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Verify FTL signal propagation using.....

MathewOrman

Student
Joined
Apr 23, 2003
Messages
26
MathewOrman,
I looked for a bit at the sites you linked to but I didn't quite understand what you are claiming.

Are you claiming that there is a mechanism for sending data throuh a wire at faster than the speed of light in a vacuum?

Are you disagreeing with any of the basic experiments that have indicated that the speed of light is constant to an observer regardless of the speed of the source of the light relative to the observer? I am sure there are many of these, but the Michelson Morley interference experiment and de Sitters experiments that showed the speed of light from a binary star was the same whether the light was from the star rotating towards the earth or the star rotating away from the earth are two that come to mind.

The underlying theory behind electromagnetism involves the theory of relativity. Are you in disagreement with this?

Particle accelerators do not accelerate particles beyond the speed of light, Instead, the forces acting on the particle work mostly to increase the effective mass of the particle after speeds near light speed are obtained. Do you disagree with the standard interpretation of these experiments?
 
I have looked a little bit more over the circuits and sites you linked to and I am still not sure I understand what is going on.

When the alledged faster than light pulse is detected do you feel comfortable that a sneak path around the FTL cable is not possible. Perhaps an RF connection. What happens if you just connect a short length of wire with one end disconnected to the B probe input. Do you still see a pulse? These fast pulses are generating some RF that could be triggering the scope.
 
This is the same Matthew Orman who spams his site on sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity.

You'll never get any scientific sense out of him.

He is spamming his site.
 
davefoc said:
MathewOrman,
I looked for a bit at the sites you linked to but I didn't quite understand what you are claiming.

Are you claiming that there is a mechanism for sending data throuh a wire at faster than the speed of light in a vacuum?

Are you disagreeing with any of the basic experiments that have indicated that the speed of light is constant to an observer regardless of the speed of the source of the light relative to the observer? I am sure there are many of these, but the Michelson Morley interference experiment and de Sitters experiments that showed the speed of light from a binary star was the same whether the light was from the star rotating towards the earth or the star rotating away from the earth are two that come to mind.

The underlying theory behind electromagnetism involves the theory of relativity. Are you in disagreement with this?

Particle accelerators do not accelerate particles beyond the speed of light, Instead, the forces acting on the particle work mostly to increase the effective mass of the particle after speeds near light speed are obtained. Do you disagree with the standard interpretation of these experiments?

Yes, there is a mechanism to transfer signals Faster Than The Speed of Light.
It is very simple. It is based on old fundamental postulate
that states that all known force fields are instantaneous.
My technology uses electric force field to propagate information in form of signal using ordinary conductive metal based transmission lines. Normally transmission lines are used in what engineers call
power mode that requires matching input and output impedance.
That mode propagates signals using energy transfer and that
means using motion of electrons in a conducive material.
Since electrons have mass and inertia their propagations speed is not instantaneous. Electrons move with speeds that are less
than the speed of light.
In voltage mode the short segment of transmission line has
an open end that means that there is a open circuit at far end of it.
And no load current ever flows. When electric force field or simply voltage is applied at the input it propagates instantaneously across the conductor length.
But there is also a current flow at the input.
That current is called a displacement current and it is due to
finite capacitance of transmission line. It is (the capacitance)distributed uniformly across entire length of transmission line.
Now, such current flowing through conductor generate self-inductance effect due to finite inductance property of wires used in transmission line. In turn self-inductance generate additional
voltage across the wires which adds up with the source voltage
and forms the output voltage.
In the result the output voltage is not identical with input one.
And that is one of the unwanted effects that must be compensated out in order to construct useful FTL transmission line
segment.
The strength of this unwanted effects is proportional to change of
displacement current velocity.
Which means that for given length of transmission line segment
the input current velocity change rate is dependent on input waveform frequency.
It was chosen by analogy to Maxwell's near field property to
define a rule that will allow constructing FTL transmission line segments with minimal self-inductance effects.
And the rule is that the segment length must be smaller than 1/4 of the wavelength for the highest frequency component that is
to be propagated through the FTL transmission line segment.
Using such rule one can construct FTL transmission line segment with minimal self-inductance effect.
And by adding self-inductance compensation circuit one gets a practical FTL signal transmission line segment of a finite length
for given signal with finite frequency spectrum.
Now for constructing continuous FTL transmission line the second rule was defined
which is to use active electronic components that would buffer and connect the transmission line segments
preserving voltage mode.
Electronic circuit that will function as such is a very high input impedance unity gain amplifier with very low output impedance.
Son now one can construct continuous FTL signal transmission lines.

I have started this Post to show that there is nothing Magical about my FTL data transmission lines
and that there is no new physics involved and any average skill person can build and test the FTL signal transmission phenomena
using simple of the shelf components.
Or even simulate it using one of the most popular and available free of charge electronic circuit simulator like LTpsice.

To answer you questions:
The speed of light in vacuum is constant.
Maxwell laws or his mathematical model of EM wave propagation defines the speed of light constant relative to the source.

Particle in the accelerator will not travel with speed of light because the microwave field that is used
propagates with speed of light. Standard interpretation ignores the fact that particle is traveling trough noisy force field gradients of all known kind
(electric, magnetic and gravity). The only difference between the accelerator and microwave oven is that in accelerator one can study the collision effects
and particle travel in controlled path. In microwave oven particle motion path is not controlled and collision are difficult or impossible to study.
But all the recitation types are duplicated (IR,UV, X-RAY and so on).
Which is a prove that electromagnetic field is responsible for spontaneous wide spectrum EM wave emission from particles under observation in both
accelerator and microwave oven.

Michelson Morley interference experiment simply confirms that light travels in straight lines.
One can attach a camera to it and spin it at few thousand of rpm and see the phase shift.
Or use the Sangnac interferometer to see it.



Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com
 
Sigh! Perhaps we should construct a faq.

Well, lesseee...


MathewOrman said:
Yes, there is a mechanism to transfer signals Faster Than The Speed of Light.
It is very simple. It is based on old fundamental postulate
that states that all known force fields are instantaneous.

No, there isn't. No they are not. This is a common misunderstanding: Force fields are stationary, so time is not a factor for them. But that does not mean they are instantaneous. When a force-field (electrical or magnetic) is stablished, energy is required. This energy propagates in the form of an electromagnetic (EM) wave. Once the field is established, no energy is transferred, the field is stationary. If the field is collapsed, the energy is in principle recovered (although in practice, it is normally lost to the environment), again in the form of an EM wave.

My technology uses electric force field to propagate information in form of signal using ordinary conductive metal based transmission lines. Normally transmission lines are used in what engineers call
power mode that requires matching input and output impedance.
That mode propagates signals using energy transfer and that
means using motion of electrons in a conducive material.

You cannot transfer an energy-free signal. A signal IS energy.

Since electrons have mass and inertia their propagations speed is not instantaneous. Electrons move with speeds that are less
than the speed of light.

Actually they move VERY slowly. But this is irrelevant. The electrical signal moves nearly at c.

In voltage mode the short segment of transmission line has
an open end that means that there is a open circuit at far end of it.
And no load current ever flows. When electric force field or simply voltage is applied at the input it propagates instantaneously across the conductor length.

No, it does not. Current flows as the signal energy is coupled into the transmission line. It then propagates along the cable at the speed of light (actually a bit slower, but that is another subject). When it arrives at the open end, it cannot be absorbed by a load, so it is reflected back along the transmission line to the signal source, where it is absorbed (if there is an impedance match there).

But there is also a current flow at the input.
That current is called a displacement current and it is due to
finite capacitance of transmission line. It is (the capacitance)distributed uniformly across entire length of transmission line.
Now, such current flowing through conductor generate self-inductance effect due to finite inductance property of wires used in transmission line. In turn self-inductance generate additional
voltage across the wires which adds up with the source voltage
and forms the output voltage.
In the result the output voltage is not identical with input one.
And that is one of the unwanted effects that must be compensated out in order to construct useful FTL transmission line
segment.
The strength of this unwanted effects is proportional to change of
displacement current velocity.

You are just describing the reflection mechanism I mentioned. Signal distortion will occur if the propagation time of the pulse is shorter than the pulse width.

Which means that for given length of transmission line segment
the input current velocity change rate is dependent on input waveform frequency.

*snip*

Electronic circuit that will function as such is a very high input impedance unity gain amplifier with very low output impedance.
Son now one can construct continuous FTL signal transmission lines.

Explanation of the alleged phenomenon below.

I have started this Post to show that there is nothing Magical about my FTL data transmission lines

Absolutely nothing magical. The only magic is that which keeps some people making websites about it :rolleyes:

*snip*

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com [/B]

This "FTL" transfer thingy is a college experiment. It has a nice combination of measuring techniques, math, and logic for an educational situation.

It is one of the ways to show that an event can travel faster than light. The experiment exploits the fact that on a mismatched transmission line, a signal distortion occurs, but this distortion happens in the time domain, thus is is not the same in the feeding end of the cable as in the termination end. In the termination end, the leading edge of the signal is enhanced, while a larger or smaller part of the trailing part is suppressed.

This means that the pulse at the termination end is shorter than at the feeding end. And this means that the event that is the signal is speeded up.

Lets make an analogy:

Consider a train that travels 10 miles at 100mph. If we define the event of the train arriving as the passing of the center car, obviously 10 miles will take 6 minutes. However, suppose it is a long train of 100 carriages, but en route all except two carriages are coupled off and left on the track. Now, the train still moves at 100 mph, but when it started, the center carriage was 50 carriages down the train. When it arrives at the other end, however, the centre has "moved" 48 carriages forward, so the event of the passing train has been speeded up.

This is essentially what is done by those pulses, and while being an interesting experiment, it has nothing to do with FTL signalling because the information content of the signal cannot be speeded up.

Electromagnetics is not a gratifiying realm for kooks, because it is VERY well explored, thus debunking is easy.

As an aside, I find it puzzling that anybody would take interest in FTL cables, as they seem completely useless (apart from being impossible). :rolleyes:

Hans
 
MRC_Hans said:
Sigh! Perhaps we should construct a faq.

Electromagnetics is not a gratifiying realm for kooks, because it is VERY well explored, thus debunking is easy.

As an aside, I find it puzzling that anybody would take interest in FTL cables, as they seem completely useless (apart from being impossible). :rolleyes:

Hans

Alas, this will just encourage them. I'm tempted to report this thread as spam....but who cares anyway?:rolleyes:
 
MRC_Hans said:
Sigh! Perhaps we should construct a faq.

Well, lesseee...




This "FTL" transfer thingy is a college experiment. It has a nice combination of measuring techniques, math, and logic for an educational situation.

It is one of the ways to show that an event can travel faster than light. The experiment exploits the fact that on a mismatched transmission line, a signal distortion occurs, but this distortion happens in the time domain, thus is is not the same in the feeding end of the cable as in the termination end. In the termination end, the leading edge of the signal is enhanced, while a larger or smaller part of the trailing part is suppressed.

This means that the pulse at the termination end is shorter than at the feeding end. And this means that the event that is the signal is speeded up.

Lets make an analogy:

Consider a train that travels 10 miles at 100mph. If we define the event of the train arriving as the passing of the center car, obviously 10 miles will take 6 minutes. However, suppose it is a long train of 100 carriages, but en route all except two carriages are coupled off and left on the track. Now, the train still moves at 100 mph, but when it started, the center carriage was 50 carriages down the train. When it arrives at the other end, however, the centre has "moved" 48 carriages forward, so the event of the passing train has been speeded up.

This is essentially what is done by those pulses, and while being an interesting experiment, it has nothing to do with FTL signalling because the information content of the signal cannot be speeded up.

Electromagnetics is not a gratifiying realm for kooks, because it is VERY well explored, thus debunking is easy.

As an aside, I find it puzzling that anybody would take interest in FTL cables, as they seem completely useless (apart from being impossible). :rolleyes:

Hans

You have applied the transmission line theory that assumes
infinite length of transmission line.

That shows that you cannot comprehend the idea!

Try to learn what transmission line theory calls "Electrically short open ended transmission lines".
Or finite length distributed RLC circuits.


Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com
 
MathewOrman said:
You have applied the transmission line theory that assumes
infinite length of transmission line.

I certainly have not. Whatever gives you that idea?

That shows that you cannot comprehend the idea!

More likely, it shows that you do not comprehend transmisison line theory.

Try to learn what transmission line theory calls "Electrically short open ended transmission lines".
Or finite length distributed RLC circuits.

Son, I have worked with transmission lines for over thirty years. I have even teached on the subject.

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com [/B]

Hans
 
Its like a title fight between the champ and a complete no-hoper....you try not to watch...
 
MathewOrman said:


An I have invented the World's most advanced 6D Laser Tracking System US Patent No. 5,767,960.
and NASA is using it
Press released at: http://www.ascension-tech.com/news/press_032503.php

But that has nothing to do with the subject
and the unanswered questions is:
Do you know the theory behind what is called "Electrically short open ended transmission lines"?

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com

So what? I have a patent registered as well, but it doesn't mean that I can produce a crackpot idea and expect people to believe it.
 
So the claim here is that a spice simulation of a circuit shows FTL propagation? You're not even using sleight of hand to show pulses on a scope, but simply using a spice simulation?
 
CurtC said:
So the claim here is that a spice simulation of a circuit shows FTL propagation? You're not even using sleight of hand to show pulses on a scope, but simply using a spice simulation?

Well, it is all about LTspice and not about my commercial hardware.
LTspice is free my test equipment on the other hand cost a fortune.

Also LTspice has femto accuracy and one can zoom the waveform to that level.

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com
 
MathewOrman said:
........most popular electronic circuit simulator: LTspice

The details, example files and schematics are at:
http://www.ultra-faster-than-light.com/ftlspeed.htm
You can download free version of LTspice and find out what is been the most overlooked
example of Faster Than Light signal propagation
in ordinary copper based transmission cables.
Example that completely falsifies SR, GR, QM
and QED.

Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com

Good for you! If you are right, then you would have introduced the world to a whole new science.

Publish your work in a peer reviewed journal and then proceed to make some serious money.
 
OK, I just looked at your site and I have a few questions. It looks like you're measuring that your four-meter-long line has a propagation time that's 4.4 ns faster than a four-meter-long piece of RG-58. Is this right?

I have a few problems with this scenario. First, a four-meter-long piece of RG-58 should propagate a signal in 18.5 ns. If your cable did 4.4 ns less (14.1 ns), this is still slower than the speed of light, which can cover four meters in 13.2 ns. Am I understanding this right?

The other major problem with the setup is why you use a 28 ms rise time signal to show this effect. I didn't study it long enough to see exactly what's going on, but that fact sure sets off my BS Detector. The e-mail message at the top of the page you linked to says something about a 200 ps rise pulse, which would be adequate to show the effect. What happened to that idea? Putting that message as the first thing on your page would give the impression that this is what you're doing, but I had to dig a little harder to see that you're actually using a pulse that's more than 100 times slower. What's up with that?
 
CurtC said:
OK, I just looked at your site and I have a few questions. It looks like you're measuring that your four-meter-long line has a propagation time that's 4.4 ns faster than a four-meter-long piece of RG-58. Is this right?

I have a few problems with this scenario. First, a four-meter-long piece of RG-58 should propagate a signal in 18.5 ns. If your cable did 4.4 ns less (14.1 ns), this is still slower than the speed of light, which can cover four meters in 13.2 ns. Am I understanding this right?

The other major problem with the setup is why you use a 28 ms rise time signal to show this effect. I didn't study it long enough to see exactly what's going on, but that fact sure sets off my BS Detector. The e-mail message at the top of the page you linked to says something about a 200 ps rise pulse, which would be adequate to show the effect. What happened to that idea? Putting that message as the first thing on your page would give the impression that this is what you're doing, but I had to dig a little harder to see that you're actually using a pulse that's more than 100 times slower. What's up with that?

Please read more carefully.
The Multisim examples are for 1m coax length.

Look at LTspice examples.

Also look at previous posts at this thread to find out why
frequency components of signals must be limited according to the coax segment length.


Sincerely,

Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-faster-than-light.com
 
OK, I read more carefully. Let me summarize what I think you're doing, and please check that this understanding is right. You're taking the output of a function generator, then passing it through a large network of Rs, Ls, and Cs, in order to reduce its rise time (limit its bandwidth). Then you pass that into a lumped-element model of a 1-m long RG-58. You have a switch that terminates that with a 50-ohm resistor.

You then look at the end of the transmission line, and compare the output when the resistor is there vs. when it's not there. Is this right?

May I suggest an enhancement to improve your simulation's accuracy? Instead of modeling the line as a single L of 205 nH and a single C of 42 pF, could you model it as ten Ls and Cs, each with values of 20.5 nH and 4.2 pF? A lumped-element model is just an approximation of a transmission line, and the more elements you break it into, the more accurate it will be. Instead of using single big lumps, model the cable in 0.1 m segments.
 

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