Vice Presidential Debate

Pence comes across as avoiding challenges to his statements, which while Kaine is a bit annoying in his interruptions, is showing that contrast and making Pence seemed either uninformed or evasive.

I think so far Kaine has it.
 
Ultimately there seems to be little correlation between who "wins" the veep debate according to conventional wisdom, polls, etc., and which ticket wins the election. So this is interesting but probably won't make the difference.
 
Pence stumbled bad on the question of how to thwart home-grown terrorism. And it opened another door for Kaine to pummel him and Trump.

The main thing I am seeing is that Pence does not defend attacks like Trump, which keeps giving Kaine a chance to restate and restate all of the Trumpisms that are the bane of that campaign. Kaine's interruptions may seem abrasive on the one hand (like Trump in fact), but he's using them to great effect.
 
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Pence just blamed the Russian invasion of Georgia on Obama and Clinton. It happened in 2008, when Bush was president. Oops.

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Pence seems irritated by the need to even be there and be challenged at all... which reminds me of a problem I've had with Clinton at times.
 
Pence whining about "insults" (pointing out things Donald really said). Does he forget who his running mate is? Reminds me of Donald complaining about Hillary running ads that are just him saying reprehensible crap.

Pence is lying about Donald praising Putin.

Pence trying to imply that the Clinton Foundation is a vehicle to take bribes. Of courses, the evidence for this doesn't exist. Kaine defends it by pointing out the fact that the CF is a highly rated charity and points out that the Trump foundation is the one that has been caught breaking the law. Pence out right lies and claims that only 10% of the CF money goes to charitable programs. The real figure is closer to 90%, and Kaine points that out.
 
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Pence trying to defend Donald calling Mexicans rapists by saying that some of them are criminals. As if there are no American rapists. And he said some of them are good people.
 
Pence seems to be largely unaware of the many Trumpisms Kaine has brought up, including the abortion thing just now. Playing dumb is not a winning strategy IMO.
 
Trebuchet said:
Pence just blamed the Russian invasion of Georgia on Obama and Clinton. It happened in 2008, when Bush was president. Oops.

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Russia didn't invade Georgia. This echo chamber is totally creepy. Go back to when it happened and read the thread. Look at the title, look at what I wrote a few posts in, read a bit more of events developing back then. Then understand how bizarre the echo signal is, and how lazy you are to have bought it. Do it, use the evidence the forum produced to understand how off these talking points are.

As to the "debate", both of those clowns are totally in that echo chamber, obvious from the 15 minutes I just watched, but the Trump sidekick is the much better "debater". The Green Party thing works quite well, apparently they use the commercial breaks to let Baraka insert some sense.
 
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Pence did a pretty good job of attacking Hillary, though lots of it was bs. He looked composed and level headed.

He did a terrible job of defending Donald. Though in his defense, Donald is basically impossible to defend.

I think the polls for the debate will be pretty close. Wouldn't be if most people think Pence won.
 
The VP debate: Pence attacks Putin in sharp break from Trump’s admiration for the Russian leader

Donald Trump’s running mate, Gov. Mike Pence, attacked Russian president Vladimir Putin as a “small and bullying leader” during Tuesday night’s vice-presidential debate — a sharp break from Trump’s own attitude toward Putin, which has been warm and conciliatory.

“The small and bullying leader of Russia is not dictating terms to the United States,” Pence said. “We have got to be able to lean into this with strong, broad-shouldered American leadership.”

Pence went on to call for U.S. military strikes against a key Russian military ally, the regime of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, if Assad’s regime threatened to move against a besieged rebel enclave around Aleppo, Syria.

“The provocations by Russia need to be met with American strength,” Pence said. “The United States of America should be prepared to use military force to strike military targets of the Assad regime.”
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Are Pence and Trump advocating the same foreign policies?

Here's what Trump had to say a few days ago:

Donald Trump: ‘Let Russia fight ISIS’ in Syria

Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump said the United States should let Russia fight it out against the Islamic State terrorist group in Syria, saying Syrian President Bashar Assad looks better to him than the alternative.
. . .
“And I’m saying, ‘Why are we knocking ISIS and yet at the same time we’re against Assad?’ Let them fight, take over the remnants. But more importantly, let Russia fight ISIS, if they want to fight ‘em … in Syria,” Mr. Trump said.

“Let Syria and ISIS fight. Why do we care?” he said.
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I found Pence to be potentially more dangerous than Trump, in that unlike Trump, he "appears" to be more clear and reasonable. He's spewing the same crap Trump does, but he does it with more elegance and is more eloquent and "calm" looking. Even I felt at times, almost "charmed" by his deliverance. I say only at times, because most times I was annoyed by his condescending tone and his dishonest attempts to basically avoid answering any important question being asked either by Kaine or by the moderator. Which, by the way, shame on the moderator for letting him go several times on not answering the question he was asked.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
[...] his dishonest attempts to basically avoid answering any important question being asked either by Kaine or by the moderator. Which, by the way, shame on the moderator for letting him go several times on not answering the question he was asked.
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What I saw was the moderator putting all her low energy into stopping him to talk about the Clinton server and instead open the absurd Aleppo parallel universe "discussion".
 
Aleppo is in a parallel universe? No wonder Johnson had no idea it existed.

But I am aware of it and the ongoing humanitarian crisis there....does that mean I'm from the same alternate universe?
 
According to the CNN instant poll, Pence won 48-42.

For comparison, Paul Ryan won 48-44 in 2012.

Donald might actually be upset about it. One, because Pence did much better than him thus making him look bad in comparison. And two because he failed to do the impossible job of defending the crap that comes out of Donald's mouth and Twitter.
 
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