered how long it would be before the airlines started squeeling.

The 747 that lost all its engines didn't see anything either.

 

[SnidelyW]

Just in case anyone out there thinks there has only been ONE aircraft affected by an ash cloud, I quote from a USGS (United States Geological Survey) document;

Along North Pacific air routes, some of the busiest in the world, at least 15 aircraft (including KLM Flight 867) have been damaged since 1980 by flying through volcanic ash clouds. In the same period, there have been 80 such encounters worldwide, causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damage and lost revenue.

¹
So, one would could assume the airlines have measurement data from those incidents to offer some sort of guideline on the accepable amount of volcanic ash they can safely fly through- or- is the safe amount zero?

1.http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs030-97/

 

[SnidelyW]

The 747 that lost all its engines didn't see anything either.

Actually, Travis, the transcript of the cockpit communication of KLM 867 says differently.

Here is the transcript of the pertinent conversation between the KLM pilot and Anchorage Center;

"PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 HEAVY IS REACHING {FLIGHT} LEVEL 250 HEADING 140”

ANCHORAGE CENTER - “OKAY, DO YOU HAVE GOOD SIGHT ON THE ASH PLUME AT THIS TIME?”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “YEA, IT’S JUST CLOUDY IT COULD BE ASHES. IT’S JUST A LITTLE BROWNER THAN THE NORMAL CLOUD.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “WE HAVE TO GO LEFT NOW… IT’S SMOKY IN THE COCKPIT AT THE MOMENT SIR.”

ANCHORAGE CENTER – “KLM 867 HEAVY, ROGER, LEFT AT YOUR DISCRETION.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “CLIMBING TO {FLIGHT} LEVEL 390, WE’RE IN A BLACK CLOUD, HEADING 130.”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 WE HAVE FLAME OUT ALL ENGINES AND WE ARE DESCENDING NOW!”

ANCHORAGE CENTER – “KLM 867 HEAVY ANCHORAGE?”

PILOT KLM B747 – “KLM 867 HEAVY WE ARE DESCENDING NOW … WE ARE IN A FALL!”

PILOT KLM B-747 – “KLM 867 WE NEED ALL THE ASSISTANCE YOU HAVE SIR. GIVE US RADAR VECTORS PLEASE!” ¹
So, it seems KLM 867 had severe volcanic ash cloud issues after all.

This is a quote from CAPTAIN TERRY MCVENES, EXECUTIVE AIR SAFETY CHAIRMAN, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL, before the
COMMITTEE ON COMMERCE, SCIENCE, AND TRANSPORTATION SUBCOMMITTEE ON DISASTER PREVENTION AND PREDICTION,
U.S. SENATE, MARCH 16, 2006;

"Commercial turbojet aircraft are certified with multiple redundant systems to prevent total system failures. Yet even they can be rendered helpless by volcanic ash. Therefore, detection, prediction and dissemination strategies are essential to avoid the hazard. Either we will identify a turning point in our understanding of the volcanic hazards and the impacts on aviation, or we will continue on our present course and accept the hazards of the encounters that we have reviewed. Continuing on our present course may produce fatal results."²
1.http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/testimony/2006/TM_3-16-06.htm
2. ibid

 

[funk de fino]

Medwedew doesn't mind - he flew from Moscow to Krakow this morning to attend Kacyinski's funeral and may just have returned. No restrictions in russian airspace including Kaliningrad.

Remind me why he had to fly to that funeral?

 

[ThatSoundAgain]

If this lasts for several weeks, or even months, how likely is it that airlines will go bankrupt? Might they be (part) nationalised to prevent them failing, in a similar manner to the banks?

Talks are in the making in Scandinavia regarding just that. An estimate earlier put the losses past $130 million in Denmark alone. That's from four days of this situation.

Sweden and Norway have let up their grounding of planes, the Danish one still stands until further notice.

 

[BenBurch]

I think that planes will resume operations and fly until there is an incident.

 

[BenBurch]

By pre-dawn light, the volcano seems to have quieted down significantly;

http://eldgos.mila.is/eyjafjallajokull-fra-thorolfsfelli/

 

[BenBurch]

Iceland met office says;

IMO's radar near Keflavik has not detected the plume from Eyjafjallajökull since 08 o'clock this morning, which implies that it is below 10,000 feet (3 km).

There are no reports on ash this morning. Seismic tremor has been ongoing and is at a strong level this morning.

No flood has been reported. A gauging station near the Markarfljót bridge is being improved and a team from IMO is investigating floodmarks and flood elevation to measure the spread of the flood from Gígjökull on the first day of the eruption, 21 April.

 

[Skwinty]

[FONT=arial,helvetica,geneva]Ash Connection Probed In U.K. Crash[/FONT]

Authorities in England are investigating whether volcanic ash had anything to do with the crash of a light plane in Hampshire. Two people died when the aircraft crashed and burned in a field, well away from buildings or other people. Although thousands of airline flights have been cancelled by the ash cloud from a volcano in Iceland, stranding millions of passengers, there are apparently no restrictions on uncontrolled airspace, although the Civil Aviation Authority has warned pilots and owners of light aircraft not to fly. A Hampshire police spokesman said ash will be considered as a possible cause. "It is too early to say whether ash was a factor but it will form part of the investigation," the unnamed spokesman told news services in the U.K.

http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/1611-full.html

 

[Skwinty]

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1004/icevolcano_fulle_big.jpg

Amazing picture!!