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This is one of the most clear examples of someone seeking attention that I have ever seen in my life.
Step 1: Make outrageous claim about having a special power.
Step 2: Skeptics ask that you test said claim.
Step 3: Argue that said claim is not your real claim.
Rinse, repeat. This person makes claim after claim about having all sorts of extraordinary powers, but then quickly dismisses every call to test those which are most easily examined.
It is pure and simple attention seeking - a "Look at me, I have special powers!" person who deflects every serious attempt to test said powers while ignoring the 100% test failure rate they currently have from the simple tests that have already been tried over the forum.
Sure, I agree. That isn't what Anita is describing, though. If that IS the case:
Then that would be where a proper study would come in. Problem is, even Anita's preliminary 'readings' in preparation for a study are not honest: she isn't collecting proper data, and she appears to be fudging the data she does collect. Which doesn't hold out much hope that a study would be conducted properly.
Sure. But if the old vet looked at the paw, and said "thorn", and you responded with "I knew it was a thorn before I even brought the dog to you, because I looked into his paw at the atomic level-and it doesn't matter if you don't believe me, because I know it's true" - then you have to consider that any test or study would be fruitless, since the claimant refuses any findings that disprove an extraordinary ability.
That's pretty much the point we are at with Anita.
Well UncaYimmy, this thread was supposed to be about your website, I see Anita has had a lot to say as usual, resulting in this thread being split from the original one. UncaYimmy, if things really were as Anita writes here to Erik:
eirik, until I reach a final conclusion about whether my medical perceptions correlate with actual health information or not, I will continue to tell my loved ones what I sense about them. Because everyone does that, and most always it is harmless stuff like, "Honey, your neck muscle is tired today", or "Hon, you really need to go to the bathroom!"
Before and after reaching the final conclusion I will continue to experience the perceptions. I do not express my medical perceptions to people other than my closest loved ones, and there is no risk of me becoming a practicing woo in psychic medical diagnose.
If the conclusion is reached that I do in fact have a skill of extrasensory MRI, I would then have to consider what I should and could do with that skill, but as of today that is so remotely from being within my consideration that I can't even tell you what I would do if that were to happen.
Again, eirik, your concerns about the ethics and possible harms involved with someone claiming psychic medical diagnose are perfectly valid and quite necessary in this type of discussion, however they do not apply to me in this case. I am a most responsible person and quite capable of handling this "potential cause of harm" as you portray it. Just like I am fully capable of managing dangerous chemicals in the chemistry lab without causing harm to others. This, what ever it is, is in safe hands with me.
....then I would find you to be a really big meanie, and would also think that you were simply Anitabashing.
However if you go to Anita's website you will be confronted with this type of alarming, incredible MEDICAL DIAGNOSIS and kids thats what it is. DIAGNOSIS. Anita, maybe you should call a lawyer.
Jan 22 09: At the 2nd meeting with the local skeptics group, one of the new members for this month volunteered to let me attempt medical perception with him. I had never met him before and only for a few hours of the meeting that day.
I wrote that his "heart" is "nice and orange pink", which is my way of saying that I perceive the heart to be in perfect health. I wrote that the heart is "not red and inflamed". "Liver fine, slightly smaller" than average, "good chemistry" with which I mean no large traces of medical derivatives which would have indicated that a person is taking a large amount of medication whose derivatives are stored in the liver, no cirrhosis etc that could otherwise be wrong with the liver. I detected a very slight discomfort at the throat, but I clearly wrote down that it is very minor and it is not something I would describe as an "ailment".
I write, "brain fine", "left shoulder tired", but this again was very insignificant and not something I would ever mention, since I claim to be also able to detect the extent of ailments I knew that this was tremendously minor.
Dec 6 08: I used this ability on a new person who I had just met that day and I had received absolutely no information about his health condition. From what I perceived he was in very healthy condition. I detected two highly unusual anatomical traits; the threshold from the stomach to the pyloric valve was set much higher than in most people, and I also saw that the kidneys were significantly larger than most people. He is half Native American and perhaps there are racial differences. I saw that the wall of his heart was very thick to a point of being a serious health concern. The wall of the heart had absorbed a particular type of oil which' source is his food, almost like a sponge designed to soak it in. If this were to continue the heart wall would become enlarged to the point of compressing the large artery through which blood enters the heart and leading to a heart failure.
....this certainly sounds more than telling your close friends that they need to go to the bathroom Anita doesnt it? Unless of course it doesnt.
I love this bit you throw in as some sort of disclaimer:
I told him about this and said that so far when it has been possible to check my information against facts I have not been incorrect yet and that therefore I need to share this information with him. I was concerned of expressing such a significant health problem and feel responsible to acknowledge that if I am incorrect it is serious having given false alarming information.
If you were serious about any of this Anita, your close friend would have gone to the doctor and attempted to have things verified. I mean the guy was heading for heart failure. As a close friend surely he would have gotten back to you and let you know if you had a hit or miss or maybe you would have urged him to go to the doctor for his own sake if not for your "study's", seeing he was going to have heart failure eventually and you are such a close friend? In my logical, reasonable and sane world that is what would happen. But you know, I dont think this guy was a close friend at all. I think you only met him that day. I think you are talking horsecrap.
Which is why UncaYimmy, I think your website is definitely needed to stopvisionfromfeeling doing serious things such as "given false alarming information"
Still I dont blame Anita, not much excitement in having a website that goes along lines such as this:
MY MEDICAL PERCEPTIONS TELL MY CLOSEST FRIENDS THEY NEED TO GO TO THE BATHROOM!
Yeah, that would be quite the anticlimax, I remember when my kids were small and I would insist they needed to go to the bathroom.
Anita,
Edited by Tricky:
edited for rule 12
you came here and thought you could generate attention and gasp! controversy. Well you got both, not really sure what else you are looking for? Also you do not have to stay here with all the meanies...plenty of places you could go.
Edited for Rule 12 violation. Attack the argument, not the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic Posted By: Tricky
"I had never met him before and only for a few hours of the meeting that day.
I wrote that his "heart" is "nice and orange pink", which is my way of saying that I perceive the heart to be in perfect health. I wrote that the heart is "not red and inflamed."
Two weeks later, he decided not to get his annual exam.
And ... http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1362/672046396_81949554bb_o.jpg
"I had never met him before and only for a few hours of the meeting that day.
I wrote that his "heart" is "nice and orange pink", which is my way of saying that I perceive the heart to be in perfect health. I wrote that the heart is "not red and inflamed."
Two weeks later, he decided not to get his annual exam.
And ...
Before I read this, I thought UncaYimmy had gone a bit too far with his website. If there are actual cases of "diagnoses" that are being given to gullible randoms, well... now I'm worried.
Before I read this, I thought UncaYimmy had gone a bit too far with his website. If there are actual cases of "diagnoses" that are being given to gullible randoms, well... now I'm worried.
To be fair, that example was a skeptic at a skeptics meeting, so he probably didn't take her all that seriously.
However, she tells us she only reads family and "close friends" but when pushed she tells us that "close friends" includes people she just met that very same day. When she says she only diagnoses "mostly harmless" stuff like "your neck is sore" she's actually talking about very serious issues like heart disease. Apparently she deems it "harmless" to say "your heart is fine" whereas any comment about someone's heart carries serious implications.
Anita IS obviously intelligent in certain areas, given that she has achieved high grades in a demanding double major. She's beautiful, she's young, she's obviously got a lot going for her. According to one FACT skeptic who has met her, she is soft spoken and personable. So, why the heck does she need to come here and spend hours upon hours to spin fantasies by posting walls o'text, that say the same thing over and over and over again, and which have convinced absolutely no one? She is so desperate for attention that even the most negative attention keeps her coming back for more and more and more-mostly so she can feel superior, I think. I don't disagree with Longtabber that she may well be running a scam, but it is baffling what her objective is, since no one here is buying what she is selling. It might simply be the attention.
As well, for someone so intelligent, she can be mind numbingly dense. She doesn't want to involve her university or her future professional life in her paranormal claims - so she tells four professors? Faculty members talk to each other-they compare notes, especially if they are science professors,and they each have a student who spins baseless claims of an ability that would turn established science upside down. Claims that portray the student as the most extraordinary being to have ever existed. She proposes to ask university students to get involved in her 'study'? Students gossip. She posts these fictitious claims in several places on the Internet-using her real name? Prospective employers run background checks-and they use the Internet to do it.
In the end, it's just sad. What a way to waste precious time-soaking up negative attention and feeding disbelieving people bizarre fantasies.
The claim, to be prosecuted, still needs to meet the above criteria in the other posts- now it gets "muddy".
Its the difference between stating a claim as fact or opinion. If you state it as a fact- you are walking on thin ice but if you state it as an opinion, you are pretty clear.
Then it gets muddier. You can state it as fact - be 100% WRONG but had a sincere belief and or information ( to a reasonable person) that your belief was "true" then you are legally insulated from the charge.
Then you have the difference between a "threat" versus a WARNING. ( which is a razor thin line)
But, a "threat" to initiate LEGAL action ( such as "I'm gonna sue you if you do or dont do...................." [ or substitute arrest] CANNOT be grounds for action nor can publicity surrounding arrest/litigation be a basis for suit either.) The reason they cannot be is because an arrest or suit has statutory requirements that must be met or the action cannot be performed since the "citizen" isnt the one doing the arresting or prosecuting.
( a good test that illustrates this is the Duke Rape case)
Sorry-- Derail on this point with a little more detail. I'll try to be quick.
In the USA there are two basic arenas of law, civil and criminal. Here in the US, if you "sue" someone, that means that they will be a party to a civil suit in a civil court of law where the penalties are monetary in nature and there is no government entity handing out a punishment.
If a state or governmental entity is going to bring charges against you for a violation of a criminal statute, then that is considered a prosecution.
Most states in the USA do not have criminal provisions for defamation of character, to my knowledge. There might be some weird hate speech violations or some types of extortion that would come close, but AFAIK, defamation of character is a civil cause of action (a tort) and would be pursued in civil court.
Defamation of character nowadays covers both what used to be called slander (spoken defamation) and libel (written defamation).
LONGTABBER is absolutely correct about damages and is absolutely correct about the burden of proof being upon the plaintiff to prove by clear and convincing evidence that an untrue statment was made that caused damage to the plaintiff.
A quirky point is that IF the underlying statement is one that suggests that the plaintiff has committed a criminal act, the burden of proof shifts to the defendant and he must then prove by clear and convincing evidence that the statement IS true.
End of the boring derail. Thanks! Back to you, Anita.
Anita IS obviously intelligent in certain areas, given that she has achieved high grades in a demanding double major. She's beautiful, she's young, she's obviously got a lot going for her. According to one FACT skeptic who has met her, she is soft spoken and personable. So, why the heck does she need to come here and spend hours upon hours to spin fantasies by posting walls o'text, that say the same thing over and over and over again, and which have convinced absolutely no one? She is so desperate for attention that even the most negative attention keeps her coming back for more and more and more-mostly so she can feel superior, I think. I don't disagree with Longtabber that she may well be running a scam, but it is baffling what her objective is, since no one here is buying what she is selling. It might simply be the attention.
As well, for someone so intelligent, she can be mind numbingly dense. She doesn't want to involve her university or her future professional life in her paranormal claims - so she tells four professors? Faculty members talk to each other-they compare notes, especially if they are science professors,and they each have a student who spins baseless claims of an ability that would turn established science upside down. Claims that portray the student as the most extraordinary being to have ever existed. She proposes to ask university students to get involved in her 'study'? Students gossip. She posts these fictitious claims in several places on the Internet-using her real name? Prospective employers run background checks-and they use the Internet to do it.
In the end, it's just sad. What a way to waste precious time-soaking up negative attention and feeding disbelieving people bizarre fantasies.
To be fair, that example was a skeptic at a skeptics meeting, so he probably didn't take her all that seriously.
However, she tells us she only reads family and "close friends" but when pushed she tells us that "close friends" includes people she just met that very same day. When she says she only diagnoses "mostly harmless" stuff like "your neck is sore" she's actually talking about very serious issues like heart disease. Apparently she deems it "harmless" to say "your heart is fine" whereas any comment about someone's heart carries serious implications.
I would add that her "close friends" are going to be the most likely to believe her. Maybe we'll get lucky and they are all skeptics - but we know that people can and do take those who claim to have special powers seriously.
When it comes to some types of powers I don't mind as much. People who claim to talk the dead may be woo but the only harm they can cause is emotional by telling the distraught what they don't want to hear when they make the reading up.
But those same people, if taking this kind of thing seriously, could lead to physical harm by taking this "advice" seriously and making medical decisions because of it. Some people are dumb enough to do it, and while I don't generally feel bad for letting dumb people fall for the obvious woo I do draw the line when it comes to physical harm that could occur by believing those who claim to have powers.
By the way, did anyone else notice that this person believes the source of her powers is that..and I'm not kidding (from her website): she thinks she is a "starchild." A benevolent being with supernatural powers here to help us mere mortals.
By the way, did anyone else notice that this person believes the source of her powers is that..and I'm not kidding (from her website): she thinks she is a "starchild." A benevolent being with supernatural powers here to help us mere mortals.
To be fair, that example was a skeptic at a skeptics meeting, so he probably didn't take her all that seriously.
However, she tells us she only reads family and "close friends" but when pushed she tells us that "close friends" includes people she just met that very same day. When she says she only diagnoses "mostly harmless" stuff like "your neck is sore" she's actually talking about very serious issues like heart disease. Apparently she deems it "harmless" to say "your heart is fine" whereas any comment about someone's heart carries serious implications.
Granted, again, the subject was a skeptic and probably didn't believe her-but what does that mean, "heart issue"? Is she referring to an accelerated heart rate...a murmur...arrythmia...insert heart problem here? I wouldn't qualify that as a "harmless" statement. For example, I have a congenital heart defect, and I've had bypass surgery. If I believed in psychics, and one said that to me, it would cause some anxiety. I'd be left wondering if she was referring to one of the old problems, or a new one.
Tally ho! Bet y'all never catch me either!
And you've been at it for four months now, without much luck.
Most sensible hunting packs would have called it a day and headed off for the lodge for some tea and bisquits by now to brag about past glory and tell lies about why this one got away.
Still the hounds pant with pleasure from the hunt, their wet tongues lolling lazily from their mouths. The ladies sip their brandy, the blood lust still pulsing in their veins, almost more excited than the gentlemen in their scarlet jackets contemplating how they rode today, mounts they'd like try in the future and how next time the fur would fly and the hounds would have blood dripping from their jowels.
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