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Vatican Warns Against Fundamentalism

Notrump

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Notrump
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A Vatican cardinal said Thursday that the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into “fundamentalism” if it ignores scientific reason.

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9913712/

An interesting call for reason from a ranking official of a church that at one time favored the burning of those who did not accept orthodoxy. I'd be interested in comments from others, especially current or former Catholics. ;)
 
The next thing you'll know, groups will start branching away from the Catholic Church to form their own version of Christianity.
 
Notrump said:
An interesting call for reason from a ranking official of a church that at one time favored the burning of those who did not accept orthodoxy.
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Yet the Church has expressed basically the same sentiment, more or less consistently, at least since the time of Augustine (whereas Christian fundamentalism is a very recent phenomenon). Sounds like old news to me.

As far as anyone can tell, the Church never burned anyone for any reason having to do with science. Why bring up burnings in this context?
 
Am I correct when I read that the RC Church said that there is proof for evolution and that its not just a theory? :confused:
 
ruach1 said:
Am I correct when I read that the RC Church said that there is proof for evolution and that its not just a theory? :confused:
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Proof is too strong a word, but you're not far off. Pope John Paul II put it in these terms:

...[N]ew knowledge has led to the recognition of the theory of evolution as more than a hypothesis. It is indeed remarkable that this theory has been progressively accepted by researchers, following a series of discoveries in various fields of knowledge. The convergence, neither sought nor fabricated, of the results of work that was conducted independently is in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.
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Says the Pope:

"Look out for Fundamentalism, it just might lead you on a Crusade. And that's bad. In other news, ich bin der Papst! Ich zerstöre die Juden! Sieg heil! Sieg heil!"
 
Notrump said:
A Vatican cardinal said Thursday that the faithful should listen to what secular modern science has to offer, warning that religion risks turning into “fundamentalism” if it ignores scientific reason.

Here's the link: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9913712/

An interesting call for reason from a ranking official of a church that at one time favored the burning of those who did not accept orthodoxy. I'd be interested in comments from others, especially current or former Catholics. ;)
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You would think that the Vatican telling people to reject fundamentalism and listen to scientific reason might be considered a good thing. But somehow it gets turned into a criticism. When the Pope accepts the theory of evolution Dawkins calls it "obscurantist disingenuous doublethink" and calls SJ Gould a flabby coward for welcoming the message.

When the Pope apologises for the persecution of Galileo some idiot like Massimo Pigliucci says "they've finally admitted the world is round".

Short of "there is no God", is there anything the Vatican could say that would be welcomed in the skeptical community?
 
Former Catholic here.

I see nothing remarkable here. The church has always been open to science.

Even that famous victim, Galileo, wasn't really a victim of some sort of crusade against science. Contrary to popular belief, Galileo was not imprisoned for publishing his data about the moons of Jupiter. He was imprisoned for publishing discussions about the theological implications of the discovery.

Also, the Catholic church has never been a staunch advocate of biblical literalism. They always said that the truth in scripture was very difficult to discern, and that the interpretation thereof should be left to the professionals. It was the Protestants who started encouraging people to actually read the Bible for themselves.
 
Meadmaker said:
Even that famous victim, Galileo, wasn't really a victim of some sort of crusade against science. Contrary to popular belief, Galileo was not imprisoned for publishing his data about the moons of Jupiter. He was imprisoned for publishing discussions about the theological implications of the discovery.
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Well let's not go to far, Galileo was imprisoned for defending a banned cosmological theory - so in this case it really was a crusade against science.

However as I have pointed out elsewhere it was an isolated event and very out of character for the Catholic Church to persecute people for science.

Persecuting people for non-standard religious beliefs - well that was another case entirely.
 
And yet at the same time they hold training seminars on exorcisms. What does religion or faith have to do with ethics?
Considering the role the Vatican played in WW2...

But he said science, too, should listen to religion.

“We know where scientific reason can end up by itself: The atomic bomb and the possibility of cloning human beings are fruit of a reason that wants to free itself from every ethical or religious link,” he said.

“But we also know the dangers of a religion that severs its links with reason and becomes prey to fundamentalism,” he said. “The faithful have the obligation to listen to that which secular modern science has to offer, just as we ask that knowledge of the faith be taken in consideration as an expert voice in humanity.”
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Science has something they want.
 
ruach1 said:
Am I correct when I read that the RC Church said that there is proof for evolution and that its not just a theory? :confused:
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There is proof for evolution, and yet it is just a theory.

Actually not just a theory, it's a THEORY!

If this doesn't make sense to you, it's because you're one of the many who have been misled regarding the meaning of the word theory in science.

Theory basically means "the best explanation we have for stuff we know about." It doesn't mean "wild unsubstantiated guess based on one dead guy's fancy."

Evolution (the process) is a fact, and evolution (the theory) is our best explanation of it.

Same applies to gravity, btw.
 
Scientific theory tends to be supported by fact, and lots of it.
 
logical muse said:
There is proof for evolution, and yet it is just a theory.

Actually not just a theory, it's a THEORY!

If this doesn't make sense to you, it's because you're one of the many who have been misled regarding the meaning of the word theory in science.

Theory basically means "the best explanation we have for stuff we know about." It doesn't mean "wild unsubstantiated guess based on one dead guy's fancy."

Evolution (the process) is a fact, and evolution (the theory) is our best explanation of it.
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Here, here!

Same applies to gravity, btw.
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I'm still tending toward Intelligent Falling.
 
HeyLeroy said:
Here, here!

I'm still tending toward Intelligent Falling.
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Ha! Yeah I'm all for intelligent falling too. Can't wait till they try and introduce that as an alternative to teach both sides of the debate to let the students make up their own minds.
 
logical muse said:
Ha! Yeah I'm all for intelligent falling too. Can't wait till they try and introduce that as an alternative to teach both sides of the debate to let the students make up their own minds.
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I'd bet a dollar (Canadian) that they'd get all indignant and accuse us of trying to sidetrack the debate!
 
Robin said:
Short of "there is no God", is there anything the Vatican could say that would be welcomed in the skeptical community?
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Sure. I'm not nuts about them keeping the exorcism ritual, but kudos to them for insisting on its being the last explanation for odd behavior. They encourage MDs and psychologists to exhaust every other possibility first. Likewise, when they encounter a miracle, they have very stingent quidelines for testing the phenomenon before accepting it as such. While tons of nutters might say an underwear stain is actually th Virgin Mary, the Vatican is quick to point out that it is more likely an underwear stain.
 
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