Vision From Feeling

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UncaYimmy, I don't have time to read your wall of text as I am working hard to finalize the material for the study. It is already midnight and I have more work to do by morning. Do you have any suggestions that are productive to the planning of the study? If you all can put the nagging aside for a moment and consider the questions I posted about the health form for the study. Any ideas for what additional ailments I could add? (You may then resume back to the everyday complaints.)

I wrote a protocol for you already. You trashed it. I wrote up a medical conditions form. You refuse to use it. I told you the mall study would never happen. You didn't listen. I told you to organize a test with the skeptics group. You didn't and instead got a few more hours to read the members in case you ever decide to do it. I have four posts in the moderated thread waiting weeks for your reply.

Why should I assist you in any way, shape or form?
 
UncaYimmy:
You have repeatedly quoted very liberally and copiously from our earlier Facebook Chat and revealed plenty of things that I had said and you interpreted the context of what was said in your own manner. I posted our recent conversation as an attempt to provide an accurate representation of what was actually said.

For instance by quoting how I had claimed a possible Nobel prize for myself as if I had brought up the topic you introduced what we said in a manner that allowed plenty of misinterpretation. It was in fact you who brought up the topic that the paranormal claimant would not receive the Nobel prize at which I just said that I think it should go to the person with the ESP. I have been tolerant and overlooked plenty of cases where I felt that you had acted inappropriately with the private conversation that was between the two of us in our earliest conversations.

But before we spoke for the first time on Facebook, both of us agreed that we would save the conversation and I expressed that we could share what was said between us here on the JREF Forum so that others may take part in it too. You then told me that that is fine, as long as we delete some personal correspondence that was exchanged between us.

The fact that you could not simply tell me to delete the post of the conversation (since it is still open for me for editing or removal) and choose to report it is bad manner considering what was agreed between the two of us in advance.

You have turned to constant complaining and a very negative manner of expressing yourself. Your contributions here are no longer productive and you seem to be working against me and my investigation. And as of now I will not be reading your posts.

I have removed you from my Facebook. Everything you do lately is trying to work against me. When I compliment the progress you have made toward my investigation, you turn that against me. When I modify the health questionnaire to adapt it to my actual study then that is wrong. When I adapt the study procedure to work in my particular case that is wrong. You call me delusional when I have shown no symptoms of that. Everything you say is in a negative manner. I have no reason to speak with you. My time is precious now that I am at school and you are not productive to my investigation. I've learned many valuable things from you over these thread pages, but of course you think it is delusional of me for saying so.
 
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I think the ailments on your list are too ambiguous, who doesn't suffer from cold feet and confusion at times or is sometimes constipated or cough a bit.
If you are going to use strangers in a park you have to keep it very simple, people get confused easily and can't be bothered reading a huge list.
Not that I can see the study happening this weekend anyway.

I already gave her this (see attachment) before her first skeptics meeting. She thought it was great. That is, until it actually came time to use it.
 

Attachments

Since everyone is curious,
Facebook Chat between VisionFromFeeling and UncaYimmy January 28 2009:


Your post appears directly after UncaYimmy's post which is the first mention of this conversation. How have you determined that everyone is curious?


<snipped musings of a cyber-stalker>


After reading your last few posts, and this one in particular, I don't think contacting your universtity is going to be enough to stop the madness. You have serious problems, and I'm concerned that you're moving out of the "Mostly Harmless" category.

You were a Mayday, but now you're starting to go all Caligula. Scary.
 
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Jonquill:
I think the ailments on your list are too ambiguous, who doesn't suffer from cold feet and confusion at times or is sometimes constipated or cough a bit.
If you are going to use strangers in a park you have to keep it very simple, people get confused easily and can't be bothered reading a huge list.
Not that I can see the study happening this weekend anyway.
I agree that many of the ailments in the health questionnaire are ambiguous and could not be used on a real test, however the questionnaire also asks for when the ailment was last experienced as well as the perceived extent of the ailment in order to be more specific than that. Can you think of any additional ailments to add that would not be ambiguous and that would work on a test ie. not have known normal means of identification?

Akhenaten:
After reading your last few posts, and this one in particular, I don't think contacting your universtity is going to be enough to stop the madness. You have serious problems, and I'm concerned that you're moving out of the "Mostly Harmless" category.
Would you please tell me why? Explain, don't just complain. Be very specific so that I can understand, but without the *yelling* or *personal criticism*.
 
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UncaYimmy's list looked okay, I don't have any medical knowledge to help you with any other ailments.
I'm wondering if is is a good idea to ask strangers in parks about personal things like breast enhancements, they may find it embaressing or funny and lie about it, that's why you would be better off trying it with the skeptics as volunteers, at least they would take it seriously. Random people in parks can be quite odd.
 
Hokulele:
How the hell can someone be pregnant on a scale of 1 to 5?
I haven't posted the health form yet, but not all questions come with a scale of extent associated with them. For pregnancy, it then asks how far along is she, "few days", "month", "2-5 months", "6-9 months" and the volunteer circles the option that best fits.

The question that asks about removed organs then asks "kidney", "gall bladder", "appendix", and also without asking for "the extent of removal". ;)

Vasectomy asks no additional questions.

So it depends on the particular ailment what is asked after that. I will post the health form once it is finalized and you will all be able to critique on it. I'm glad you brought that up Hokulele.
 
UncaYimmy:
You have repeatedly quoted very liberally and copiously from our earlier Facebook Chat and revealed plenty of things that I had said and you interpreted the context of what was said in your own manner.
I only dispute your use of the word "copiously." Our first few chats were well over an hour. No way did I come close to covering everything.

I use quotes where I feel your exact words are important. I rarely if ever quote a complete sentence. I agree that I "revealed plenty of things" but in the manner seen in this sentence. That's fair use. It's a balance between relaying the idea and providing quotes to justify my interpretation.

I posted our recent conversation as an attempt to provide an accurate representation of what was actually said.
You should have asked for permission, especially since I recently refused to chat with you, exchange e-mails, or talk to you on the phone, all of which you requested. I also told everyone here what transpired between us in that regard.

For instance by quoting how I had claimed a possible Nobel prize for myself as if I had brought up the topic you introduced what we said in a manner that allowed plenty of misinterpretation. It was in fact you who brought up the topic that the paranormal claimant would not receive the Nobel prize at which I just said that I think it should go to the person with the ESP. I have been tolerant and overlooked plenty of cases where I felt that you had acted inappropriately with the private conversation that was between the two of us in our earliest conversations.
I think you need a timeout. It seems like you want to engage in bickering, which is frowned upon by the moderators because it is not productive or relevant. Suffice it to say you have initiated all of the chats. In fact about 500 posts ago you told everyone that perhaps I was ignoring you because almost a whole day passed without a response after your repeated PMs asking me to join you in a chat.

During those chats I explored the boundaries and tested you. I felt I was being manipulated the whole time and responded in kind. I advised at least one other member of this via PM. I have publicly stated that there was some flirting going on. If you had any issues with my conduct, why would you continue to initiate chats with me even after I refused to chat with you last time?

Seriously. Drop it.

The fact that you could not simply tell me to delete the post of the conversation (since it is still open for me for editing or removal) and choose to report it is bad manner considering what was agreed between the two of us in advance.
I disagree about what you believe we "agreed" to.

You have turned to constant complaining and a very negative manner of expressing yourself. Your contributions here are no longer productive and you seem to be working against me and my investigation. And as of now I will not be reading your posts.
I have never worked with you. I have repeatedly stated that the only reason you should be tested is to prove to you that you have no abilities. I think others will make up their own minds about my productivity in regards to your claims.

However, I have changed my tactics, that much is true. I let you think you were taking me where you wanted me to go when in fact I didn't go anywhere I didn't want to. Unfortunately, that well is dry (you stopped responding in the moderated thread when things didn't go as you wanted). Now I have chosen to push things in a different direction. You don't like it - that much is obvious.

Feel free to put me on ignore. If you wish to argue over who is in the right regarding the public postings of our chat, send me a PM. I will respond. If you do it here, I will not. It is off-topic and will probably lead to bickering, which is something the Mods don't want.
 
Hokulele:
I haven't posted the health form yet, but not all questions come with a scale of extent associated with them.


All of those scales are bogus. Drop every single one of them and only list things that have a yes/no answer or you are simply introducing noise into your data.

As has been explained to you repeatedly.
 
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Comments on the Study Procedure, Part 1

Chapter IV - A New Beginning . . .


Location and Arrangements


Vision from Feeling said:
This is so that the volunteers are gathered at and fill in their health forms at a location that the claimant can not see, so to reduce the availability for the claimant to receive clues about what the volunteers have answered or from their behavior pattern or movement. The locations need only be places where people can have a seat and there are currently no special requirements on the location.


So you're going to set up the logistic equivalent of a polling booth, with semi-private form-filling-in areas, waiting areas (with seating), form collection points, ushers, information disseminators etc.

This is beyond you.



Vision from Feeling said:
Claimant will take notes on whether the details of the location have any adverse effects on her claimed medical perceptions.


Since The ClaimantVfF has sole responsibility for choosing the location, why would she not choose one without adverse effects?



Vision from Feeling said:
The claimant has received notice from six members of the FACT (Forsyth Area Critical Thinkers) Skeptics Group of Winston Salem North Carolina who have expressed interest in participating in the study.


"Experessed interest" is all you have so far. You know that the participation of FACT is dependant on approval by their members of this very document, in the form in which it will be presented, yet you state clearly at the top of the page that:


The procedure outlined here is still under editing
until this document says FINAL VERSION
This is Version 2​


As usual, you don't got nuffink at all, as yet.



Vision from Feeling said:
A sign is prepared for the study and placed at location-1. It introduces the study and asks for persons 18 years and older to volunteer for the study.


I would dearly love to see video of people's reaction to a first reading of this sign.



Vision from Feeling said:
The claimant prepares the sign and also prepares the information page and health forms that are required for the study.


ClaimantVfF to what again exactly? I've forgotten.
 
UncaYimmy:
You should have asked for permission, especially since I recently refused to chat with you, exchange e-mails, or talk to you on the phone, all of which you requested. I also told everyone here what transpired between us in that regard.
I have not once asked to send you an e-mail. You have given me your e-mail address on at least two occasions and invited me to e-mail you with any material. You even asked me to send you pictures of me to your e-mail account, which I did not do. You on the other hand seemed very eager to speak with me in the first chat and expressed some very personal thoughts and feelings of yours and information about your background and life.
I think you need a timeout. It seems like you want to engage in bickering, which is frowned upon by the moderators because it is not productive or relevant.
No Honeybunches, it is pretty clear from reading our posts that I am the one trying to stay on topic whereas you guys try to do bickering and to steer away from the topic of investigation. I am trying to not engage in bickering. It is quite obvious. And I just told you that you haven't been productive or relevant, whereas I am trying to post material about the study etc.
you stopped responding in the moderated thread when things didn't go as you wanted
School keeps me busy. The only reason I have time to still be posting here tonight is because it is 1:30 am and I am working real hard to get the study together for this weekend.
If you do it here, I will not. It is off-topic and will probably lead to bickering, which is something the Mods don't want.
I think the Mods love bickering because you guys have gotten away with quite a lot of it here lately. So, if this post of mine comes across as bickering, then please allow this single one for me. It was my turn.

I will now return back to work and not engage in this nonsense. I will remain active in this thread until a conclusion is reached in my investigation. If any of you are interested in contributing to my investigation I am grateful and I do read your suggestions carefully. I will no longer consider personal insults or unfounded criticism that is based on misunderstandings or malevolent intent.
 
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UncaYimmy's list looked okay, I don't have any medical knowledge to help you with any other ailments.
I'm wondering if is is a good idea to ask strangers in parks about personal things like breast enhancements, they may find it embaressing or funny and lie about it, that's why you would be better off trying it with the skeptics as volunteers, at least they would take it seriously. Random people in parks can be quite odd.

Random people in the park are leery of anybody approaching them. Hell, people don't even like being asked to sign a petition on the way out of the grocery store, and that only takes a minute. Imagine asking people to give you 20 minutes to divulge personal health information and then be stared at while unable to speak, instead sitting there with one thumb in the mouth and the other in the butt, playing switch.

You bring up an excellent point about random people in the park being odd. Back in my college days I would have made a mockery of the entire thing, saying I had breast implants (I'm a guy), a hemorrhoidectomy, and pain when I urinate.

Who's actually likely to agree to a test in the park besides the crazy/homeless people and obnoxious sods like myself 20+ years ago?

There are a lot of potentially embarrassing ailments, which is why there is a check box asking if the subject left anything out for personal reasons. It is by no means complete, but with over 100 possible things to detect, it is more than sufficient. It's detailed enough to determine hits and misses with a reasonable degree of certainty.

Thing is, Anita has not provided any valid reason for not using my form or doing the test at the skeptics meeting. She's manipulating those who haven't studied this thread into thinking that she's actually making progress. She's not.

Go read this moderated thread between Anita and myself to get a good feel for what's really going on.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131343

Pay close attention to this post where I outline her history of "testing" since she has been here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=4335911#post4335911
 
Akhenaten:
Akhenaten said:
After reading your last few posts, and this one in particular, I don't think contacting your universtity is going to be enough to stop the madness. You have serious problems, and I'm concerned that you're moving out of the "Mostly Harmless" category.


Would you please tell me why? Explain, don't just complain. Be very specific so that I can understand, but without the *yelling* or *personal criticism*.


Certainly. The game you're playing, for whatever reason, is spreading beyond just your personal fantasyland, and is beginning to have tangible effects on people in the real world. I'll cite FACT and UncaYimmy as particular examples.

I have no emotional investment in this thread and no reason whatever to yell at people, which looks like this:

Akhenaten said:
LOOK OUT FOR THAT SHADUF!


The "Mostly Harmless" bit is just an oblique reference to the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which you should read. Especially the parts dealing with the Infinite Improbability Drive, one of which you appear to have.



Now, here is the entire post you were pretending to answer, without your somewhat dishonest snippage:


Vision from Feeling said:
Since everyone is curious,
Facebook Chat between VisionFromFeeling and UncaYimmy January 28 2009:


Your post appears directly after UncaYimmy's post which is the first mention of this conversation. How have you determined that everyone is curious?



Vision from Feeling said:
<snipped musings of a cyber-stalker>


After reading your last few posts, and this one in particular, I don't think contacting your universtity is going to be enough to stop the madness. You have serious problems, and I'm concerned that you're moving out of the "Mostly Harmless" category.

You were a Mayday, but now you're starting to go all Caligula. Scary.


Care to answer the whole thing?



ETA: PS Do you like my picture of everybody's favourite star?
 
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"She's manipulating those who haven't studied this thread into thinking that she's actually making progress."

I have been following this thread, it's fascinating.

If Anita gives up on the skeptics she's not going to have any trouble finding supporters in the Woo crowd, who will reinforce her beliefs without questioning them, which is why it is good to see her still pointing in the scientific test direction even though the path to get there is ever so meandering.
 
"She's manipulating those who haven't studied this thread into thinking that she's actually making progress."

I have been following this thread, it's fascinating.
Sorry, I don't recall seeing you posting in this thread before, so I just assumed you were new to it. My bad. However, my point still stands in that she's acting like she's actually doing something. You know, like writing a letter to the parks people who already said there was no reason she couldn't go to the park.

If Anita gives up on the skeptics she's not going to have any trouble finding supporters in the Woo crowd, who will reinforce her beliefs without questioning them, which is why it is good to see her still pointing in the scientific test direction even though the path to get there is ever so meandering.
No doubt. But that won't win her the Nobel.
 
No, it won't win her the Nobel but it might delay her setting up a booth at the fair ground :)
 
And do note, that extrasensory perception is somewhat on the bottom of my list of expected possibilities.

Yet...

Jim: I told you before, you cannot be the scientist and the subject. A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient.
VFF: Yes I am worried about that. <snip>
Well, I simply refuse to give away the biggest discovery of all time to someone else. If I in fact have ESP then I want all the credit.
Jim: Blah blah blah. I am ending this chat because you do not listen.
VFF: I am listening!
I just disagree on a few points.
What if you climbed Mt. Everest and your gym teacher got the prize?
That's kind of how I feel about that.
 
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