Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[jdc324]

Rubella is a type of measles hence the name German Measles.
All my friends named Bill have signed a waiver that allows me to not call them by their full proper name.

A few of my friends insisted I sign a contract mandating that I don't call them by their full proper name.

BTW FYI
http://kidshealth.org/parent/infections/skin/german_measles.html

Since the danger is to unborn babies what's the rush with the vaccine? Why not just require it for every 10 year old girl?

No it isn't. Did you not read my earlier post?

It's looking more and more likely that you are actually pro-vaccine and trying to discredit the anti-vaccination position with your posts here. Surely you know that measles and rubella are two different diseases?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measles "Measles (also known as Rubeola, morbilli, or English measles), is an infection of the respiratory system caused by a virus, specifically a paramyxovirus of the genus Morbillivirus."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubella "The name rubella is sometimes confused with rubeola, an alternative name for measles in English-speaking countries; the diseases are unrelated." "The disease is caused by Rubella virus, a togavirus that is enveloped and has a single-stranded RNA genome."

 

[abaddon]

A sea horse is a type of horse, hence the name "sea horse".

Yup. Making the bridles is very intricate work, and I haven't figured out where the horseshoes go but sea horses are obviously a sub-type of horse.

 

[Estellea]

Clay, what does #3875 have to do with any evidence of MMR causing autism? What does GWS have to do with autism? Why are you avoiding answering to your charge that rubella is a type of measles?

Este

 

[abaddon]

I've repeatedly pointed out that tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of parents have noticed and reported to their physicians that their child regressed to autistic behavior after the child's MMR shot.

And your notions have been repeatedly shot down in flames. No fringe reset for you.

That seems to not count like some sort of legal technicality.

Of course it does not count, not out of legality, but out of science. But we know you don't like science.

Somehow parents who recognize the meaning of hundreds of squeaks, squeals and cries of their baby are not capable of figuring out what event caused their child to regress to autistic behavior?

You still persist in not understanding that correlation does not equal causation. Why is that?

Read up on Agent Orange. The authorities,US government and Monsanto, fought tooth and nail nay saying the dangerous aftereffects to US Servicemen. US Servicemen were accused lying and accused of being malingerers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange#Effects_on_U.S._veterans

And this relates to childhood diseases how exactly?

Read up on the Gulf War syndrome.

Anthrax vaccine



Again vets were at first accused of being lying malingerers. Plus many of the GWS victims were vets who weren't even deployed to the GWZ.

What would deployed and non deployed GW vets have in common? Vaccines.

Yup, anthrax is a childhood disease. Right.

 

[abaddon]

Clay, what does #3875 have to do with any evidence of MMR causing autism? What does GWS have to do with autism? Why are you avoiding answering to your charge that rubella is a type of measles?

Este

Because he knows he has goofed on that, but is incapable of admitting error.

 

[Clayton Moore]

And this relates to childhood diseases how exactly?

Yup, anthrax is a childhood disease. Right.

The point was that the powers to be lie all the time.

 

[Supermac]

Anyone over 50 who can be depended upon to tell the truth will tell you that the term CHILDHOOD DISEASES refers to Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox.

...... And diphtheria, scarlet fever, whooping cough .....

 

[abaddon]

The point was that the powers to be lie all the time.

Well, since I am not in the US, what is the relevance?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Well, since I am not in the US, what is the relevance?

Damage control 101 is denial or saying everything is safe and on and on and on.

As in deny everything until your back is against the wall. Individuals who lie or stretch the truth to protect themselves are likely to go to jail for committing perjury.

 

[Estellea]

The point was that the powers to be lie all the time.

Well, since I am not in the US, what is the relevance?

And it's the future powers, not even the ones we have now so an amazing prediction on Clay's part. Your country matters not; the global pharma cabal and reptillian overlords reach everywhere.

Este

 

[Giordano]

Anyone over 50 who can be depended upon to tell the truth will tell you that the term CHILDHOOD DISEASES refers to Measles, Mumps, and Chicken Pox.

I assure you that childhood diseases referred (and still refers) to Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Rubella (not to be confused with true Measles), Polio, Pertussis (Whooping Cough), and Scarlet Fever. There are more. These are the childhood diseases my parents knew and taught me about when I was a child. They were also the principal childhood diseases I was warned about when I myself became a parent some years ago, and remain under this definition today. Interestingly enough, vaccination has eliminated almost all of these as threats in developed countries, unlike the situation my parents faced many years ago. So if vaccination programs are comprehensive enough and the boosters are up to date, one can call them former childhood diseases.

I am over 50. So, can I assume you will accuse me of lying?

 

[Giordano]

Rubella is a type of measles hence the name German Measles.

Oh come on! We were clearly discussing MEASLES, (the paramyxovirus) based on the description of the virus, its symptoms, and its dangers when you got it confused with Rubella. I have never heard of Rubella ever being referred to simply as "Measles" even by the people who once called it "German Measles." My parents never did, nor, I bet, have you ever heard of Rubella referred to only as "Measles."

You made a joke about your friends not being required to use your full name. Using the term "Measles" when you mean "Rubella" is more like repeatedly talking about "Washington" during a President's Day speech in front of your state capital building, but never disclosing that you are referring to your neighbor Herbert Washington. In fact, it is like calling someone a fish when you mean a human.

I previously chose not to continue to tease you about this mistake because other posters had already corrected you, and because it was too tempting, given your "much more intelligent than others" comments. But you appear unable to admit to this error, and continue to try to pretend it is our error, rather than yours.

 

[Giordano]

I've repeatedly pointed out that tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of parents have noticed and reported to their physicians that their child regressed to autistic behavior after the child's MMR shot.

That seems to not count like some sort of legal technicality.

Somehow parents who recognize the meaning of hundreds of squeaks, squeals and cries of their baby are not capable of figuring out what event caused their child to regress to autistic behavior?

Read up on Agent Orange. The authorities,US government and Monsanto, fought tooth and nail nay saying the dangerous aftereffects to US Servicemen. US Servicemen were accused lying and accused of being malingerers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Orange#Effects_on_U.S._veterans

Read up on the Gulf War syndrome.

Anthrax vaccine



Again vets were at first accused of being lying malingerers. Plus many of the GWS victims were vets who weren't even deployed to the GWZ.

What would deployed and non deployed GW vets have in common? Vaccines.

Oh, I also see that you took my advice about changing the subject to your old, recycled, discredited arguments...

 

[Bram Kaandorp]

Damage control 101 is denial or saying everything is safe and on and on and on.

As in deny everything until your back is against the wall. Individuals who lie or stretch the truth to protect themselves are likely to go to jail for committing perjury.

So either you'd be going to jail if you were to be asked about this topic in a court case, or you are genuinely ignorant of the subject.

Right?

 

[Giordano]

Damage control 101 is denial or saying everything is safe and on and on and on.

As in deny everything until your back is against the wall. Individuals who lie or stretch the truth to protect themselves are likely to go to jail for committing perjury.

Are you being ironic?

 

[Clayton Moore]

I assure you that childhood diseases referred (and still refers) to Measles, Mumps, Chicken Pox, Rubella (not to be confused with true Measles), Polio, Pertussis (Whooping Cough), and Scarlet Fever. There are more. These are the childhood diseases my parents knew and taught me about when I was a child. They were also the principal childhood diseases I was warned about when I myself became a parent some years ago, and remain under this definition today. Interestingly enough, vaccination has eliminated almost all of these as threats in developed countries, unlike the situation my parents faced many years ago. So if vaccination programs are comprehensive enough and the boosters are up to date, one can call them former childhood diseases.

I am over 50. So, can I assume you will accuse me of lying?

The diseases of CHILDHOOD DISEASES in 1920 would be the same as the CHILDHOOD DISEASES of 1930, 1940, 1950, and 1960. A parent or an adult of those years would say mumps, measles, and chicken pox were the childhood diseases.
That's the truth. Period.

 

[Dcdrac]

Update Clayton we are now in the 21st Century its 2013.

So how does MMR cause autism?

 

[Clayton Moore]

Update Clayton we are now in the 21st Century its 2013.

So how does MMR cause autism?

You tell me.

 

[Giordano]

The diseases of CHILDHOOD DISEASES in 1920 would be the same as the CHILDHOOD DISEASES of 1930, 1940, 1950, and 1960. A parent or an adult of those years would say mumps, measles, and chicken pox were the childhood diseases.
That's the truth. Period.

Oh, I see how the yellow highlighting made that extra true.

But look what I found in just a few seconds of Googling:
http://www.trailend.org/you-dangers.htm
I purposefully chose a history rather than a medical site, because we all know that medical doctors are in a conspiracy, and you are interested in what parents considered childhood diseases.

I'll find more later, if you insist, but it seems silly. You might as well insist Jupiter and Mars weren't considered planets in the 1930s.

 

[Stamuel]

I've repeatedly pointed out that tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of parents have noticed and reported to their physicians that their child regressed to autistic behavior after the child's MMR shot.

We all know that Clay is appealing to unfiltered anecdotes, that upon serious study the anecdotes do not show that MMR causes autism, and that all serious studies of the connection between MMR and autism have failed to reveal any connection at all.

But is Clay even getting the number of anecdotes right? He keeps claiming that it is tens to hundreds of thousands. I decided to check this out by consulting http://wonder.cdc.gov, a website that delivers VAERS data filtered by search criteria.

If you are not aware, VAERS is the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Anyone can submit a report claiming that some symptom followed vaccination. It is a passive reporting system to monitor vaccine safety. Point is, the database includes everything reported by anyone whether it makes sense or not, whether there is evidence or not, unless the person who submitted the report agrees to take it down (for example, someone claimed a vaccine turned him into the Hulk, and they contacted him to get his permission to remove this report). Check out the disclaimer you must read before getting their data.

So let's see how many autism reports are in VAERS, using these search criteria:

Query Criteria:
Title: Autism summary data
Age: All
Date Reported: All
Date Vaccinated: All
Event Category: All
Gender: All
Manufacturers: All
Onset Interval: All
Recovered: All
Serious: All
State / Territory: The United States, Territories, and Unknown
Symptoms: AUTISM, AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER
Vaccine Products: MEASLES, MUMPS AND RUBELLA VIRUS VACCINE, LIVE (MMR)
VAERS ID: All
Group By: Age, VAERS ID

I get 692 reports. With no restrictions other than reports of autism with MMR, we are already down to only 692.

To be generous, let's ignore the restriction to MMR vaccine and include all vaccines. Using these criteria:

Dataset: The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)
Query Parameters:
Title: Autism summary data
Age: All
Date Reported: All
Date Vaccinated: All
Event Category: All
Gender: All
Manufacturers: All
Onset Interval: All
Recovered: All
Serious: All
State / Territory: The United States, Territories, and Unknown
Symptoms: AUTISM, AUTISM SPECTRUM DISORDER
Vaccine Products: All
VAERS ID: All
Group By: Age, VAERS ID

There are now 1,032 results. In the history of VAERS, only 1,032 cases of autism have been reported as associated with vaccines.

To summarize, where are these tens to hundreds of thousands of reported correlations? I require evidence that the number of anecdotes, inconclusive as they are, is as high as claimed. The evidence I can find suggests otherwise.