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VisionFromFeeling - General discussion thread

I came late to this discussion, so forgive me if this has been asked before. Are you referring to Dr Richard "Hot tub" Boylan?

Yep, that's the very chap of whom she speaks. He has a charming questionnaire that tells you whether you're a Star Child. The indications are a mixture of the mundane (average body temp of less than 97.6, having a large head, having a "knowing" gaze) and the preposterous (self-levitation, telekinesis, astral travel).

If you can stomach reading it, you can find the entire questionnaire here: http://www.drboylan.com/starkididqstnr.html
 
Yep, that's the very chap of whom she speaks. He has a charming questionnaire that tells you whether you're a Star Child. The indications are a mixture of the mundane (average body temp of less than 97.6, having a large head, having a "knowing" gaze) and the preposterous (self-levitation, telekinesis, astral travel).

If you can stomach reading it, you can find the entire questionnaire here: http://www.drboylan.com/starkididqstnr.html

Just don't get your hopes up too high even if you score well in this questionnaire. Establishing "visually and unquestionably" if you are really a star person, involves dowsing rods.

From this video interview: http://revision3.com/webdrifter/drboylan. A little sad, but funny too, especially the interviewer's reaction to "... if you can get through the force field".

Quite convincing drawings though...
 
You are right that it would be preferable to use bulky clothing to cover the figure of the volunteers. However I might prefer a thinner fabric in case I see through it better. Geez, I have to study this... :faint: All I need to do is have some people I know wear various things and see if I can still claim to see their kidneys. Should be done in a snap.

Should be done in a snap? We've been talking about screens since the first week of November, 2008.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4184814#post4184814
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4181689#post4181689

And my favorite from the middle of last December: "Hopefully with my local skeptics group I can provide some documented examples of how this thing works and doesn't work. I would not involve Randi in my case until I have thoroughly examined what exactly I can and can not do. For instance I need to try reading people who are behind a screen, I need to have more experience to see how reliable the frequency of perceptions are, etc. I would only bring a fully researched paranormal claim to Randi, and I am not at that point yet."

Also, lets not forget your lactobacillus testing. You could see it in cereal boxes and inside of a person's stomach, but when you tried to test yourself with paper cups, you couldn't do it with the five cups being covered by paper. You removed the covers and still couldn't do it. You then switched to four cups. Still no good. So you wet the cereal in the target cup. Still no good, so you reduced it to three cups. That's when you claim you had some success.

At that point you advised us that "a total of ten trials in a row seems to be the most I can do before becoming too uncomfortable to continue." You never tested yourself again even though you said you planned to because you were "very pleased to find an easier method for identification" and were "surprised by the tremendous confidence level" you had.

I think you need to do a lot more preparation before you attempt the kidney test you are describing. You can't pull this kind of switching around protocols with the IIG. Nobody wants to see another round of excuses like how reading 10 people is just too strenuous for you.

The IIG could be accused of cheating by having more than the said number of persons who are missing a kidney! If the person I select as having one kidney is not the target person who has documentation to verify that they are missing a kidney, how do we verify that the person I selected does indeed have both kidneys? I have asked the IIG to suggest what we do. Isn't it fun to forward all the problems to the IIG? I bet they are having a fun time today discussing all these things! :cool:

It's not up to the IIG or anyone else besides you to resolve these issues, especially when all you have done so far is tell everyone that you detected a missing kidney in one person, but only after that person told you he was missing a kidney. You do not have, as you put it, a "fully researched paranormal claim" on your hands.

Why don't you work out something with F-A-C-T? You've got the one person you allegedly read with a missing a kidney already at your disposal.
 
Dear Skeptics, let's not talk more about Star People. Although I agree that it might be relevant to reasons why I am a paranormal claimant, it should by no means disqualify the testable and falsifiable paranormal claim that I submit for offical testing, which is now the claim of detecting which of persons is missing a kidney. To be a Star Person is just a cultural personality characteristic.

The Webdrifter episodes are funny. I would love to be in one of them. I love that guy who does the interviews.

I have submitted a new test protocol draft to the IIG based on this more specific claim of detecting which of persons is missing a kidney. The IIG will let me know whether a screen will be necessary on the test and also whether they suggest that I have the test locally with the FACT Skeptics.

The Lactobacillus test is not my main claim.
 
VisionfromFeeling has been sending me repeated (and VERY LONG) PMs trying to get me to agree to let her "heal" my migraines. I must say, I stand amazed. After just pointing out to her this was dangerously stepping over the line in terms of making medical claims and not being a medical practitioner, she asks to heal me.

I offered to come to her and let her practice the woo on me if she would promise that upon my reporting I still have migraines that she would drop the woo and go back to being a student. I even offered to get a signed statement from my doctor making a formal diagnosis that the migraines I have always had...still existed.

As you might guess, my offer was declined. Why am I not surprised?
 
On your website you write, "I sense information about foods. I can taste a food just by looking at it, which is great fun. When a friend of mine eats ice-cream I ask if I can watch him eat it. I turn away and only look at the side of his neck and do not see when he eats it or what type of flavors, and I can actually feel the cold, the texture, the sweet, the taste, through him. Almost as if it were me eating it. I get the experience without the calories."

Why not test this? It would be very easy to do.

There are a number of claims on your site that could be easily tested. Take for example the various foods on your Food Perceptions page. You claim to be able to perceive all sorts of chemicals that result in all sorts of cures such as dandelion leaves being an anti-inflammatory. Surely we could find similar appearing leaves, throw 'em a food processor, and make them visually indistinguishable from dandelion leaves. All you have to do is distinguish the one with the anti-inflammatory chemical.

What about testing your perceptions about urine? Your website says, "I can feel male vs. female hormone in urine, they are very distinct from one another. Every individual's urine feels very distinct to that person." Should be easy enough to test.

You also claim that certain chemicals have distinct color signatures including sodium and sugar. Why not dissolve these in water, then test yourself accordingly? Seems inexpensive and straightforward.

I think it is great that you are done "studying" things and are ready for some real testing. In one afternoon you could test several of your claims. These are so simple that if you pass any one of them, you could easily get the academic affidavits and media coverage to take the MDC. The protocols would be a lot simpler than trying to round up people who can prove their kidney count.

Many of us here would be more than happy to assist with developing a protocol.
 
Yes, the working with people behind a screen/cloth would be easy to do--if they are willing--with a FACT group that included a kidney donor. Ten people in chairs on one side of the screen, Anita walks in and does her scan, and indicates where she thinks the person with the missing kidney is.

I think Anita already said "No" to this, but if she can detect missing tonsils and/or appendix, that increases the pool of test subjects greatly (since having those removed is much more common that having a kidney removed or simply being born with only one). IIRC, she did a shopping mall survey and concluded she couldn't tell, but maybe she could do a quick scan at a F A C T meeting (if they are willing) and see?

My money's on there being lots of niggling details that require separate 'surveys' that never get done, but I'd love to be proven wrong! -- MK
 
Dear Skeptics, let's not talk more about Star People. Although I agree that it might be relevant to reasons why I am a paranormal claimant, it should by no means disqualify the testable and falsifiable paranormal claim that I submit for offical testing, which is now the claim of detecting which of persons is missing a kidney.
Nobody ever said or even implied that it should disqualify your testing. If you don't want to discuss it, don't. There are those of us who might want to.

To be a Star Person is just a cultural personality characteristic.
One cannot "be" a characteristic - that makes no sense.

I have submitted a new test protocol draft to the IIG based on this more specific claim of detecting which of persons is missing a kidney. The IIG will let me know whether a screen will be necessary on the test and also whether they suggest that I have the test locally with the FACT Skeptics.
You and the IIG need to negotiate a protocol. You, not the IIG, will determine if you can perform using a screen. As has been explained to you countless times, there are numerous visual clues you can pick up about a person. You need to test this on your own. You said on your website that you learned that you need to take control and do the legwork. What steps have you taken so far besides submitting a "protocol" with a bunch of question marks to test something you claim to have done once in your entire life?

The Lactobacillus test is not my main claim.
Is that what you got out of my post about how you ruin every test scenario before it ever gets going? Amazing.

The only person who cares about your "main claim" is you. We want a claim - any claim - to be tested. So should you. A good scientist starts with the easiest tests first. You are picking the most complicated and expensive claim to test. That makes no sense unless you are once again avoiding a real test.

What's the status on posting the results of the study you conducted so many months ago?
 
You also claim that certain chemicals have distinct color signatures including sodium and sugar. Why not dissolve these in water, then test yourself accordingly? Seems inexpensive and straightforward.

Remember what happened last time someone went out of his way to provide her with chemicals to test?
 
VisionfromFeeling has been sending me repeated (and VERY LONG) PMs trying to get me to agree to let her "heal" my migraines. I must say, I stand amazed. After just pointing out to her this was dangerously stepping over the line in terms of making medical claims and not being a medical practitioner, she asks to heal me.

I offered to come to her and let her practice the woo on me if she would promise that upon my reporting I still have migraines that she would drop the woo and go back to being a student. I even offered to get a signed statement from my doctor making a formal diagnosis that the migraines I have always had...still existed.

As you might guess, my offer was declined. Why am I not surprised?

This is very scary. Anita, you must see that trying to heal people without a license is against the law. LightinDarkness has explained the NC law to you. If you persist in going further down this road, I strongly suspect that sooner or later you are going to clearly and unequivatively cross that line, and end up with a criminal record.

Personally, I would like to see you stop this, for two reasons. One: you are putting yourself, your future, and your ability to stay in this country, at great risk.

Two: and, more importantly, I do not believe you have any of the powers you claim. I just don't. As a science student you should be well-aware of the placebo effect. If you can get someone feeling better temporarily (assuming for the sake of argument that you've actually ever managed even that), it may make them they may decide to quit taking their medicine, listening to their physician, etc. Until it is too late. Your playing doctor, no matter how you wish to phrase it, could have devastating, even life-threatening consequences.

Please, please, please, if you wish to play around with thinking you can see inside someone's body, have at it. Just DO NOT PRACTICE IT ON OTHERS!
 
The IIG will let me know whether a screen will be necessary on the test .

Let's assume they do think it will be necessary. Would you agree to that or would you have to do additional studies/surveys to figure out if you can do this?

I thought you already did studies with a screen or at least you wrote that you would test that. Have you done this testing?
 
<snip good stuff>
You also claim that certain chemicals have distinct color signatures including sodium and sugar. Why not dissolve these in water, then test yourself accordingly? Seems inexpensive and straightforward.
<snippy>

Many of us here would be more than happy to assist with developing a protocol.

VfF: This seems to me something you can very easily test for yourself, provided you build in some precautions. If you allow me, how about this informal test.

It takes three beakers and three small screwtop jars, of the kind you find in any chemistry lab (but return them after use, of course); some paper and two pens.

Step 1.
You make a solution of salt of a strength that you can surely detect, and put it in one beaker. Make sure the crystals dissolve completely.
You make a solution of sugar you can surely detect, and put it in another beaker. Make sure the crystals dissolve completely.
Fill the third beaker with water.
Mark the beakers randomly with 1, 2 and 3, and write down what is what: e.g. 1= salt, 2=water, 3=sugar.
Fold this slip and put it away in your wallet, where your friend cannot see it.

Step 2.
You leave, and then your friend comes in.
S/he takes one screwtop jar and marks it A. Then s/he rolls a dice: if it is 1 or 4 s/he uses beaker 1 to fill it, if it is 2 or 5 s/he uses beaker 2, and if it is 3 or 6 s/he uses beaker 3.
Then the top is screwed on, so you cannot smell it.
The same procedure for the other two, marked B and C.
S/he writes down which beaker was used for A, B and C, and folds that away where you cannot see it.

Step 3.
S/he leaves, and you come in. You detect what is in which jar, and write it down: e.g. "First run: A=salt, B=salt, C=water"

Step 4
You leave, and then your friend comes back, empties the jars, rinses them.
Then repeat steps 2 and 3.

After four trials you compare notes and see how often you are right.


How does this sound? Anita? Or others, can you point out glaring holes in my 'protocol', as I've never done one before? (this is fun, by the way)
I hope someone better versed in statistics can supply the odds to beat.

Femke
 
Yes, the working with people behind a screen/cloth would be easy to do--if they are willing--with a FACT group that included a kidney donor. Ten people in chairs on one side of the screen, Anita walks in and does her scan, and indicates where she thinks the person with the missing kidney is.
I have asked the IIG that we use a screen that covers the heads of the volunteers. I do not know how well I can do with a full body screen, but if the IIG insists on the use of a full body screen I will find out what I can do.

I think Anita already said "No" to this, but if she can detect missing tonsils and/or appendix, that increases the pool of test subjects greatly (since having those removed is much more common that having a kidney removed or simply being born with only one). IIRC, she did a shopping mall survey and concluded she couldn't tell, but maybe she could do a quick scan at a F A C T meeting (if they are willing) and see?
I know people who are missing their tonsils and I am unable to figure out how to detect that. The tonsils are kind of an integral part of the throat area and not as obvious as when a kidney is missing. As for appendix, it is very small. I might be able to train myself to detect those better, but at this point I'd be more happy to proceed with the kidneys. :)

You and the IIG need to negotiate a protocol. You, not the IIG, will determine if you can perform using a screen. As has been explained to you countless times, there are numerous visual clues you can pick up about a person. You need to test this on your own. You said on your website that you learned that you need to take control and do the legwork. What steps have you taken so far besides submitting a "protocol" with a bunch of question marks to test something you claim to have done once in your entire life?
If the IIG insists that we use a full body screen then I will determine whether I can do that or not. I would of course prefer to have the test without a full body screen. And actually, missing a kidney should in most cases come with no external symptoms, such as a change in body posture or changes in movement or a change in body shape. I think this is the one thing we can have the test with that should be undetectable by looking at a person! You can see the full protocol negotiations on testprotocol.html

The only person who cares about your "main claim" is you. We want a claim - any claim - to be tested. So should you. A good scientist starts with the easiest tests first. You are picking the most complicated and expensive claim to test. That makes no sense unless you are once again avoiding a real test.
My paranormal claim is detection of medical information through means of extrasensory perception. What you are saying here, is like asking an expert marathon runner to instead enter a swimming competition, just because they swim sometimes and because it is easier for you to stand and watch beside the pool rather than invest on covering the several mile long track. You test the claim that is submitted for testing, and not try to search for something else that is most convenient for you.

Detecting which of persons is missing a kidney is actually not expensive or complicated.

What's the status on posting the results of the study you conducted so many months ago?
I am typing them up on my website, but trust me it is a lot of work.

Remember what happened last time someone went out of his way to provide her with chemicals to test?
What happened was that no one provided me with reference samples, so I had no way of labeling what I was feeling.
 
What happened was that no one provided me with reference samples, so I had no way of labeling what I was feeling.

Originally, you claimed you could do it without reference samples. Apparently, you were so sure that you'd fail when actually put to the test, that you didn't even try.

You'd already identified one of the chemicals under other conditions, according to a previous post you'd made, so you were familiar with it. People suggested that since the medicines were so common, you could "look" at samples for free at any pharmacy through the containers, or friends would probably have samples. Or it was also suggested that merely naming the effect they'd have on the body would be enough to distinguish some of them from others, and that was something you said you'd done in the past.

You claimed you could do it, but when actually asked to, you wouldn't. Now you're scrambling for excuses when the obvious answer is: you don't have that ability.
 
What happened was that no one provided me with reference samples, so I had no way of labeling what I was feeling.

Hoping this is not too much of a derail but:

Pup told you what they were (#1194 in the original thread)

calcium carbonate (an antacid)
phenylephrine hcl (a decongestant)
cetirizine hydrochloride (a 24 hour allergy medicine)
ibuprofen
aspirin

According to you, you should have been able to figure out what they treat, as in this on cures headache, this one unstufs your nose etc. Alternatively you could have taken them to a CVS and compared them to what is on the shelves to figure it out. Regardless you have not done so and therefore failed that test
 
Why not choose a simpler challenge? Why choose one with so many details that it will be hard to arrange? Why couldn't you arrange a test that involves tissue samples, some healthy, some diseased, and pick out the diseased samples? That way you wouldn't have to worry about certifying whether or not people have two kidneys or one, screens, and other details that make the test much too complicated. If the test is simple, it will be easier for the public to grasp the significance of what you've done.

There have been several simple test suggested here, why not pick one of those? They're cheap and easy to arrange, and if you passed any one of them people would stop doubting you. Once you've passed the first test, people will be willing to go to greater lengths and greater expense for future tests. As a matter of fact, if you passed the first test, you'd probably be able to demand nearly any test materials that you wanted, and people would be frothing at the bit to provide it for you.

You do know that the JREF requires the applicant to pay for any materials used in the testing, don't you? I'm sure the IIG has the same requirements. Why not save yourself some money on buying the screens and opt for a simpler test involving salt, sugar, water, and a few cheap beakers? Frankly, your refusal to opt for the simpler tests confuses me.
 
I do not know how well I can do with a full body screen.
We know. You told us that eight months ago and several times since then. You'e promised to research it. Why haven't you done anything about it?

My paranormal claim is detection of medical information through means of extrasensory perception. What you are saying here, is like asking an expert marathon runner to instead enter a swimming competition, just because they swim sometimes and because it is easier for you to stand and watch beside the pool rather than invest on covering the several mile long track. You test the claim that is submitted for testing, and not try to search for something else that is most convenient for you.
It nothing like that at all. In fact that comparison is utter nonsense. You are not an expert at anything. You are an ordinary person making extraordinary claims about having dozens of special abilities, nearly all of which could be tested with minimal effort. You have not tested a single one of those claims in even a rudimentary manner. Instead you insist on choosing an expensive, time-consuming and cumbersome test.

Are you just after the $50K?

A more apt comparison is this that you are claiming to be an incredibly wealthy person. You claim to own priceless works of art, designer clothes, expensive jewelry, exotic cars, a private jet, and a mansion with a dozen people on staff. We ask you to prove it. You could just show us a bank statement and be done with it. Or maybe you could just have your driver/bodyguard show up in a Rolls Royce to drive us to your mansion so we can see the paintings and sculptures.

But no. Instead you we see you getting off the bus wearing Levis, a cheap Wal Mart sweater and costume jewelry (like an ordinary person). You offer to prove your wealth by getting a nose job from the most prestigious plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills and paying in cash. Of course, you can only go when you have some free time. And when the doctor has an appointment. And after you decide on what kind of nose you want. And this assumes, of course, that you are a candidate for surgery since, you know, you might be allergic to anesthesia cuz you've never been put under before.

What I want to know is what happens when you fail the kidney test? Will you retract all of your other claims?

Detecting which of persons is missing a kidney is actually not expensive or complicated.
It depends. Will you accept a person's statement about their kidney status or will you actually require proof?

I can't believe you still expect this to be done without screens. Have you learned nothing in your time here? People with missing kidneys are not randomly distributed across the population. I'm not saying that they are restricted to only certain groups, but you will find more men aged 35 to 45 who are missing kidneys then you will women 18 to 25.

People who have had a nephrectomy are not the same as those who have not. How visible those clues are will depend on their circumstances (timing, why they had the surgery, overall health). It ranges from virtually impossible to detect to painfully obvious.

Besides that, each person in the test knows their kidney count. It will be difficult to keep the subjects from knowing whether they are the target or not. Their demeanor can give you clues.


I am typing them up on my website, but trust me it is a lot of work.
Why haven't you scanned them like you promised? You only viewed five people, right? You have the original forms in a Word document or wherever. How hard is it to fill out the forms in Word and save them off separately? Dr. Carlson was able to sit down at the F-A-C-T meeting and analyze the data quickly enough.

What happened was that no one provided me with reference samples, so I had no way of labeling what I was feeling.
Nonsense. You told us you already had impressions. Besides, you can apparently look at a food and tell us that it can cure cancer or some other disease. Why can't you look at a medicine with a known effect and tell us what it does?

You failed the pill test just like you failed the test reading people through pictures. You failed the lactobacillus test. You failed the in-person readings at F-A-C-T. You failed in your "study" to be any more accurate that ordinary people doing the same thing. Several of your ghost stories, which you claim to be historically accurate, have been shown to not be accurate at all. And you failed your own "induced" information tests you posted on your website.

Why can't you admit failure when it is staring you in the face? You have claimed to be open to the idea that this is all your imagination. We have several examples where that's the case, yet you deny it. Why?
 
This is very scary. Anita, you must see that trying to heal people without a license is against the law. LightinDarkness has explained the NC law to you. If you persist in going further down this road, I strongly suspect that sooner or later you are going to clearly and unequivatively cross that line, and end up with a criminal record.
I wrote to the N.C. Department of Justice and described the attempted treatment I did with a migraine sufferer, described all that is and is not involved in the attempted treatment. I was referred to the North Carolina Board of Massage and Bodywork Therapy and will be contacting them before I attempt any more treatment for migraine sufferers.

Personally, I would like to see you stop this, for two reasons. One: you are putting yourself, your future, and your ability to stay in this country, at great risk.
I have done no harm, rather the attempted treatment coincided with a dramatic improvement in his migraine condition. And this isn't about me.
Two: and, more importantly, I do not believe you have any of the powers you claim. I just don't. As a science student you should be well-aware of the placebo effect. If you can get someone feeling better temporarily (assuming for the sake of argument that you've actually ever managed even that), it may make them they may decide to quit taking their medicine, listening to their physician, etc. Until it is too late.
I do not believe I have any healing powers either. But in two out of the three healing attempts I had not told the person what I was about to do and they dramatically improved. Those that I have attempted to heal say that I have healed them. I remain skeptical and want to study it with a carefully conducted test. And even if all it was was a placebo effect, if I am able to transmit a placebo effect that gives such a great improvement in their condition, I would be happy to do so. I think these people are at a point where they will try anything, prayer, meditation, affirmation, placebo, just to find relief in their migraines.

As for that "temporary" relief, the man has only had two migraines a month for two months now. Not so temporary. And he continues to rely on conventional treatment and takes medications just like before when he needs them. I have caused no harm.

Your playing doctor, no matter how you wish to phrase it, could have devastating, even life-threatening consequences.
With migraines? I don't think so.
Please, please, please, if you wish to play around with thinking you can see inside someone's body, have at it. Just DO NOT PRACTICE IT ON OTHERS!
All I do was a visualization technique followed by a gentle massage on the head and neck. And you should know better to know that I do not express my medical perceptions. :rolleyes:
 
As you might guess, my offer was declined. Why am I not surprised?
How appropriately misleading. You asked me to if the attempted healing fails and is falsified, to also conclude that my claim of medical perceptions is falsified and to close my website. Meanwhile I contend that the most Skeptical thing to do is to falsify my claim of medical perceptions properly with the kidney detection test, which is right around the corner, and I have carefully explained that especially if my claim is falsified my website needs to stay in order to set a valuable example into the skeptical and woo community. But he disagrees.

VFF: "My claim of medical perceptions was falsified."
Psychics: "You had a test and proved that it doesn't work?"
VFF: "No."
Psychics: "Then how was it falsified?"
VFF: "The Skeptics told me so."
Psychics: "We will continue practicing woo."

Edited by Gaspode: 
Edited for topic - moderated thread

Please see the whole thing on migraines.html.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Originally, you claimed you could do it without reference samples. Apparently, you were so sure that you'd fail when actually put to the test, that you didn't even try.
That is not correct. Don't let her walls of text and avoidance of the subject get in the way of the facts.

"I have detected clues about the pill samples but I want more time with them before I post my conclusions. If you think I should put your pill test before my studies then you are just wrong. I am not going to stare at some powdered pills when I should be reading."

"The crushed pill samples are still waiting for me to have time to pay them some more attention. I've already spent two hours on them and I am not ready to post any answers even though I've perceived clues as to what they might be. I need more time with them, but you have no idea how busy I am with school, and now the study is approaching."

She has tried, and she has clearly failed. She spent two hours with them, but she has told us before that "When I want to make detailed observations or to describe what I am looking at I spend a few seconds up to a few minutes on a perception."
 

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