Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Clayton Moore]

CM I know for a fact that diagnosis has expanded. My own eldest daughter is diagnosed as asthmatic.

She has never had an attack, nor any symptoms at all. In former times, she would have been told to go about her business like anyone else.

Why do you think that is?

ETA: and why do you think this adds to the statistics?

Asthma without symptoms? The definition of asthma is its symptoms.

 

[Clayton Moore]

I have thought about it.....you are wrong. Asthma is not "the immune system breaking down". It's much more complex than that. There is a well shown genetic component to this disease, on top of clearly delineated environmental factors. There are forms of asthma that affect those who are not typical asthmatics, such as "exercise asthma". And then there are some, like myself, who seem to have grown out of their asthma attacks.

What we do know is that there is NO single shred of any evidence for a correlation between immunization and asthma. Kind of like the situation with immunization and autism, Clayton.



I have no financial interest in this topic, and I am intelligent enough to know that there was no magical time when everyone had a perfectly working "tried and true immune system". I don't even think you know what you are talking about here.

I do know asthma was described by the ancient Egyptians. It was also described by the ancient Greeks. In fact, "asthma" is derived from the ancient Greek word for "panting".

An intelligent person should wonder how immunization would apply to those historical facts.

And while you are pondering that, how is the proof that the MMR vaccine causes autism coming along? Remember, you promised to produce this?

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

 

[Clayton Moore]

What we do know is that there is NO single shred of any evidence for a correlation between immunization and asthma. Kind of like the situation with immunization and autism, Clayton.

If a child/you have a fever you shouldn't get a vaccine injection. Correct?

Why? Does the vaccine become dangerous because of the fever?
No.

If you give your child/yourself something(such as ibuprofen) to lower/eliminate the fever will the vaccine still be dangerous?
Yes.
Why wouldn't it since the fever is merely a warning/symptom that the immune system has encountered an invasive problem.

Which means there can be asymptomatic events progressing in a person that can be exacerbated by the vaccine.

 

[Clayton Moore]

YOU would come to that conclusion because you have an agenda. No-one knows what CAUSES asthma. There is a strong genetic correlation but the genetic carrier, if it exists, is as yet undiscovered. However, most people have an idea what exacerbates the symptoms. You wouldn't puff your Cuban cigar smoke into an asthma sufferer's face, nor would you expect them to thrive in a coal mine.

So you can't figure out what causes illnesses/syndromes/etc but you're comfortable injecting foreign substances, vaccines, into the human body.

It is really bizarre that an infant can from SIDS after getting multiple vaccines and the is unknown. Or the cause of GWS is unknown.

Here is an example of the government just flat out lying and destroying lives by vaccine.

http://lewisunderground.com/topic.jsp?topicId=11532224

... --- 3 years ago - quote

Some questions and comments from military personnel are posted below.

Q. I am a veteran who just got out of the U.S. Navy. I was forced against my will to receive the anthrax and smallpox vaccines. My only other option was DISHONORABLE discharge which would take away every benefit of being a veteran, making my service pointless. When I was vaccinated with anthrax I started going bald, my eyesight went from 20/30 to 20/80 (in two months) and I started getting severe stomache cramps and migraine headaches. A few weeks after my third anthrax shot I recieved my smallpox vaccine. Again, migraine headaches and stomache aches. I have always been in great health and standing until then. I went to medical to submit an adverse event form and I was told I cannot. I was told my hair fell out because it was genetic (note this occurred when I was 22 and nobody on either side of my family is bald), I was told my eyesight changed because I work with computers, and I was told that my headaches were from stress and my stomach aches were from the change to Navy food on a daily basis (all this occurred in a few months' timespan). They said I could NOT submit an adverse reaction form. The only place I could notate this was when I separated from the military, and I put all this information in my medical separation page. This comes as little consolation to me as my hair has continued to thin, my eyes have worsened, I still have migraine headaches, and my stomache still hurts constantly. I did some reasearch and you cannot vaccinate against airborne anthrax. Nobody has or can create a vaccine for the lungs, and inhalation anthrax is why we recieved the vaccine. I am only protected from ingestion (which would imply food poisoning), or cutaneous, which if I stay within the ship, a missile with anthrax couldn't infect me there. So using common sense, they weren't worried about Saddam launching a missile, they were worried about food poisoning or on-board terrorism. Also, I learned that many people on the ship that were "buddy-buddy" with the doc onboard didn't have to get anthrax or smallpox vaccines. Surely the doc with an MD would not put his friends at risk like this unless he knew it wasn't necessary! I smell the stink of government conspiracy all over these vaccinations. To sum it up, I would rather have received a DISHONORABLE discharge than poison, I would have outlet to the media in my homestate (MN) and made a spectacle, then got my benefits reinstated.

 

[swright777]

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

And here is the evidence that CM uses for proof:

 

[Clayton Moore]

And here is the evidence that CM uses for proof:

Can someone tell me if that is considered thread disruption?

 

[abaddon]

Asthma without symptoms? The definition of asthma is its symptoms.

You really have no idea what you are talking about, do you.

Asthma is characterized by recurrent episodes of wheezing, shortness of breath, chest tightness, and coughing.[16] Sputum may be produced from the lung by coughing but is often hard to bring up.[17] During recovery from an attack it may appear pus like due to high levels of white blood cells called eosinophils.[18] Symptoms are usually worse at night and in the early morning or in response to exercise or cold air.[19] Some people with asthma rarely experience symptoms, usually in response to triggers, whereas others may have marked and persistent symptoms.[20]

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asthma

Common signs and symptoms of asthma include:

Coughing. Coughing from asthma often is worse at night or early in the morning, making it hard to sleep.
Wheezing. Wheezing is a whistling or squeaky sound that occurs when you breathe.
Chest tightness. This may feel like something is squeezing or sitting on your chest.
Shortness of breath. Some people who have asthma say they can't catch their breath or they feel out of breath. You may feel like you can't get air out of your lungs.
Not all people who have asthma have these symptoms.

from http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/asthma/signs.html

I could go on, but it is obvious you don't even know the particulars of the disease you are putting forward as a result of vaccines.

 

[dafydd]

Asthma without symptoms? The definition of asthma is its symptoms.

It can be treated nowadays. We are not in your favoured era of medicine, the leech era.

 

[dafydd]

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

No.

 

[dafydd]

Can someone tell me if that is considered thread disruption?

Your crackpot YooToob vids and links to loony sites could be considered as thread disruption. Refusing to address the following points is just plain rudeness.

Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.

First asked 4 March 2013 - 222 days and counting!
Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
First asked 8 April 2013 - 190 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
First asked 8 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
First asked 18 April 2013 - 180 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
First asked 26th April 2013 - 173 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
First asked 30th April 2013 - 165 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
First asked 14 May 2013 - 154 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
First asked 15 May 2013 - 153 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
First asked 24 May 2013 - 144 days and counting
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
First asked 10 June 2013 - 126 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
First asked 13 June 2013 - 125 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
First asked 14 June 2013 - 123 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
First asked 17 June 2013 - 119 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
First asked 24 June 2013 - 112 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"
First asked 25 June 2013 - 111 days and counting
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
First asked 25 June 2013 - 111 days and counting
The delusion of citing an upcoming film from an ignorant, paranoid anit-vaxer (Jeff Hays interviews the quack Andrew Wakefield!)
The delusion that there are mysterious "additives" in vaccines that harm children.
Clayton Moore, Please supply a list of the current additives to vaccines that have been shown to harm children.
Or is this just another of the paranoid, ignorant delusions that you have been infected by () from the crazy web sites that you get your information from?
First asked 2 July 2013 - 104 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Does ASD have the same symptoms as mercury or lead poisoning?
(they do not as anyone who can read cane find out)
First asked 18 July 2013 - 90 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: do you have the fantasy that vaccines contain lead?
First asked 18 July 2013 - 90 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Do you think that autism is an autoimmune disease?
First asked 19 July 2013 - 89 days and counting.
Clayton Moore,
What is your evidence that the CDC is in "minionship to drug and vaccine companies"?
First asked 26 July 2013 - 86 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Do you not know that vaccines have side-effects?
First asked 16 September 2013 - 28 days and counting.
That is the only reason that I can see why you are rather insanely trying to list every person in the world that has ever had a vaccine side-effect !
Clayton Moore
What is your evidence that only vaccines "are destabilizing millions of years of human evolution"?
First asked 17 September 2013. 27 days and counting.
It is almost as you are unaware that modern agriculture, civil works (sewers, etc.), medicine, etc. exist!
Clayton Moore: For that matter what does "destabilizing" mean in evolutionary terms? Evolution almost by definition is not stable!
Clayton Moore: What is your evidence that this paper is "fabricated propaganda"?
First asked 17 September 2013. 27 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death?
First asked 23 September 2013 - 21 days and counting.
So far you are just parroting a web site where the parents mourning the tragedy of an undetermined cause of death are desperately fantasizing a cause for that death.
Clayton Moore, can you recognize your citation of an ignorant and paranoiac person?
First asked 1 October 2013: 13 days and counting.

The latest insanity is:

Thinking that vaccines can "destabilize" evolution.
Insulting the father of a child and the judge in a trial about vaccination: The father and judge are idiots according to Clayton Moore.
This is doubly insane since Clayton Moore has stated before that he is not against vaccination.

 

[Dcdrac]

Clayton so far you have proved no link whatsoever with autism, asthma and MMR or any other vaccine.

All you have proved is you know how to use Youtbue to find crank videos which you think support your case, they do not they show how flawed it is in sharp relief.

All you have proved is you do not read the majaority of articles you link to, if you did you would have noticed the vast bulk that are not sourced from quack websites like Natureal News do not support your case at all.

Now where is the hard evidence that MMR causes autism and vaccines cause asthma?

 

[Alareth]

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

Basic math that we all learned in elementary school shows us that many times zero is still zero.

 

[swright777]

Can someone tell me if that is considered thread disruption?

I would say that it is not. My link contained exactly as much evidence for your claims as anything that you have linked/posted. Probably more, since the video that I linked is 10 hours long.

 

[pakeha]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12182372

Thanks for the link.

...Genetic mutation (the probable causes of asthma and autism) does not "destabilize" evolution. They are a fundamental part of evolution.

One of the clearest and most concise explanations I've seen for those two conditions.

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

I beg to differ, Clayton.
Just from my own Google searches plus the information other posters have contributed in this thread I've seen enough to decide there's no link between vaxx and autism.

 

[Mudcat]

Asthma without symptoms? The definition of asthma is its symptoms.

No, the definition of asthma is not it's symptoms (which are treatable).

I've already proven many times that vaccines cause most instances of autism.

No, you have not. In point of fact you have proven that you don't have the first clue of what you're talking about and that the exact opposite is true.

If a child/you have a fever you shouldn't get a vaccine injection. Correct?

Why? Does the vaccine become dangerous because of the fever?
No.

How many times must this be spelled out for you? Vaccines are preventative medicines, in other words you take it before you get sick. Not after.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Thanks for the link.



One of the clearest and most concise explanations I've seen for those two conditions.



I beg to differ, Clayton.
Just from my own Google searches plus the information other posters have contributed in this thread I've seen enough to decide there's no link between vaxx and autism.

Last time I looked evolution is forward not reverse, stronger not weaker.

 

[Clayton Moore]

No, the definition of asthma is not it's symptoms (which are treatable).



No, you have not. In point of fact you have proven that you don't have the first clue of what you're talking about and that the exact opposite is true.



How many times must this be spelled out for you? Vaccines are preventative medicines, in other words you take it before you get sick. Not after.

What does any of that, whatever it is, have to do with

If a child/you have a fever you shouldn't get a vaccine injection. Correct?

Why? Does the vaccine become dangerous because of the fever?
No.

If you give your child/yourself something(such as ibuprofen) to lower/eliminate the fever will the vaccine still be dangerous?
Yes.
Why wouldn't it since the fever is merely a warning/symptom that the immune system has encountered an invasive problem.

Which means there can be asymptomatic events progressing in a person that can be exacerbated by the vaccine.

 

[dafydd]

What does any of that, whatever it is, have to do with

Everything but as it does not fit into your vaccine delusion you ignore it. When are you going to answer these? I'm starting to think that you have no evidence or answers. By the way, evolution does not have a plan or a goal. Didn't you learn about evolution in school?


Clayton Moore: Cite the studies showing the links between the MMR jab and autism.

First asked 4 March 2013 - 222 days and counting!
Clayton Moore, Do you really think that autism is a form of cancer?
First asked 8 April 2013 - 190 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite the scientific evidence for levels of carcinogens in vaccines enough to affect the vaccinated.
First asked 8 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause allergies.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause cancer.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite your evidence that vaccines cause MS.
First asked 10 April 2013 - 188 days and counting
Clayton Moore: are you rational enough to understand that 2002 is not 2013, etc.
First asked 18 April 2013 - 180 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please cite your evidence for the rise of autism between 1978 and 1988
First asked 26th April 2013 - 173 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Are you intelligent enough to cite the science that vaccines can cause asthma?
First asked 30th April 2013 - 165 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Sources for 60 years ago there was little fear of the measles, mumps, or chicken pox
First asked 14 May 2013 - 154 days and counting
Clayton Moore: Evidence for the increase in chronically sick people in the USA
First asked 15 May 2013 - 153 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Exactly how is the Danish study "bogus"?
First asked 24 May 2013 - 144 days and counting
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that any immune system can be "over simulated"?
First asked 10 June 2013 - 126 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Have you any idea what a citation to the scientific literature is?
Your continued citations of crank web sites says no!
First asked 13 June 2013 - 125 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Cite the evidence that Al in vaccines increases Alzheimer’s Disease
First asked 14 June 2013 - 123 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Please give the source for the cause of death of this "little girl"
This will actually take a while because you made up a fantasy about the cause while the ME's verdict is outstanding.
First asked 17 June 2013 - 119 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Can you cite the evidence that support your statement that vaccines are a "debacle"?
First asked 24 June 2013 - 112 days and counting
Clayton Moore, Show that drug companies have a "poor drug testing track record"
First asked 25 June 2013 - 111 days and counting
Clayton Moore, What is your evidence that the medical community is "basically" never taken to task on the safety of vaccines?
First asked 25 June 2013 - 111 days and counting
The delusion of citing an upcoming film from an ignorant, paranoid anit-vaxer (Jeff Hays interviews the quack Andrew Wakefield!)
The delusion that there are mysterious "additives" in vaccines that harm children.
Clayton Moore, Please supply a list of the current additives to vaccines that have been shown to harm children.
Or is this just another of the paranoid, ignorant delusions that you have been infected by () from the crazy web sites that you get your information from?
First asked 2 July 2013 - 104 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Does ASD have the same symptoms as mercury or lead poisoning?
(they do not as anyone who can read cane find out)
First asked 18 July 2013 - 90 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: do you have the fantasy that vaccines contain lead?
First asked 18 July 2013 - 90 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Do you think that autism is an autoimmune disease?
First asked 19 July 2013 - 89 days and counting.
Clayton Moore,
What is your evidence that the CDC is in "minionship to drug and vaccine companies"?
First asked 26 July 2013 - 86 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: Do you not know that vaccines have side-effects?
First asked 16 September 2013 - 28 days and counting.
That is the only reason that I can see why you are rather insanely trying to list every person in the world that has ever had a vaccine side-effect !
Clayton Moore
What is your evidence that only vaccines "are destabilizing millions of years of human evolution"?
First asked 17 September 2013. 27 days and counting.
It is almost as you are unaware that modern agriculture, civil works (sewers, etc.), medicine, etc. exist!
Clayton Moore: For that matter what does "destabilizing" mean in evolutionary terms? Evolution almost by definition is not stable!
Clayton Moore: What is your evidence that this paper is "fabricated propaganda"?
First asked 17 September 2013. 27 days and counting.
Clayton Moore: What was the actual medical cause of Christina Richelle Tarsell's death?
First asked 23 September 2013 - 21 days and counting.
So far you are just parroting a web site where the parents mourning the tragedy of an undetermined cause of death are desperately fantasizing a cause for that death.
Clayton Moore, can you recognize your citation of an ignorant and paranoiac person?
First asked 1 October 2013: 13 days and counting.

The latest insanity is:

Thinking that vaccines can "destabilize" evolution.
Insulting the father of a child and the judge in a trial about vaccination: The father and judge are idiots according to Clayton Moore.
This is doubly insane since Clayton Moore has stated before that he is not against vaccination.

 

[Dcdrac]

clayton you have shown conclusively you do not understand how evolution works, it is not a linear progression for one thing, if it was just a matter of strength why has the Sabre tooth Tiger disappeared......

 

[dafydd]

clayton you have shown conclusively you do not understand how evolution works, it is not a linear progression for one thing, if it was just a matter of strength why has the Sabre tooth Tiger disappeared......

The awful effects of vaccination?