Vision From Feeling 2

[VisionFromFeeling]

Here we go again...

Regarding your survey with Dr Carlson
"In short, I marked several ailments to the lowest extent that he did not mark. There was a very significant ailment that I detected but I did not mark on my questionnaire, because I was worried about being wrong. "
http://visionfromfeeling.com/study.html
These aren't really positive results, do you find them discouraging?

I am very happy with the reading I had with Dr. Carlson as the volunteer, I learned a lot. After the reading I asked him whether he would permit me to disclose the details of our reading, and he allowed. I handed both mine and his questionnaires for him so that we don't have to suspect me of tampering with them. Before I receive the photocopies of the questionnaires I can only go from memory, and we should also consider Dr. Carlson's version of the reading and not mine only.

I marked I think four different joint or bone issues all to an extent of 1 on a scale of 1 to 5. (Please see this copy of the questionnaire format that was used, in order to better follow along in this discussion.) None of which he had marked. I marked those ailments not as pain or muscle problems. I think we might have another problem such as "Wayne's adam's apple". In a reading with Wayne as I was looking for health problems, I wrote down that I sensed something in his throat, which I concluded as being the adam's apple, without any health problems to it. Just that I sensed it. I do sense healthy things as well, like normal heartbeat or the movement of breathing lungs as well. It could be that I was sensing Dr. Carlson's healthy bones and joints.

It's ok. I am supposed to run into problems in my study, I am supposed to be making explanations and figuring out ways to work through the problems so that I can design a test that works both for me as the claimant and that meets the quality requirements of a test. I've run into the problem that I am noting things that I sense that are not health problems. If I find a way to distinguish these I might come through with a better performance.

Of course I consider misses and not only the hits. I was very interested in the discrepancies as well. However my performance overall in the past three readings with FACT Skeptics as volunteers has not falsified the claim, so I proceed. This is the stage where I try things out and warm-up.

And then there is the second problem that I need to work through. The fact that I did not record one very significant health information in one person, and recorded a lower extent than what I actually perceived from another ailment in the other person, on purpose. I was too afraid to be wrong about Dr. Carlson missing a left kidney even though I detected this, and I didn't want to insult the other person by saying that I sensed that she has anxiety to an extent of 2 or 3, so I wrote a modest 1. Darn it. I must tell myself to no longer be modest in future attempts. This is the purpose of the study, to allow the claimant to try out their claim in more controlled settings and to identify possible complaints that arise, so that I can make changes to the procedure or make changes to the way I practice my claimed ability. And if my performance is still inadequate then I have nothing to say.

Knowing how I truly perceived, and knowing that these two above described complications on my part may have been the cause for discrepancy, and believing that my skill might still be good enough and be better than it came across in these readings, I will proceed, knowing that I can make changes to work around these complications and only if these issues still arise will I consider them more deeply.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

B.t.w. can you actually detect this [menstruation] in any woman? since you have never mentioned so before.

I think I could detect it in any woman. Of course I don't assume that I can until I have experienced it. No aspect of my claim is based on what I "think" I can do, they are all based on what I think I have already done. Do keep in mind I do not continuously read people, so I don't see this particular information very often. I was making the effort to search this person "head-to-toe", as I call it. Menstruation is now included in the study health questionnaires.

Also, have you done anything about the detecting moles we talked about in the other thread. That would also be easy to test, right?

This would be too tricky to include in the study where persons of the public are the volunteers, since to try my ability on detecting moles I would actually want the volunteer to uncover part of their clothing to show what it looks like. I might do this one with college students. Normally, I would consider college students too healthy as volunteers for the study, but for moles I would prefer skin that is otherwise healthy!

 

[Kariboo]

I marked I think four different joint or bone issues all to an extent of 1 on a scale of 1 to 5. None of which he had marked.

So that is 4 misses

You also missed pain x4, a swallowing problem , you missed a missing kidney, you falsely found a heart problem

I do sense healthy things as well, like normal heartbeat or the movement of breathing lungs as well.

No you don't, you always claim to find discrepancies from normal

I am supposed to be making explanations

Nope, you are supposed to do as you claim

Of course I consider misses and not only the hits.

Where?

has not falsified the claim

Yes, you just did. Also you did in the past but you will keep doing what you have been doing: every time your claim does not match up with what you can actually do, you will come up with some kind of explanation, exception, different circumstance, story, "I knew it but didn't say so", "I said it but didn't mean it", "I almost knew it", " I thought so but changed my mind " , "I can do a million easily testable things but refuse to because I want to claim something I can weasel my way out of forever", I was feeling cold, warm, dry, wet, I made a silly Swedish mistake, whatever ^TM forever _ad ^infinitum

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

One FACT member said that based on what's been taking place a the JREF Forums he doesn't see why I keep going there because it doesn't do me any good, and I said that well, I just go there lately to make fun of the Skeptics there. To have fun with them.

So why do you want to discuss anything here in a civil way? you don't seem to extend that courtesy

It's funny how after all I wrote about the recent Skeptics meeting, this particular thing was brought up many times by JREF Forum Skeptics who then go sour and act childish. First of all, it was a Swedish type-o. (See my recent added comment to it at www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html) I meant to have "fun with". Anyhow, this is proven if you search the other JREF Threads you can find lots of those silly funny posts I've been making, and I don't think you can find any posts I've made where I actually make "fun of" anyone. I don't make fun of Skeptics. I need my Skeptics.

Forum Skeptics behavior example #1: From a list of multiple various forms of comments, Skeptics are bound to pick out ones that contribute to bickering rather than to real progress in a paranormal claim.

(...) = miss and hedging your bets (...)

I haven't posted the full details of the two readings. I actually made many hits that I haven't posted yet because I await the photocopies of the questionnaires. So hold on there. Wait for the full story.

Some misses because you don't sense something that is there, some misses because you sense something that isn't there. Which by your account disproves your ability.

Nope.

"One FACT member said that based on what's been taking place a the JREF Forums he doesn't see why I keep going there because it doesn't do me any good, and I said that well, I just go there lately to make fun of the Skeptics there. To have fun with them."

There is absolutely no way I'm going to be able to take this person or her claims seriously after this statement.

Hah. I meant "fun with". I meant all the silly posts I've been making in the other threads.

Forum Skeptics behavior example #2: Jumping into conclusions then placing full belief into those false assumptions before awaiting the actual evidence to back it up. I have not made any such posts where I "make fun of" Skeptics.

***Do not censor my posts. They are not intended as negative toward the Skeptics. If my recent posts are censored I will not return to the JREF since I am not allowed to answer questions, clear out misconceptions, or to give my side of the story.***

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

As well, Anita reported that she 'perceived' that the subject's reproductive system was red and inflamed, which led her to conclude menstruation. But, there are other conditions that could have the same result - endometriosis, cervical cancer, ovarian cysts, pelvic inflammatory disease, among others. It would be difficult to determine the source of the inflammation.

First I saw that the uterus was red and possibly inflamed. I looked closer and saw large amounts of fresh blood. So I asked the person whether she had her period. I was absolutely sure of it. I would never have mistaken what I saw for anything else.

 

[fromdownunder]

Hah. I meant "fun with". I meant all the silly posts I've been making in the other threads.

OK, so troll behaviour by disrupting other threads is good in your mind. Noted.

And your promised support for abr on this thread is just one of your "silly posts". You should let him know that you are joking. I think he, at least, takes his "paranormal power" seriously, really wants to do a test, so playing games with him may not be a good ifea.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136649&page=4

Norm

 

[Kariboo]

Some misses because you don't sense something that is there, some misses because you sense something that isn't there. Which by your account disproves your ability.

Nope.

Nope? You falsely identified four different joint or bone issues, you missed pain x4, a swallowing problem , you missed a missing kidney, you falsely found a heart problem

How does this not disprove your claimed ability

***Do not censor my posts. They are not intended as negative toward the Skeptics. If my recent posts are censored I will not return to the JREF since I am not allowed to answer questions, clear out misconceptions, or to give my side of the story.***

What? no one is censoring your posts. Whether you choose to stay here or not is your decision.

 

[desertgal]

First I saw that the uterus was red and possibly inflamed. I looked closer and saw large amounts of fresh blood. So I asked the person whether she had her period. I was absolutely sure of it. I would never have mistaken what I saw for anything else.

Your original question was whether "menstruation would be a good candidate for a real test?". You said on your website that you observed "that her internal female system was red or inflamed."

So, from that, we were supposed to know, when attempting to answer your original question, that you also saw "large amounts of fresh blood"?

See, this is one of the problems we all ran into in the last thread. You ask a question, we respond based on the information that you provided, and then you come back and argue and tell us how wrong we are, basing your argument on information that you had not previously revealed.

How can you possibly expect a fair discussion if you are just going to play these types of games?

In a reading with Wayne as I was looking for health problems, I wrote down that I sensed something in his throat, which I concluded as being the adam's apple, without any health problems to it. Just that I sensed it.

And there you go, changing your story again. You've gone from sensing "slight discomfort" to simply sensing "something".

From your website:

I detected a very slight discomfort at the throat, but I clearly wrote down that it is very minor and it is not something I would describe as an "ailment". Besides I was fully convinced that what I was feeling was his adam's apple. I drew a picture of the exact size and location of this sensation, which correlates with the adam's apple so that's probably what it was.

The adam's apple does not cause discomfort. You were wrong.

It was some bony structure in the front part of the throat.

The adam's apple is not bony. It is made of cartilage. You were wrong.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Anita, would you say that the likelihood of you actually having a paranormal ability has decreased in you eyes since you came to this forum?

Nope.

"I just go there lately to make fun of the Skeptics there. To have fun with them."

Pffft. Bravado. Gimpiest kid in the playground...

How much do you want to bet that she comes back and tries to convince us that she was just joking with the FACT member, and that it wasn't even worth mentioning, even though she did?

Read the explanation at www.visionfromfeeling.com/study.html. Unlike many of the JREF Forum Skeptics, I have not posted any hostile or negative posts toward anyone.

If this person had anything like the "ability" claimed they would not be wasting their time here -- we would be reading about it in reputable journals and the media generally. It would be a worldwide sensation.

Should I stand on a soapbox and announce it to the world?

Their presence here tells me one thing only: fraud, whether intentional or not.

Nope.

She is a willing liar and deliberate FRAUD and thats all she has ever been.

I am not and never have been.

The first lie. It was closed after many pleadings,legitimate suggestions and OBFUSCATION on her part.

Why don't we ask the moderators what was the real reason why the thread was closed?

"Hostile" is the scammers cry when they are about to be exposed.

"Hostile" is personal attacks etc. that some of you Forum Skeptics are responsible for. I am not a scammer. And I am not avoiding having the claim falsified.

More lies and obfuscations. She knows her claim is a self aggrandizing LIE and she deliberately puts herself in a position to NOT be proven so. It hasnt been "falsified" because she will NOT allow it to be established in the first place. ( scammers and frauds NEVER allow themselves to be pinned down)

My claim is absolutely fascinating and based on sincere accounts. Of course it is falsifiable, but hasn't been falsified yet.

I'm an "attention ho" and I want it to be about me,me,me ( as long as I can duck proving I have an actual ability in the first place)

It is about my unusual experience of perceiving visual and felt health information that correlates with actual health information in persons. And I am working very hard to put the study together and to move forward to a real test.

I need attention and if you keep accusing me of what you are now seeing I'm guilty of it wil be moderated and closed and I will cry and lose the attention I so crave.

I am here to discuss the claim and readings and the study and test. I can get the attention I need in my life from elsewhere. From people who are actually loving.

Then you cannot talk about ME ME ME

I am talking about my paranormal claim and investigation.

I'm a liar,fraud and hoaxer and i dont want any of you reminding me of that. I want thos to go on so the focus is forever on ME ME ME. "Skeptics" are big "meanies" and the enemy and i want people to listen to me, believe me, have sympathy for me. As long as its ME ME ME.

What the h*ll is wrong with you? I am not a liar, not a fraud, not a hoax. The focus is on the experience of medical perceptions. Skeptics are the most valuable resource I have in investigating my claim. And I won't want anyone to believe in me without the evidence to back it up. All I am asking is for tolerance toward that I believe in my anecdotal experiences, which were not documented or turned into evidence in the past.

Is there a reason, other than the obvious, that you have ignored my suggestion to take the pill samples you are having problems with to the health and beauty department of your local supermarket, there to use your powers to look inside the packages and compare those samples with?

I'm sorry I never saw that suggestion before. It is a very good one, but I would have to open the packages.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

You also missed pain x4, a swallowing problem , you missed a missing kidney, you falsely found a heart problem

I did miss four accounts of pain. I did miss a swallowing problem. I did not miss a missing kidney but I chose not to write it because I worried about being wrong. I did not falsely find a heart problem.

No you don't, you always claim to find discrepancies from normal

When medical perceptions come to me on their own, it highlights health problems. When I search for information, I find all sorts of things healthy and unhealthy.

Nope, you are supposed to do as you claim

I am supposed to conduct the study leading to a more specific claim.

Of course I consider misses and not only the hits.

Where?

On my website, in my posts, when I presented the results of the reading at the Skeptics meeting, and in my upcoming description of the specifics of the two readings.

The claim has not been falsified.

OK, so troll behaviour by disrupting other threads is good in your mind. Noted.

I am also helping the other claimants with their paranormal claims, intending to help them toward a paranormal test if they do have some ability, or to conclude and say goodbye if there is no ability.

And your promised support for abr on this thread is just one of your "silly posts". You should let him know that you are joking. I think he, at least, takes his "paranormal power" seriously, really wants to do a test, so playing games with him may not be a good ifea.

Did I say all my posts were just fun? Those are quite serious. Whatever. Some Skeptics think what they choose to think.

 

[desertgal]

Unlike many of the JREF Forum Skeptics, I have not posted any hostile or negative posts toward anyone.

Would you really like me to go back to the first thread and show all the posts where you accused people of having schizotypal disorder-people who had not offered any opinion on your mental health? Like Cuddles. Like Ashles. Like Anna Karenina. AND all the posts where you were hostile and negative? I'd be happy to.

You are not angelic. Stop pretending that you are.

 

[desertgal]

Yes, you just did. Also you did in the past but you will keep doing what you have been doing: every time your claim does not match up with what you can actually do, you will come up with some kind of explanation, exception, different circumstance, story, "I knew it but didn't say so", "I said it but didn't mean it", "I almost knew it", " I thought so but changed my mind " , "I can do a million easily testable things but refuse to because I want to claim something I can weasel my way out of forever", I was feeling cold, warm, dry, wet, I made a silly Swedish mistake, whatever ^TM forever _ad ^infinitum

Bingo.

Any objective reasoning on our parts will lead to Anita whining that we are "censoring" her posts.

LE said it best - for Anita, this thread is merely to bring the attention back to "me, me, me".

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Nope? You falsely identified four different joint or bone issues, you missed pain x4, a swallowing problem , you missed a missing kidney, you falsely found a heart problem

How does this not disprove your claimed ability

I suspect that the four joint or bone issues were due to the same reasons that made me report "Wayne's adam's apple". I never sensed nor reported pain in the joints or bones, and I listed it to an extent of 1. What did it feel like to me, you should ask? All it was, was that I "felt" the joints and bones in some areas of his body more so than in other areas so I thought that he "feels" them too. I learn from this study how to practice my claim.

In my defence the location was very noisy and also cold and I was also stressed by a 15 minute time limit. I did not finish the "head-to-toe" to the extent I would have chosen to. This is a study, not a test. The study is intended for me to try out various things, such as the use of a questionnaire, the use of a time limit, etc. I do not conclude too soon neither for or against the ability in the study. So I missed pain and swallowing problem.

I did not miss the missing left kidney. I perceived this, but I did not write this down being afraid of being wrong. Whatever you might think of me, I would never sink so low to lie about this. I have great respect for Dr. Carlson and for him volunteering for the study and for disclosing personal information like this. I would never disrespect him by being dishonest about this. All I can do is to be sincere, even when it means saying things that some of you can't tolerate.

The heart problem was not false.

See, this is one of the problems we all ran into in the last thread. You ask a question, we respond based on the information that you provided, and then you come back and argue and tell us how wrong we are, basing your argument on information that you had not previously revealed.

How can you possibly expect a fair discussion if you are just going to play these types of games?

I apologize for having done that. It's just that we are analyzing everything in great detail and that is why more details always come up. It is not easy being a paranormal claimant.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Would you really like me to go back to the first thread and show all the posts where you accused people of having schizotypal disorder-people who had not offered any opinion on your mental health? Like Cuddles. Like Ashles. Like Anna Karenina. AND all the posts where you were hostile and negative? I'd be happy to.

Certainly. Just don't take them out of context, be sure to include everything that lead up to them. And, ahem. Who is it who constantly accuses me of being delusional and mentally ill? Even though I have none of the symptoms. I just have symptoms of this being synesthesia.

 

[desertgal]

I'm sorry I never saw that suggestion before. It is a very good one, but I would have to open the packages.

Why? You said you 'saw' and were able to identify Lactobacillus through a cereal box. You also said: "I once looked at an unknown pill. I felt its vibrational aspect and combined it with the vibrational aspect of a human body in general to observe the results. I felt that the medicine is in fact a dangerous liver-toxin, and that the body responds with panic by flushing it out of the body and the kidneys with absolutely heaps of water, to the point of nearly dehydrating itself just to get rid of it."

Why can't you identify Pup's samples through the "vibrational aspect"? Failing that, why do you need to take the medications out of the packages when you can identify other substances, such as bacteria, inside a package?

 

[desertgal]

Certainly. Just don't take them out of context, be sure to include everything that lead up to them. And, ahem. Who is it who constantly accuses me of being delusional and mentally ill? Even though I have none of the symptoms. I just have symptoms of this being synesthesia.

No, I don't have to include what led up to them. You accused Cuddles, Ashles, and Anna Karenina of having schizotypal disorder. Period. Out of the blue. It doesn't matter what led up to it - none of them had offered any opinion whatsoever on your mental health. But, of course, you will lie and say that you didn't mean it that way, or some such nonsense.

You have three of the symptoms of schizotypal disorder. You even AGREED that you have three of the symptoms. But, of course, now you will change your story. Again.

You have no symptoms of synesthesia. That's just your fall back position.

You've offered no proof that you aren't delusional. You've offered no proof that you aren't a scammer. You've offered no proof that you aren't a fraud. You've offered no proof that you haven't convinced yourself of something that isn't true. You've offered no proof of ANYTHING. Just words, and more words, and evasions, and obfuscations, and lies, and dodges, and irrationality, and immaturity, and repulsive arrogance.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

At this point I am focusing on the paranormal claim. As for all the other interesting perceptions I've had they are not part of my investigation at this point.

Athlete: I think I can run the marathon and have a good chance of winning!
Desertgal: Yes, but you also said that you could swim.
Athlete: Yes, I've done that a few times before...
Desertgal: Alright! It's also a similar ability! Why don't you swim across the English channel?
Athlete: Yes, but I wanted to prove my other skills. And I'm not quite that good of a swimmer.
Desertgal: But it would be so easy to prove. Why are you avoiding tests? We could have this test right away and over with. You are a liar.
Athlete: When did I lie? I mean... yes, I have swam before, and been quite good at it I guess, but I wanted to see if I am exceptionally good at long-distance running!
Desertgal: I think you are delusional. There is no evidence.
Athlete: Yes, and that's why I want to prove it!
Desertgal: ... Why don't you swim across the channel?

 

[TSR]

I did not miss the missing left kidney. I perceived this, but I did not write this down being afraid of being wrong.

.
But, according to you, you are never wrong. So why this time, over something this major?
.

I apologize for having done that. It's just that we are analyzing everything in great detail and that is why more details always come up. It is not easy being a paranormal claimant.

.
Especially when one cannot do what one claims to be able to. How many times are you going go back and change what you claim rather than supply all the information up front?
.

I just have symptoms of this being synesthesia.

.
No, you don't. Which is why you have never seen a doctor who could tell you so.
.

I'm sorry I never saw that suggestion before. It is a very good one, but I would have to open the packages.

.
Why ever would you need to do that? Not only do you claim to be able "see" inside a variety of containers, including the human body, but you have specifically claimed to be able to see inside the packaging of a box of cereal.

What is it about the package of an antihistamine which prevents this miraculous ability of yours which doesn't prevent you from seeing into tanks of gas?

.

 

[desertgal]

At this point I am focusing on the paranormal claim. As for all the other interesting perceptions I've had they are not part of my investigation at this point.

Athlete: I think I can run the marathon and have a good chance of winning!
Desertgal: Yes, but you also said that you could swim.
Athlete: Yes, I've done that a few times before...
Desertgal: Alright! It's also a similar ability! Why don't you swim across the English channel?
Athlete: Yes, but I wanted to prove my other skills. And I'm not quite that good of a swimmer.
Desertgal: But it would be so easy to prove. Why are you avoiding tests? We could have this test right away and over with. You are a liar.
Athlete: When did I lie? I mean... yes, I have swam before, and been quite good at it I guess, but I wanted to see if I am exceptionally good at long-distance running!
Desertgal: I think you are delusional. There is no evidence.
Athlete: Yes, and that's why I want to prove it!
Desertgal: ... Why don't you swim across the channel?

Oh, now we are down to fantasy conversations from Anita that have nothing to do with anything. Just another way for her to obfuscate, dodge, avoid, delay, etc, etc, etc.

 

[VisionFromFeeling]

Allright Ms. All-I-wanna-talk-about-is-mental-illness. People can read the thread on their own and find out the background of all of that. And I do not have schizotypal disorder, and I do have synesthesia. Can we focus on what this thread is all about?