VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

[VisionFromFeeling]

Isn't it bit strange that EVERY TIME you fail a test, you actually didn't fail in your mind, you just forgot to tell us?

That happened with the kidney, with Wayne, and now, apparently, with the pills. Over and over again your misses and failures are rationalised by you "knowing" but not saying out loud, for some reason known only to yourself.

Oh if you only knew that I did detect a missing left kidney but wouldn't report it! If only you knew! I really did detect it! I just have to reproduce the results at the test.

 

[wardenclyffe]

I wonder what her reference sample for the interior of a carrot was. She seemed to have no trouble identifying its effects on the body. I have no idea what kind of reference sample she could have had since she discovered previously unknown effects. With the pill samples, the effects are known, she even knew the names of the drugs. I don't get it. She discovers new effects from carrots, but it should be far easier to "discover" what is already known about crushed pills. Why is this so hard?

Ward

 

[volatile]

I wonder what her reference sample for the interior of a carrot was. She seemed to have no trouble identifying its effects on the body. I have no idea what kind of reference sample she could have had since she discovered previously unknown effects. With the pill samples, the effects are known, she even knew the names of the drugs. I don't get it. She discovers new effects from carrots, but it should be far easier to "discover" what is already known about crushed pills. Why is this so hard?

Ward

Or when she got "stoned" by looking at cannabis...

 

[Agatha]

Even if two substances were too similar to distinguish, VfF could easily have identified the other three.... couldn't she?

A problem, as I see it, with the missing kidney test is that it may not be easy to find willing volunteers (previously unknown to VfF) who are missing a kidney.

 

[Kariboo]

I did look at the medicine samples and wrote down the medical effects I perceived from them based on their vibrational information. I then looked up the supposed medical effects of the given compounds and found that just as I had perceived, two pairs were similar. I have not failed a test simply because I have not completed a test.

Actually only one pair is similar (ibuprofen and aspirin) even though they have a completely different chemical structure,-RS)-2-(4-isobutylphenyl)propanoic acid C13H18O2 vs 2-acetoxybenzoic acid C9H8O4- which you say you can detect by just looking at the colors of the molecule. The other 3 are distinctly different in their use and working (f.i. one makes you drowsy, one stimulates your nervous system)

Regardless, failure to take/complete a test is failure. I don't think you can graduate by default if you never take a test. Reasoning that if you never actually failed a test you should therefore graduate.

Also, about this whole 'main claim' thing. As long as you claim on being able to do things it doesn't matter what your 'main claim' is. It matters that you claim it at all. Can you imagine going on a job interview and refusing to show any proof of what you wrote down in your CV except what you consider to be the main claim of your CV. "Yes, I know I wrote down I can use office and speak 3 foreign languages but I am not going to show you proof of that since my main claim is that I have a GED". If that behavior wouldn't work in the real world, why do you think it would fly here?

Either claim and proof or drop it from your website.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I suffer from more than just from migraines... I insist I get put in front of the line.

I knew you would say something! Based on your offers of meeting me in haunted motel rooms I knew you would be interested in my offers for attempted migraine treatment, where I described it to LightinDarkness as,

If you want we can meet in a public place for a coffee or something like that just to get to know each other a little bit first. And if you prefer I can get us a room someplace else. Heh, but strictly professional of course so don't try anything. (...) All you need to do is to sit someplace comfortable. I might dim the lights. (...) The third part might involve a gentle massage on your head and neck with my fingertips.

I knew that would make you think you had migraines!

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

I wonder what her reference sample for the interior of a carrot was. She seemed to have no trouble identifying its effects on the body. I have no idea what kind of reference sample she could have had since she discovered previously unknown effects. With the pill samples, the effects are known, she even knew the names of the drugs. I don't get it. She discovers new effects from carrots, but it should be far easier to "discover" what is already known about crushed pills. Why is this so hard?

Ward

Because two of the medicines had similar effects to one another, and another two had similar effects to one another. Two pairs of medicines were difficult to distinguish and to assign the medicinal names.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Or when she got "stoned" by looking at cannabis...

Oh that was so funny, just from looking at a scanning electron microscopic image on the computer! I also felt strong numbing effects in my lungs when I looked at the drawn molecular structure of codeine before I knew what its medicinal effects should be. And I feel that it is the ether oxygen that does it (the O in the middle left). I can not look at this molecular structure because I feel it so strongly in my lungs.

A problem, as I see it, with the missing kidney test is that it may not be easy to find willing volunteers (previously unknown to VfF) who are missing a kidney.

Actually it seems that the IIG thinks they will be able to find a couple of persons who are missing a kidney! See what they said.

Actually only one pair is similar (ibuprofen and aspirin) even though they have a completely different chemical structure,-RS)-2-(4-isobutylphenyl)propanoic acid C13H18O2 vs 2-acetoxybenzoic acid C9H8O4- which you say you can detect by just looking at the colors of the molecule. The other 3 are distinctly different in their use and working (f.i. one makes you drowsy, one stimulates your nervous system)

Two pairs have similar effects. I don't have the list at this moment, and I am getting ready to have the kidney detection test.

Also, about this whole 'main claim' thing. As long as you claim on being able to do things it doesn't matter what your 'main claim' is. It matters that you claim it at all. Can you imagine going on a job interview and refusing to show any proof of what you wrote down in your CV except what you consider to be the main claim of your CV. "Yes, I know I wrote down I can use office and speak 3 foreign languages but I am not going to show you proof of that since my main claim is that I have a GED". If that behavior wouldn't work in the real world, why do you think it would fly here?

The perceptions remain just experiences until proven otherwise. I am describing synesthetic experiences, and am testing the one of medical perceptions for correlation with reality.

Either claim and proof or drop it from your website.

They are descriptions of experiences, and not stated as real.

 

[Uncayimmy]

I will investigate how well I do with screens once the IIG asks me to.

You didn't answer my question. You said many months ago that you would test with a screen, but you have not. Why not? You also wrote on your website that you learned from F-A-C-T that YOU need to be responsible for getting yourself tested. Why are you now sitting on your hands waiting for the IIG?

I have submitted a claim for testing, and it is not up to you to choose something else for me to test.

Please stop playing the victim.

The kidney detection test is not expensive, time-consuming or cumbersome.

Compared to beakers of salt and sugar water, it most certainly is.

Well my personal experiences are not available for a private tour by you. Nor am I to be expected to let people into my home.

What are you talking about? I used a metaphor of a wealthy person proving her wealth, and all you get out of it is that people want to enter your home? Wow!

I have submitted a claim for testing, everything else should not concern you. I have finally submitted a testable, falsifiable claim, and all you can do is still be dissatisfied. Maybe that's just a state of mind you have?

I do not believe the IIG test will ever take place. Besides, your other claims are still on the table. They need to be tested or retracted.

On the contrary, you have not been here where I live to see what I do or don't do. Your analogy is just ridiculous.

Are you being serious? It was an analogy, just like your marathon runner story was an analogy. Nobody cares what clothes you wear in real life. It was a giant "IF" statement. Wow!

I won't say a word, because you wouldn't consider what I say anyway. You'll just have to wait and see what happens and what I do.

So, you will not retract your other claims when you fail the kidney test. That means we will continue to ask you to test those claims.

Let's see what the IIG says about this.

You are on equal footing with the IIG. It's up to you what you consider acceptable. When you pick a person you think is missing a kidney and all you have is that person's word that they are not missing a kidney, will that be acceptable to you?

Kidney donors should have no accompanying external symptoms of missing a kidney.

You need to read up on the subject.

And that is why the test will have a screen that covers the heads of the persons. Why don't you read the test protocol negotiations before you complain?

Body language is not restricted to the head.

I haven't scanned them because I want the data in table format. To analyze the data is quicker done than typing up the data on the computer. Besides I helped Dr. Carlson so there were two of us.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

The test with people in pictures was never my claim, I only did that to find out if I could and because all of you were insisting that I do that.

You said you could do it. You told us stories of how you did it in the past. You offered to do it. You attempted it. You failed.

I have not failed the Lactobacillus test, I stopped testing it because I got headaches.

I have covered this in detail in the past. You are the only one who thinks you didn't fail.

I did REALLY WELL at the in-person readings with the FACT Skeptics.

You are the only one with that interpretation.

The study had serious flaws in the design.

Gee, ya think? Everyone told you that, including F-A-C-T. However, the flaws were in favor of falsely showing an ability. It was adequate to demonstrate a lack of ability, which it did.

The induced tests were testing situations that I had not experienced before, so they were not based on claims anyway. I was just testing.
There is no failure. You however see things from your perspective only.

So you say. Clearly the tests were based on what you thought you could do. Thing is, you didn't say, "my ability is not working under these conditions." You gave answers, and those answers were wrong. You thought you were doing something, but you weren't. That's an epic fail.

Psychics: "Why do you say you are not psychic?"
VFF: "Because UncaYimmy said so."

So, now you're back to being a psychic rather than a skeptic and science student objectively evaluating your experiences?

 

[Uncayimmy]

You disappoint me and you fail as a skeptic. The man had a constant worsening of his migraine condition during the past 10-15 years. Before my attempted treatment he was having a minimum of 12 migraines a month. Since the treatment he has had two migraines a month for two months now.

Again with the repetition. You did not "transmit a placebo effect" - you don't even understand what placebo is.

And you, Mr. Carr, requested to call the man and check out the facts, and it was arranged so that you could, and now you come here and "doubt" that it was as was said. You're the one who was supposed to check out the facts!

Please do not lie. I never made a "request" to do it nor did you arrange it in such a way that I could verify your story.

I brought up the idea of possibly verifying your story by phone. I brought up this idea because after hearing your repeated claims of having affidavits, it turns out you were lying about it. You then made a comment about me being a stalker, which you later claimed to be a joke. At that point I told you publicly and privately that there was no way I would participate now.

Without any prompting from me, you sent me phone numbers and one person's first name (your boyfriend). However, you did not include all of the parties involved. You also said that I could not talk to the victim's wife and went so far as to tell me that if she answered the phone, I should ask to speak to "her husband."

Even if you had not called me a stalker, I wouldn't have made the calls under those conditions. I am not passing judgment on your personal life, but your two "witnesses" have little credibility. I would expect your boyfriend, who is 40 years your senior, to back your story. The only other person is an unidentified man 30 years your senior who wants to hide the conversation from his wife.

You need to let this go. Your story is unverified. You lied about having affidavits. The only "proof" you offered would have been highly suspect had I made the calls. The truth is your actions made the story less credible, not more.

I know I am not a medical doctor. I told him I have no licence. I did not give any medical advice, I told him to continue with his conventional treatment and medicines just as before, and he has. Visualization and a gentle head massage are harmless.

And useless.

Whoa! Kill someone with my light? I don't think so. *cough* *unless I design it to kill* *cough* I am an expert from Arcturus, remember? Also, in accordance with the attempted treatment, I perceive the supposed effects immediately and if there was harm I would see it. Besides, I do my Vibrational Calculations carefully to test the light structure before applying it, duh!

I find the above paragraph hard to decipher. Are you now joking about your abilities because you know deep down they are not real? If so, then tell us. If you believe they are real, then you are foolish and dangerous. You have no basis whatsoever to justify projecting light into someone's brain. You'd be thrown in jail if you were doing these kinds of tests with equipment known to have similar effects.

So which is it? Is it a joke or are you toying with something you don't understand and have never tested?

 

[Uncayimmy]

If you were only somewhat good at painting and only did that as a hobby and were on the level of a 5th grader, you would not want to submit your work into a professional art competition. When you could enter a cooking contest with your award winning recipe that already has tremendous potential!

The question to which you are responding was about testing yourself. Why are you yacking about art competitions? Besides, art is a horrible analogy. Your claims are binary propositions: either you can or you cannot detect something. Either you see sodium and sugar as having different colors or you do not. Period. It's incredibly easy to test yourself.

Why don't you?

The kidney detection test forms the strongest claim I can make, so if I fail that test it falsifies pretty much everything below it along with it.

Really? Does that include detecting a full bladder? Smelling stomach contents? Remote tasting? Telepathy? Talking with ghosts?

You are approaching this from the perspective of easiest test arrangements, whereas I am approaching this based on the quality of the claims. I submit my strongest claim that I find to be most likely to pass. And just so happens it is a very testable one at that.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Kidney detection test is testable. I was hoping it would be to your satisfaction.

What's going to happen is that in this short period of time before school starts up again, the test wil not be arranged. At the very least we're talking about finding three people with missing kidneys willing to devote a few hours to be gawked at, which is no simple task. You also need three groups of 9 volunteers with similar physical characteristics to each of the missing kidney folks. Plus you need some extras just in case. They all need to be able to get together at the same time over a weekend.

On top of that you still don't have a workable protocol. You're expecting the IIG to tell you what you need to do, when you know from past experience that you can't just wait for them to tell you how to test your claim. It's your claim, so you have to state what you can do and under what conditions.

You know all this. You know the test won't happen this summer. Once school starts, you will say you don't have the time and/or money to fly to out west for the test. So you will continue to make these claims and blame everyone else for why you haven't actually been tested.

It's no coincidence that you discovered your "ability" to sense missing kidneys back in December but waited until recently to tell the IIG that you wanted to test it. Nothing has changed since then. You just like talking about taking a test. You don't actually want to do it.

BTW, if you can afford to fly out west for a test, how come you can't afford the $10 to buy the reference pills at the local drug store?

 

[Kariboo]

The perceptions remain just experiences until proven otherwise. I am describing synesthetic experiences, and am testing the one of medical perceptions for correlation with reality.
They are descriptions of experiences, and not stated as real.

So none of these:

"I've accurately perceived clues about the identity of unknown chemical samples by feeling into them and perceiving color and structural information, without knowing what the compounds were. "

and this

If I superimpose the vibrational aspect of a disease with the vibrational aspect of the healthy state, I can do a subtraction to obtain the vibrational aspect of the cure.

and this :

I have known health information that I shouldn't have been able to know, such as what a person ate, internal cysts, a formerly broken skull and a kidney being missing.

and this:

I can read where things are headed and how changes in the body will unfold. I detect many of what I call "precursors" for diseases that can be present before the problem has become severe enough to be considered an illness, such as breast cancer precursors, and the very common diabetes precursor.

and this:

I can very clearly sense people's emotions, and know how others are feeling. I will know what people think about me. I can sense the gist of people's thoughts, and sometimes hear the words that they are thinking. I have done telepathy exercises with friends with amazing results. A fun game of mine is telepathy: I have a friend to whom I will send a telepathic image. I will give him the category, my favorite category is animals. I will construct a clear image in my mind and send it to him. Animals have shape and size, but so much more. The texture of their skin, feathers, fur, or scales of fish or reptiles. I strengthen the image by adding a lot of feeling into it. The friend will then describe the animal and (unless either of us becomes tired) we are almost always correct. It is such a fun game.

and this:

I can clearly see Helicobacter pylori, which is the bacteria that can cause stomach ulcers. In fact, years ago a relative of mine had stomach ulcers. I described the red bacteria with arms that I saw in the stomach, and this was before I had learned that this bacteria actually looks like that and causes the ulcers.

and this:

I can also clearly see the friendly Lactobacillus bacteria that people take in the form of a supplement to balance their digestive system.

and this:

I can taste a food just by looking at it, which is great fun. When a friend of mine eats ice-cream I ask if I can watch him eat it. I turn away and only look at the side of his neck and do not see when he eats it or what type of flavors, and I can actually feel the cold, the texture, the sweet, the taste, through him. Almost as if it were me eating it. I get the experience without the calories.

Are real?

 

[Audible Click]

VfF, I'm glad you're going to scan the FACT papers. I'm hoping you do it soon.

 

[volatile]

Oh that was so funny, just from looking at a scanning electron microscopic image on the computer! I also felt strong numbing effects in my lungs when I looked at the drawn molecular structure of codeine before I knew what its medicinal effects should be. And I feel that it is the ether oxygen that does it (the O in the middle left). I can not look at this molecular structure because I feel it so strongly in my lungs.

OK, so explain to me again why you needed reference samples for Pup's pills?

 

[volatile]

OK, so explain to me again why you needed reference samples for Pup's pills?

And with thanks to Kariboo above - explain to me why you needed reference samples if you've "accurately perceived clues about the identity of unknown chemical samples by feeling into them and perceiving color and structural information, without knowing what the compounds were. "

 

[Senex]

I knew you would say something! Based on your offers of meeting me in haunted motel rooms I knew you would be interested in my offers for attempted migraine treatment, where I described it to LightinDarkness as,

VFF:If you want we can meet in a public place for a coffee or something like that just to get to know each other a little bit first. And if you prefer I can get us a room someplace else. Heh, but strictly professional of course so don't try anything. (...) All you need to do is to sit someplace comfortable. I might dim the lights. (...) The third part might involve a gentle massage on your head and neck with my fingertips.

I take this as proof of your paranormal prowess. Unlike the skeptical rascals who post on this thread my motivations and beliefs are opaque -- yet you saw right through them! My migraines should be a thing of the past shortly.

I knew that would make you think you had migraines!

"Think" young lady!? I know. I'm certain the penalty for mispeaking will help with my migraines as well

 

[Uncayimmy]

Nonsense. If I were I'd be after the JREF MDC like everyone else.

You are not qualified to go after the MDC because you lack academic affidavits and a media presence. However, it appears you were working on securing the latter. On your website you wrote quite a bit about your proposed second study including this:

"The second study will be an open-access public event. Flyers will be posted in shops and restaurants and possibly on the internet and in a newspaper local to the area where the study will be held. I might contact the local media and ask if they would like to attend the event."

It's funny how you keep telling us how it's not about you, yet you publicly share fantasies like, "I envision that the volunteers will be seated to watch the study while one of them at a time is called to sit up front for the reading and may after the reading return to the audience."

I find it very interesting that right around the time Connie Sonne was attracting all this attention, you started in with this publicly held second study and submitting a seven month old claim to IIG for testing.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

And with thanks to Kariboo above - explain to me why you needed reference samples if you've "accurately perceived clues about the identity of unknown chemical samples by feeling into them and perceiving color and structural information, without knowing what the compounds were. "

My past examples of chemical detection are different from what I was asked to do on the pill test. In past experiences, for instance I had unknown compounds to identify in the lab, I could feel into the chemicals and find clues that were helpful however I did not identify the exact compound based on those feelings because there are countless of similar compounds and I am only learning how to translate the vibrational aspect into corresponding molecular structure and names of chemicals.

As for when I looked at codeine, it was already a structure so that is different. On the pill test, I perceived two pairs that had similar effects and was unable to distinguish two from one another, and another two from one another, and was reluctant to conclude on the test.

 

[volatile]

My past examples of chemical detection are different from what I was asked to do on the pill test. In past experiences, for instance I had unknown compounds to identify in the lab, I could feel into the chemicals and find clues that were helpful however I did not identify the exact compound based on those feelings because there are countless of similar compounds and I am only learning how to translate the vibrational aspect into corresponding molecular structure and names of chemicals.

As for when I looked at codeine, it was already a structure so that is different. On the pill test, I perceived two pairs that had similar effects and was unable to distinguish two from one another, and another two from one another, and was reluctant to conclude on the test.

You knew what the pills were - and they all have very different molecular structures. If you really can "[feel] into them and perceiving color and structural information", what stopped you with Pup's pills?

 

[Femke]

<snip>
On the pill test, I perceived two pairs that had similar effects and was unable to distinguish two from one another, and another two from one another, and was reluctant to conclude on the test.

Then why did you not just write that down as your conclusion? Back then, I mean. A tentative conclusion is also a conclusion.
'Nrs 1 and 4 have similar effects, both painkillers but I could not distinguish them, nrs 2 and 3 both have effect on allergies, and 5 is the antacid.'

We (at least I) would have been thrilled if you got that right. You say now that you distinguished them, but you never said which was which, so we have no way of knowing this for sure.


Oh, and by the way, on my sugar-'n'-salt proposal: I know it is not your main claim, but it is one of the things you claim, and it would only take a few hours to set it up and conduct it.
It might even be fun.
Aren't you even curious how it would go?


Femke