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Visa express program: Just another coincidence?

busherie said:
Wow, bad memory, it was fleischer, telling "don't say anything yet"

In the back of the room, Press Secretary Ari Fleischer catches Bush’s eye and holds up a pad of paper for him to read, with “DON’ T SAY ANYTHING YET” written on it in big block letters. [Washington Times, 10/7/2002] (Note that three articles claim that Bush leaves the classroom at 9:12 a.m.) [New York Times, 9/16/2001; Daily Telegraph, 12/16/2001; Daily Mail, 9/8/2002] However, a videotape of the event lasts for “at least seven additional minutes” and ends before Bush leaves.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...tles=on&descriptions=on&dosearch=on&search=Go

Sorry about that.

But it's roughly the same idea.
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The other cue card said "The Mineta Protocol is in Effect."
 
busherie said:
Saudi Arabia, a country where Al Qaida got its leader and many operatives from. Is it a friendly country? Officially yes, but come on, don't think the US administration are stupids.
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Actually I think you'll find many people here do think the US Administration are "stupids".

-Gumboot
 
We really need to teach those Consular folks in Saudi Arabia to read properly. One glance at the terrorists' application form and the entire plot would have come unravelled:

NAME: Saeed Al-Ghamdi

NATIONALITY: Saudi

AGE: 26

GENDER: Male

RELIGION: Radical Islamic Extremism

OCCUPATION: International Terrorist

REASON FOR STAY IN USA: Martyr terrorist attack

LENGTH OF STAY: Indefinately
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-Gumboot
 
This thread is hilarious. The program has gone from being a suspicious coincidence to being the result of government stupidity. Maybe, if we're lucky, tomorrow it will go back to what it really was: An attempt to lighten the direct load on US Government offices and (as explained by ~enigma~) an effort to reduce potential civilian casualties if said offices were attacked.

The more I read and think about the program, the less suspicious, and the less "dangerous," it seems. The only difference between getting the visa from one of the approved travel agencies and the US Consulate or Embassy is that an American citizen doesn't necessarily eyeball the person applying - unless our State Department employees are blessed with psychic powers, they'd be no more likely to deny a visa application at their office than they would a visa application submitted remotely. And, heck, said visa recipients would still have had to present their documents to US Customs personnel upon arrival to the US.
 
Babbylonian said:
This thread is hilarious. The program has gone from being a suspicious coincidence to being the result of government stupidity. Maybe, if we're lucky, tomorrow it will go back to what it really was: An attempt to lighten the direct load on US Government offices and (as explained by ~enigma~) an effort to reduce potential civilian casualties if said offices were attacked.

The more I read and think about the program, the less suspicious, and the less "dangerous," it seems. The only difference between getting the visa from one of the approved travel agencies and the US Consulate or Embassy is that an American citizen doesn't necessarily eyeball the person applying - unless our State Department employees are blessed with psychic powers, they'd be no more likely to deny a visa application at their office than they would a visa application submitted remotely. And, heck, said visa recipients would still have had to present their documents to US Customs personnel upon arrival to the US.
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You are out of your mind.

The only other solution for this program to have been implemented in May 2001 in Saudi Arabia IS stupidity.

The head of visas was fired! Because normal people are not so blind as to ignore this program was "terrorist wanted" ad.

As long as no proog of govenment pushing for the program, VEP will remain as a big stupidity well used by the terrorists.

Busherie

PS: gravy i've considered your remarks. It's true it might well have been a mistake, people either didnt't know there was "off the charts" terrorists threats, or thought it was risk they were willing to take just to shortel the queues.
 
busherie said:
if you think it is, then you are just voluntarily ignoring reality. Step away from your deeply entranched beliefs: consider this program, consider the country, consider the context, is it REALLY just a coincidence?
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I think that if I where an evil gubmint mastermind wanting some terrorist to get into the country, the *last* thing I'd do would be to enable a program as Visa Express to facilitate that. Something a little more subtle, and non-public would be in order I think...

I guess that's why i failed Evil Overlord-ing 101...
 
asmodean said:
I think that if I where an evil gubmint mastermind wanting some terrorist to get into the country, the *last* thing I'd do would be to enable a program as Visa Express to facilitate that. Something a little more subtle, and non-public would be in order I think...

I guess that's why i failed Evil Overlord-ing 101...
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But then how could we leave obvious clues for pagan and busherie to find, so they can solve the mystery before a half-hour is over?
 
JimBenArm said:
But then how could we leave obvious clues for pagan and busherie to find, so they can solve the mystery before a half-hour is over?
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Dang! you're right of course. I better start thinking about these things or I will never be allowed to start on Advanced Evil Overlord-ing.
 
asmodean said:
I think that if I where an evil gubmint mastermind wanting some terrorist to get into the country, the *last* thing I'd do would be to enable a program as Visa Express to facilitate that. Something a little more subtle, and non-public would be in order I think...

I guess that's why i failed Evil Overlord-ing 101...
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good lord, plz think for just a second.

let's assume this was not a coincidence, it was clear the terrorists's names would be known. And therefore we would have known HOW they entered the US. No doubt they all entered using proper visas.

So why not use a secret system to facilitate their arrival?

Well, because using something secret that would be a lot more "visible" in the end than a casual visa express program that looked casual (even though such a program for a country known for its terrorsit activities, in a context where the threat was off the charts might ring a bell...)

But I as I find out, it's just another coincidence for you.
 
busherie said:
good lord, plz think for just a second.

let's assume this was not a coincidence, it was clear the terrorists's names would be known. And therefore we would have known HOW they entered the US. No doubt they all entered using proper visas.

So why not use a secret system to facilitate their arrival?

Well, because using something secret that would be a lot more "visible" in the end than a casual visa express program that looked casual (even though such a program for a country known for its terrorsit activities, in a context where the threat was off the charts might ring a bell...)

But I as I find out, it's just another coincidence for you.
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woo 101 was good to you huh doughboy bushbot.
 
busherie said:
You are out of your mind.

The only other solution for this program to have been implemented in May 2001 in Saudi Arabia IS stupidity.

The head of visas was fired! Because normal people are not so blind as to ignore this program was "terrorist wanted" ad.

As long as no proog of govenment pushing for the program, VEP will remain as a big stupidity well used by the terrorists.

Busherie

PS: gravy i've considered your remarks. It's true it might well have been a mistake, people either didnt't know there was "off the charts" terrorists threats, or thought it was risk they were willing to take just to shortel the queues.
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Then answer this: which terrorists would have been prevented from entering the U.S. had the express program not existed?
 
Mark:

Have you given any serious thought to (A)compiling all the research you have done into a Book, or (B) Approaching Popular Mechanics to publish your work as a follow up to their original debunking?

Honest question.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
Mark:

Have you given any serious thought to (A)compiling all the research you have done into a Book, or (B) Approaching Popular Mechanics to publish your work as a follow up to their original debunking?

Honest question.

TAM:)
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I haven't. I don't think I have much that's original to add. I don't consider myself a researcher at all. I just read the same material that's available to anyone. To me, research involves getting into primary sources, interviewing witnesses and investigators, etc. For instance, Mike Williams has done lots of work on FOIA requests. That's research, and it's a slog. That's the work the 9/11 deniers aren't willing to do.

My position is that I'd better have a compelling reason to try to re-involve witnesses, victims, and investigators in this business. They have better things to do. Most conspiracist claims are so easily debunked that there's no reason to do that.

The conspiracists, on the other hand, are trying to prove an earthshaking claim. Yet they aren't willing to go to the primary sources. That says everything you need to know about their commitment to the truth.

I will have a website up shortly with my WTC 7 paper, shorter things I've written that get requested fairly often (many of them posts here), and a few thousand categorized links. I think it will be a useful resource. Actually, I'd better get to that while I have the time today! :)
 
I see your points. The reason I ask, however, was spawned by the comment someone made of getting you to be on "The Daily Show". I know it would be a long shot, and so I thought well who does stewart often bring on his show...authors of a book he has read.

I eagerly await the completion of your website. It will no doubt be an invaluable tool in the war on "truth terra".

TAM:)
 
busherie said:
good lord, plz think for just a second.
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What can I say: I have.

busherie said:
let's assume this was not a coincidence, it was clear the terrorists's names would be known. And therefore we would have known HOW they entered the US. No doubt they all entered using proper visas.

So why not use a secret system to facilitate their arrival?
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Who said anything about a secret system?

busherie said:
Well, because using something secret that would be a lot more "visible" in the end than a casual visa express program that looked casual (even though such a program for a country known for its terrorsit activities, in a context where the threat was off the charts might ring a bell...)

But I as I find out, it's just another coincidence for you.
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Yep. Indeed. If you want to have terrorists enter the country and do their evil actions without rousing suspiscions about your involement you do *not* set something up that is, and I quote you "Because normal people are not so blind as to ignore this program was "terrorist wanted" ad."

ETA:The easiest thing to do, obviously is: nothing, since 16/19 hijacekrs got in *without* using the fast-track system
 
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