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VFF Preliminary Kidney Detection Test

If I have followed events accurately, the claim is currently:

VfF can detect which person(s) of a group of people has a missing kidney, by looking at their backs for a period of time.
*The people can be clothed
*They must not be hidden behind a screen

Is this correct? Are there any other limitations on the claim?
What you have outlined is correct. Other limitations on the claim? Exactly how specific do I need to be, because before I know it someone is going to suggest something ridiculous and when I say I can't do the test like that then they are going to say that I am changing the claim. Let's see what other limitations...

The room needs light, ie. we don't turn the lights off
There should be air in the room, ie. the test can not take place under vacuum
It should be quiet during the test, ie. no construction work going on in the building next door
The pen that I use needs to work, ie. it should not have run out of ink or lead

Just because I don't outline obvious limitations to my claim doesn't mean that we can suggest things and then fuss at me when I object because I didn't outline it before.
 
The claim states that I need to see the surface of the body whether they are clothed or not. A flat screen does not give me an exact sense of distance to the person. Also, a screen does block the "vibrational information" that I claim to detect, which is why a partially see-through screen that did allow the outline of the person to be seen, also greatly reduces the quality of the perceptions.

This is a lie. A flat screen can give you the exact distance to the person - all we have to do is place people a few inches from it. How is a screen blocking "vibrational information" but not cloth made from the same material? If you are going to make up supernatural powers, please be consistent with them.

I can not detect a person/no person behind an opaque full-body screen. When I had medical perceptions of a person behind a full-body opaque screen it was because the person was leaning against the screen so I had some sense of where they are, but even at that my orientation in the body was severely thrown off.

Actually, you just stated you can detect someone behind a screen. All we have to do is provide an outline of where they would be placed and set a uniform distance to place the volunteer between the cloth. This fulfills all of the conditions that you claim your power works on, but you won't agree to them because it would provide a easy way to debunk your powers.

I will not do a remote viewing test to detect whether a person is or is not behind a screen. The claim is medical perceptions to detect the number of kidneys in a person, and I do require to see the clothed back of the person.

Thats lovely, but no one is proposing a remote viewing test. People are proposing you use your superpowers to detect organs/tissue/whatever from behind a screen made of the same material that clothes are made from.

By the way, you just typed up another lie - you earlier claimed that you were able to see organs through a screen, although you claimed it was hard because you were "disoriented" (your standard excuse when you fail).

I need an exact sense of where the person is. And I did not fail with the readings of FACT members. I do perceive through clothing, but only when I am looking straight at the surface of the body.

To see persons behind a screen is a claim of remote viewing. My claim is that I need to look at the surface of the person, whether clothed or not, in order for the perceptions to form. As soon as you lift that fabric barrier further from the surface of their skin and make it into a flat screen so that I do not know exactly where things are, the vibrational information is no longer available and my sense of orientation in the body is severely thrown off, and the claim can not perform under those conditions, and under those conditions it can not be tested.

Copying and pasting the same rant isn't going to change any of the facts - that you refuse to do the most simple and easy to set up protocol to test your medical perceptions claim. Its not remote viewing, and you know this. You know, months ago I thought you were just someone with delusions - severe delusions - but I thought you were at least sincere. You've revealed yourself to be a liar and a fraud over and over again though, so I won't make that mistake again.

"Since I don't have said powers" I should be expected to fail at the preliminary test whose protocol has been devised so far and never make it to an official test. We need Ray Hyman! He was able to falsify Natasha Demkina's claim with far less acceptable test conditions and with great courtesy toward the claimant.

No, you are setting up "preliminary tests" where you have a 1/10 chance of getting it right, very good odds. You are also setting them up in ways that are not scientific (not double blind) and that do not follow any reasonable research protocol. You could very well pass it using all the skills other woo con artists use.

At the very least it is able to falsify the claim, right? Since I can't see kidneys through a clothed back, can I? Because no one can, right?

No, it won't. Because you'll never set up a test that actually does this, nor will you agree to a simple test that falsifies the larger amount of your supernatural powers.

Yes you are! You are asking me to see people behind a screen!
And I can not do that unless the person is already leaning against the screen, ie. I would already know that they are there. As for some kind of decoy that produces a compression against the screen, the possible clues of there/not there in this test would be of far greater concern than whether one can see some sort of "magical twitching" and body language on a person's clothed back that reveal the number of kidneys.

No amount of your ranting is going to change the fact that using your superpower xray vision to detect flesh is not "remote viewing". Conditions have been proposed that would meet all of your claimed limitations of your superpower, but you have declined to test under such conditions because you are a fraud.

The study is OVER. I have defined a specific claim and submitted that for testing. I am unable to remote view through a screen.

No its not. Your claims have been all over the place, have changed daily, and you have not submitted any reasonable protocol.


Are we done, LightinDarkness? Or do you want us to go through all of this again?

Nope, were not done. I'm going to keep pointing out your lies and fraud attempts until you start another thread and go through all this again as you do every few months here. And then I'm going to keep debunking you until you put yourself through a real test that proves you have supernatural powers, which is never going to happen.
 
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A clarification, please:what do you mean by "look at the surface of the person"? You need to see their heads? I don;t understand what exactly you mean by "look at the surface" - I mean, if they're clothed, then you can't see the surface of any of their body except their face.
I need to look close to the surface of their body.
 
How many times do I need to say this? In order for my medical perceptions to occur, I need to have an accurate sense of distance to the person. I need to see the person. When I tried an opaque full-body screen at home I had a sense of where the person was because they were leaning against the screen. It did distort my sense of orientation in the body quite a bit though since I was having a hard time finding the kidneys. I will not do a remote viewing test to detect whether there is or is not a person behind a screen.

These concerns have been dealt with. First, they're irrelevant in that if you can see any of a person's insides (you even said you see subcutaneous fat, liver, spleen and heart), it's enough to know the person is there. No further orientation is need. Second, a rudimentary anatomy lesson would be sufficient to "orient". Third, we can have subjects stand on a pair of foot prints and stand straight facing a specified direction.

My claim is not remote viewing.
I know, it's some form of "x-ray vision". See my most recent post above. Your claim is very similar to the Russian girl's in the link I provided.
 
Just because I don't outline obvious limitations to my claim doesn't mean that we can suggest things and then fuss at me when I object because I didn't outline it before.


Actually it does. And if you had a modicum of understanding of how the process of science works, you'd be an idiot to think otherwise. That reluctance on your part to actually define the limits involved in your claim has been pretty much your biggest stumbling block. Obviously intentional. Well that, and the fact that...

Feel free to apply skepticism and call me a liar and a fraud.


You're a liar and a fraud.
 
Now go back to posting #720 in this thread. Read the quotes that UncaYimmy posted, quotes said by you, Anita. Then come clean and admit that you're a liar. It would go a long way towards helping you dig yourself out of the latrine that you've thrown yourself into. Because after all, it's no secret...
Dear GeeMack, read my reply to that post in #737 and admit that I have already answered to that post. Here, have a kidney in a box: :boxedin: We are handing those out since we won't be doing a kidney-in-a-box kind of test. Enjoy.
 
I need to look close to the surface of their body.

What do you mean by "surface"? You cannot, after all, mean you need to see bare skin. What do you mean by surface?

And presumably "close" doesn't mean you have your face pressed to the small of their back - you "saw" this missing kidney from, what, a foot or so away, at minimum? Probably as much as 2 or 3 feet? You weren't peering at him with your face inches from his skin, were you?

So, seriously - I don't understand. What do you mean by "surface" (you don't actually mean "surface"), and what do you mean by "close"?
 
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That applies to persons whom I have already seen in the past. If we have a kidney detection test and there are persons behind a screen and I have never gotten a good look of those persons I will have no perceptions. All is consistent with my claim. :cool:

Do you think you could tell two different people apart? We could still do a 1-2 test, then - you look at the subjects, A and B, in plain sight for as long as you want. Learn their bodies, inside out.

Then we put one or the other behind the screen - an ABX test. They can even lean against the screen.

How about that? That seems consistent with your claim.
 
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What do you mean by "surface"? The naked person can stand, if you wish, millimetres from the opaque screen. Objections?
Yes. I need to look at the surface of the person. No full-body screen on the test thank you.

"Thrown off", but still present? That's all we need. All you need to do is detect a body through shirt material, something you already admit you can do. That's not "remote viewing" (although, I hate to remind you, you have claimed to be able to perceive people in other rooms, which would be remote viewing).
I need to see the person.

You can see through steel though, right? I remember that from your early claims! :D
What? When?
 
You need to be much more precise. How close do you need to be to the person? When you say "surface of the body" do you mean naked or clothed? If clothed, are there restrictions on number or thickness of layers of clothing?
 
Dear GeeMack, read my reply to that post in #737 and admit that I have already answered to that post. Here, have a kidney in a box: :boxedin: We are handing those out since we won't be doing a kidney-in-a-box kind of test. Enjoy.


You won't be doing any kind of legitimate test. If you did you'd have to face the fact that there's some explanation other than magic for your compulsive lying and hallucinating. Quite likely the thought of finding out that you're mentally ill scares the crap out of you, and you don't have the courage to do it. Kidney counting test? Not if you can help it.
 
Shoes, Anita? Where the feet would be, yes, millimetres from the fabric. Where the orientation would be immediately obvious, and constant and consistent.

Can you detect feet in shoes?
I don't know. I'd have to test it. Can't I just have a kidney detection test? :(
 

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