Vaccination Incident

[Placebo]

In the welcome thread, I mentioned some 2nd hand anecdotal information regarding a vaccine that may have caused serious complications
Eos of the Eons asked that I elaborate, so here we are:

Up to the age of 6 weeks, he had no complications similar to what was to follow.
At 6 weeks he received standard Hib, DPT, Polio and Hepatitus vaccines as supplied by the government.
8 hours later, he experienced convulsions and turned blue in the face (this is according to the mother)
Thereafter he had frequent cases of 'absent dimensia' (as the mother calls it) where the child would stare blankly for some time and be completely unresponsive.
10 days later, he experienced another convulsion similar to the first.

She rushed to the hospital (the same that had administered the vaccine) for advice.
They initially told her that she was being paranoid, but as soon as she mentioned that it was after the vaccine, they immediately rushed doctors into the room and began to record her statements
After examination, the hospital announced that there was nothing wrong with the child

A lot of bickering took place, and nothing constructive took place thereafter.
She then went about approaching other authorities for advice - a hospital and a urologist.
They examined the boy, and together found him to have 'staring fits' and a virus in his brain, which they seemed unable to identify.
By this time, the boy was 4 months of age and the convulsions occurred less often.

After speaking to the mother this morning:
She has done some research of her own and feels that it was the DPT vaccine that caused it.
Her reasons were questionable: 'Because it's the one that is considered the most dangerous'

Through my own cheap attempt of investigation:
I feel that the symptoms could match a number of causes - including the Hib vaccine.
However it is virtually impossible for me to determine the true cause with the many factors at play.
This entire incident could be pure coincidence. In addition, it is entirely circumstantial.

Regarding the Hib vaccine - it also targets meningitus, the symptoms of which match the report quite well IMO. Please keep in mind that this is unrelated to the MMR immunisation, which is administered at a much later age.
I understand that there are manufactured antibodies in that vaccine that are supposed to prevent full-blown disease, making this unlikely too.

She has reported the incident on http://www.vaers.org in the hopes that the data there will reflect the greater picture.

I see this incident merely as a point of interest, and not particularly useful in and of itself. Naturally it is something that causes concern.

Please understand that I am in favour of vaccines, and I feel that this is by no means a reason to avoid vaccinations. Rather I see it as a reason to investigate the options (no, not homeopathy )

The mother mentioned that there was an alternative vaccine that is more costly, but is far safer. With the short time I took to research this, I cannot determine if this is indeed the case.

PS: I now realise I have posted this thread in the wrong section - my apologies Can it be moved?

 

[Placebo]

Please note that this incident could certainly be specific to South Africa's officially recommended vaccines. I suspect that it is, if the incident was indeed caused by the vaccine.

 

[Deetee]

In the welcome thread, I mentioned some 2nd hand anecdotal information regarding a vaccine that may have caused serious complications
Eos of the Eons asked that I elaborate, so here we are:

Up to the age of 6 weeks, he had no complications similar to what was to follow.
At 6 weeks he received standard Hib, DPT, Polio and Hepatitus vaccines as supplied by the government.
8 hours later, he experienced convulsions and turned blue in the face (this is according to the mother)
Thereafter he had frequent cases of 'absent dimensia' (as the mother calls it) where the child would stare blankly for some time and be completely unresponsive.
10 days later, he experienced another convulsion similar to the first.

She rushed to the hospital (the same that had administered the vaccine) for advice.
They initially told her that she was being paranoid, but as soon as she mentioned that it was after the vaccine, they immediately rushed doctors into the room and began to record her statements
After examination, the hospital announced that there was nothing wrong with the child

A lot of bickering took place, and nothing constructive took place thereafter.
She then went about approaching other authorities for advice - a hospital and a urologist.
They examined the boy, and together found him to have 'staring fits' and a virus in his brain, which they seemed unable to identify.
By this time, the boy was 4 months of age and the convulsions occurred less often.

I asssume you mean a neurologist (not urologist!)
In order to diagnose a virus in the brain, one has to do a lumbar puncture to demonstrate raised lymphocytes. If he did not have this, then they are merely diagnosing a virus on the basis of clinical likelihood, and this is a bit of a hit and miss diagnosis. If cerebrospinal fluid is obtained from a lumbar puncture, it can sometimes be sent for PCR testing for viruses, but this may not have been done.
If he had lymphocytes in the CSF the diagnosis is probably a viral meningitis/encephalitis, which exonerates the vaccines as these ones do not cause this (MMR might, rarely).

After speaking to the mother this morning:
She has done some research of her own and feels that it was the DPT vaccine that caused it.
Her reasons were questionable: 'Because it's the one that is considered the most dangerous'

Through my own cheap attempt of investigation:
I feel that the symptoms could match a number of causes - including the Hib vaccine.
However it is virtually impossible for me to determine the true cause with the many factors at play.
This entire incident could be pure coincidence. In addition, it is entirely circumstantial.

Regarding the Hib vaccine - it also targets meningitus, the symptoms of which match the report quite well IMO. Please keep in mind that this is unrelated to the MMR immunisation, which is administered at a much later age.
I understand that there are manufactured antibodies in that vaccine that are supposed to prevent full-blown disease, making this unlikely too.

HiB vaccine does not cause meningitis as a side effect/complication.

She has reported the incident on http://www.vaers.org in the hopes that the data there will reflect the greater picture.

I see this incident merely as a point of interest, and not particularly useful in and of itself. Naturally it is something that causes concern.

Please understand that I am in favour of vaccines, and I feel that this is by no means a reason to avoid vaccinations. Rather I see it as a reason to investigate the options (no, not homeopathy )

The mother mentioned that there was an alternative vaccine that is more costly, but is far safer. With the short time I took to research this, I cannot determine if this is indeed the case.

PS: I now realise I have posted this thread in the wrong section - my apologies Can it be moved?

 

[Deetee]

In the welcome thread, I mentioned some 2nd hand anecdotal information regarding a vaccine that may have caused serious complications
Eos of the Eons asked that I elaborate, so here we are:

Up to the age of 6 weeks, he had no complications similar to what was to follow.
At 6 weeks he received standard Hib, DPT, Polio and Hepatitus vaccines as supplied by the government.
8 hours later, he experienced convulsions and turned blue in the face (this is according to the mother)
Thereafter he had frequent cases of 'absent dimensia' (as the mother calls it) where the child would stare blankly for some time and be completely unresponsive.
10 days later, he experienced another convulsion similar to the first.

She rushed to the hospital (the same that had administered the vaccine) for advice.
They initially told her that she was being paranoid, but as soon as she mentioned that it was after the vaccine, they immediately rushed doctors into the room and began to record her statements
After examination, the hospital announced that there was nothing wrong with the child

A lot of bickering took place, and nothing constructive took place thereafter.
She then went about approaching other authorities for advice - a hospital and a urologist.
They examined the boy, and together found him to have 'staring fits' and a virus in his brain, which they seemed unable to identify.
By this time, the boy was 4 months of age and the convulsions occurred less often.

I asssume you mean a neurologist (not urologist!)
In order to diagnose a virus in the brain, one has to do a lumbar puncture to demonstrate raised lymphocytes. If he did not have this, then they are merely diagnosing a virus on the basis of clinical likelihood, and this is a bit of a hit and miss diagnosis. If cerebrospinal fluid is obtained from a lumbar puncture, it can sometimes be sent for PCR testing for viruses, but this may not have been done.
If he had lymphocytes in the CSF the diagnosis is probably a viral meningitis/encephalitis, which exonerates the vaccines as these ones do not cause this (MMR might, rarely).

After speaking to the mother this morning:
She has done some research of her own and feels that it was the DPT vaccine that caused it.
Her reasons were questionable: 'Because it's the one that is considered the most dangerous'

Through my own cheap attempt of investigation:
I feel that the symptoms could match a number of causes - including the Hib vaccine.
However it is virtually impossible for me to determine the true cause with the many factors at play.
This entire incident could be pure coincidence. In addition, it is entirely circumstantial.

Regarding the Hib vaccine - it also targets meningitus, the symptoms of which match the report quite well IMO. Please keep in mind that this is unrelated to the MMR immunisation, which is administered at a much later age.
I understand that there are manufactured antibodies in that vaccine that are supposed to prevent full-blown disease, making this unlikely too.

HiB vaccine does not cause meningitis as a side effect/complication.

She has reported the incident on http://www.vaers.org in the hopes that the data there will reflect the greater picture.

I see this incident merely as a point of interest, and not particularly useful in and of itself. Naturally it is something that causes concern.

Please understand that I am in favour of vaccines, and I feel that this is by no means a reason to avoid vaccinations. Rather I see it as a reason to investigate the options (no, not homeopathy )

The mother mentioned that there was an alternative vaccine that is more costly, but is far safer. With the short time I took to research this, I cannot determine if this is indeed the case.

PS: I now realise I have posted this thread in the wrong section - my apologies Can it be moved?

 

[Placebo]

Re: Re: Vaccination Incident

I asssume you mean a neurologist (not urologist!)

Haha, I spoke to her on the phone and I heard 'urologist'. I thought it was a bit strange, and you're probably right
Broken Telephone - literally

In order to diagnose a virus in the brain, one has to do a lumbar puncture to demonstrate raised lymphocytes. If he did not have this, then they are merely diagnosing a virus on the basis of clinical likelihood, and this is a bit of a hit and miss diagnosis. If cerebrospinal fluid is obtained from a lumbar puncture, it can sometimes be sent for PCR testing for viruses, but this may not have been done.
If he had lymphocytes in the CSF the diagnosis is probably a viral meningitis/encephalitis, which exonerates the vaccines as these ones do not cause this (MMR might, rarely).

Ah, interesting. She did mention encephalitis, but it may have only been her personal opinion.
I'll find out exactly what tests were done.

In any event, you feel that both viral meningitis and encephalitis cannot be caused by these particular vaccines.
Is this based on research, or lack of such reports ?

HiB vaccine does not cause meningitis as a side effect/complication.

I thought it probably wouldn't. Of course, I'm no doctor

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The problem with a report such as this is we are getting it from the mother who can only interpret what the doctors have said to her. What we really need is the complete medical record. Otherwise, the story is interesting but you can't draw a single conclusion from the story about the vaccinations or any other cause of the child's problems.

What I caution anyone trying to match this child's problem with any cause, vaccine or other, is to not do so at all. What can we possibly conclude from this information? Can you say the DPT did or didn't have anything to do with the child's seizures? It is tempting to draw conclusions. If you want to investigate the side effects of vaccinations, go the research of those vaccines, not someone's single confusing account.

If I hear a very straight forward account I am more comfortable drawing some conclusions. The kid got the vaccine and had a febrile seizure 8 hours later. Or, the kid got a viral encephalitis, unrelated to the vaccine, it was diagnosed with proper labs the Mom is at least informed enough to have understood the doctors explanations. The report from Mom fits the diagnosis she believes the doctors made. I can assume the story is probably accurate.

But when you start getting some vague confusing story, all you can say is it is an interesting or sad or whatever story. You cannot figure anything out with this kind of information so to draw conclusions from this story such as the DPT caused these symptoms is just plain irresponsible.

 

[Placebo]

If you want to investigate the side effects of vaccinations, go the research of those vaccines, not someone's single confusing account.

I agree entirely. I posted it in explanation of the brief mention I made in the welcome thread. Despite my attempt to 'clean up' the information, it is still quite impossible to draw a clear conclusion from it.

My conclusion = take the time to research medical options before taking the government's opinion for granted. Esp. in South Africa.
(NOTE: Real options, not e.g. homeopathy)

As a sceptic it sounds unreasonable to take the South African health minister's word for it - the same health minister that suggests eating garlic for HIV

 

[Barbrae]

DTP can, in fact, cause:

Serious allergic reaction (breathing difficulty, shock) (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include:
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

DTP can, in fact, cause:

Serious allergic reaction (breathing difficulty, shock) (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include:
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage.

Interesting bit of selective quotation there Barb, and you being so picky about these things and all.

That was so obviously cribbed form somewhere, I put the phrase

"Other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine."

into Google.

Google Result

What do we find? This is lifted from several sources containing identical text, so obviously all from the same parent source, probably;

www.cdc.gov/nip/publications/VIS/vis-dtp.pdf


What was the vital sentence that you didn't copy here?


"These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine."

Perhaps the version you read had missed that out, or perhaps you didn't like to include that serious qualifier.

Care to comment?

Edited to add the Google link. Oh, knickers it doesn't work, so do the search yourselves, dammit! (BTW, it does work if I copy the URL and paste it into my browser. Odd)

 

[Placebo]

DTP can, in fact, cause:

Serious allergic reaction (breathing difficulty, shock) (less than 1 out of a million doses)
Other severe problems have been reported after DTaP vaccine. These include:
Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness
Permanent brain damage.

Thank you, that's the sort of information I'd like to investigate and quantify. Where did you get that information from, if I may ask?

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
"These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine."

If that is indeed the source of the information, and it is indeed that elusive and rare, then I could only conclude that the mother/child was simply incredibly unlucky. It may have been a coincidence and we can never know.

I'd like to know if that was the source of the information

 

[Rolfe]

If that is indeed the source of the information, and it is indeed that elusive and rare, then I could only conclude that the mother/child was simply incredibly unlucky. It may have been a coincidence and we can never know.

I think this about sums it up. The key phrase is of course that such things have been "reported after the DTP vaccine", or "associated with". Extrapolating that to "caused by" is extremely problematical given the very low numbers involved.

I wonder if it's possible to do any statistics to determine whether such events are more prevalent after vaccination than otherwise? However, the extreme rarity of the events probably means there just isn't enough data. It's very tempting when one thing follows on another like that to conclude that there must have been a causative connection, but of course that simply can't be assumed.

Rolfe.

 

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

I think this about sums it up. The key phrase is of course that such things have been "reported after the DTP vaccine", or "associated with". Extrapolating that to "caused by" is extremely problematical given the very low numbers involved.

I wonder if it's possible to do any statistics to determine whether such events are more prevalent after vaccination than otherwise? However, the extreme rarity of the events probably means there just isn't enough data. It's very tempting when one thing follows on another like that to conclude that there must have been a causative connection, but of course that simply can't be assumed.

Rolfe.

Well, direct evidence of finding, say, actively expressed virus in the tissue of an affected patient when none is present in controls unaffected by that putative side effect would be interesting even if it was never found in any other person. Of course you would need a really black and white difference, a qualitative presence or absence of something really unusual. Anything other than than leads you to the usual numerical data and the need for statistically useful numbers.

This comes close to the Wakefield acolytes' constant wittering pleas to "investigate the children" i.e. look at the individual children themselves. This is superficially reasonable, but is actually irrelevant. The claimed effects are supposed to appear in large numbers of individuals, as Rolfe has already pointed out, so ferreting out some extraordinarily rare occurrences is not germane to the question of population medicine.

Same old, same old. Just like the homs making their big claims then trying to blow up the importance of occasional fluke results at the margis of statistical significance. Once again it's a lesson in human pride and self-delusion. Once you have so thoroughly identified yourself with the wrong end of the stick it is very difficult ever to let it go without having to ask uncomfortable questions about yourself.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I wouldn't make the claim there are no untoward events following any vaccination. I would make the claim the data clearly shows the total of all serious events that are determined to be caused by the vaccination as opposed to merely occuring near the time of vaccination is extremely small.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/ss/ss5201.pdf

Some excerpts:

During 1991–2001, VAERS received 128,717 reports, whereas >1.9 billion net doses of human vaccines were distributed. The overall dose-based reporting rate for the 27 frequently reported vaccine types was 11.4 reports per 100,000 net doses distributed.

The proportions of reports in the age groups <1 year, 1–6 years, 7–17 years, 18–64 years, and >65 years were 18.1%, 26.7%, 8.0%, 32.6%, and 4.9%, respectively..... Overall, 2 MMWR January 24, 2003 the most commonly reported adverse event was fever, which appeared in 25.8% of all reports, [all reports, not all vaccinations], followed by injection-site hypersensitivity (15.8%), rash (unspecified) (11.0%), injection-site edema (10.8%), and vasodilatation (10.8%).

A total of 14.2% of all reports described serious adverse events, which by regulatory definition include death, lifethreatening illness, hospitalization or prolongation of hospitalization, or permanent disability. Examples of the uses of VAERS data for vaccine safety surveillance are included in this report.

A clinical research team follows up on all deaths reported to VAERS. The majority of these deaths were ultimately classified as sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS). Analysis of the age distribution and seasonality of infant deaths reported to Vol. 52 / SS-1 Surveillance Summaries 5 VAERS indicated that they matched the age distribution and seasonality of SIDS; both peaked at aged 2–4 months and during the winter (15). The decrease in deaths reported to VAERS since 1992–1993 parallels the overall decrease in SIDS in the U.S. population since the implementation of the Back to Sleep campaign (15). Carefully controlled epidemiologic studies consistently have not found any association between SIDS and vaccines (16–19).

FDA and the Institute of Medicine (IOM) reviewed 206 deaths reported to VAERS during 1990–1991. Only one death was believed to have resulted from a vaccine. The patient was a woman aged 28 years who died from Guillain-Barré syndrome after tetanus vaccination (20).

IOM concluded that the majority of deaths reported to VAERS are temporally but not causally related to vaccination (20). A similar conclusion was reached regarding neonatal deaths temporally reported to VAERS in association with hepatitis B vaccination (21).

VAERS reports from 1991 (when whole cell pertussis vaccines were used exclusively) through 2001 (when acellular pertussis vaccines were used predominantly) documented that the overall vaccine-specific reporting rates of both serious and nonserious reports for DTaP had decreased to less than one half of that for DTP among children aged <7 years (Table 10).

In comparison with all whole cell pertussis-containing vaccines (DTP and DTPH), the overall nonserious adverse events reporting rate for DTaP vaccines was approximately 40% lower (10.5 versus 16.8 reports per 100,000 net doses distributed). Although reduction in adverse reporting rates is suggestive of a safer vaccine, such comparisons must be interpreted cautiously because reporting rates cannot be viewed as incidence rates. Two studies have documented an improved safety profile of DTaP vaccines based on review of VAERS data from 1991–1993 among children and 1995–1998 among infants
(39,40).

The decreasing trends for selected systemic adverse events (e.g., fever) and neurologic reactions (e.g., seizures) continued to be observed during 1999–2001 (Figures 6 and 7). However, an increase in the number of reports concerning injection-site reactions was detected by the end of this surveillance period (Figure 8). The increase is more prominent among the recipients of booster doses of DTaP (fourth and fifth dose). This finding is consistent with the results of a recent study that documented an increase in the risk of extensive local reactions in recipients of fourth and fifth doses of the DTaP vaccines (41).

 

[Placebo]

Thanks skeptigirl

In other words, statististically (ie. debatable) that means 0.000114 % chance of a negative side-effect, per dose. And even less of a serious one

In addition, if one insists on the DTaP vaccine, you further reduce any risk there might be by another 40% per dose (statistically again)

I'm assuming for the moment that the 'alternative vaccine' that was mentioned to me is DTaP. It only costs slightly more than a full tank of fuel, so it's more than worth it.

 

[Rolfe]

[derail]
We had another non-vaccination death in the lab last week. An adult dog, died suddenly a few hours after a booster vaccination. Cause of death, aspiration pneumonia. My junior pathologist was seriously considering adverse vaccination reaction as the underlying cause, as the coincidence was striking and there seemed to be no other precipitating reason. He took a lot of histology samples, and in the end the report was that there was no sign of any laryngeal oedema or anything that might reasonably point to the vaccine.

Final conclusion was that it was just a tragic accident, perhaps brought on by the dog being exercised on a full stomach and having a bit of gastric reflux. And it's true that we see a small number of similar cases each year, when there's no booster vaccination associated with the event. It's just that when the booster happened to be given, the natural post hoc ergo propter hoc assumptions start to fly, in the minds of the pathologists just as much as everyone else. The difference is that we look for evidence before deciding whether that is actually the case.

Again, who knows whether the owners will accept the scientific findings, or whether another "vaccine death" will be touted on the anti-vax boards next week regardless of the facts.
[/derail]

Rolfe.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Thanks skeptigirl

In other words, statististically (ie. debatable) that means 0.000114 % chance of a negative side-effect, per dose. And even less of a serious one

In addition, if one insists on the DTaP vaccine, you further reduce any risk there might be by another 40% per dose (statistically again)

I'm assuming for the moment that the 'alternative vaccine' that was mentioned to me is DTaP. It only costs slightly more than a full tank of fuel, so it's more than worth it.

DTaP is the only vaccine used now, in the USA anyway, to my knowledge. I could be wrong as I don't give as many pediatric vaccinations but I'm pretty sure.

Vaccine manufacturers along with following CDC ACIP recommendations are always going to move toward lower risk vaccines. They don't have the same profit motive as a drug manufacturer marketing a closely related drug to get market share when a patented drug is involved.

While there is competition for market share, the minute a vaccine is shown to have lower risk and be as effective, other manufacturers' products are not going to be competitive. Even if there was competition in such a case, the ACIP recommendations direct vaccine choice, not advertising unless the products are considered equal.

A good example was the recent ACIP recommendation to change to inactive polio vaccine and not live polio vaccine in the USA. Vaccine associated disease occurred in less than 10 cases/year but once the natural virus infection rate dropped below that consistently, the change to inactivated vaccine was made.

Why, you may ask wasn't the recommendation changed sooner? The reason was the live vaccine use resulted in broader coverage sooner among susceptible children. If all parents took their kids in on time and made sure they all got the 3 doses of IVP, the two vaccines might have had the same coverage, but that wasn't the case. With polio mostly eliminated from the Americas, (the exception is the continual risk of it being brought back in), we can afford to have a little less efficient vaccine coverage in the population. If polio were to re-emerge, we'd likely go back to the live vaccine form.

The bottom line is the CDC is continually re-evaluating vaccine vs disease risk. They do an excellent and very thorough job of it .

 

[Chris Haynes]

...She has reported the incident on http://www.vaers.org in the hopes that the data there will reflect the greater picture...

I noticed on the VAERS website that it takes "nationwide" reports for US manufactured vaccines. You are in South Africa... does the report reflect that?

Already I have found out that "DTP" in the UK means Diptheria-Tetanus-Polio (http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=96 ... oh, wait it is called Td / IPV -- still confused).

Anyway, VAERS is interesting. Take this comment from http://www.ssr.com/cgi-bin/ezmlm-cgi?1:mss:96136:nkkncooplbiadpohkmpo

Ah, the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System (VAERS) - the fertile field of Geier and Geier. Unfortuately for G&G, VAERS is not a valid atabase in the sense of getting useful epidemiologic or statistical information. VAERS does not mandate reporting and does not require confirmation of any report, no matter how outrageous. To test this, I submitted a report (October 2004) that an influenza vaccination had caused me to turn green, grow large muscles and growl a lot (see: The Incredible Hulk). This was dutifully recorded in the database. After it appeared in their online database, I called and asked them to remove it, which they did. The person I spoke to mentioned that they found the report odd, but had no authority to remove it on their own.

Also, just like the US, the UK immunization schedule is DTaP and IPV for the early years:
http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=97

By the way, seizures can just happen. My son had them when he was 2 days old -- way before he got injections of anykind (he is to old to have had the HepB at birth).

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

HC, the data base is just that, data. Any analysis using the data base would certainly take into account the limitations of the data.

Drug companies also collect the same data sent in by practitioners voluntarily. We also send in reports on things like inadvertent use in pregnancy with or without untoward results. As a provider, there are often reports available that review the data collected in these unpublished reports.

 

[Placebo]

Re: Re: Vaccination Incident

The bottom line is the CDC is continually re-evaluating vaccine vs disease risk. They do an excellent and very thorough job of it

It's not the CDC that bothers me. It's the government funded vaccines that bother me. The moment our health minister has a say in my health, I get worried. I suspect that our government recommended/sponsored vaccine isn't DTaP.

That said - it seems that it would cost me the equivalent of a tank of petrol to obtain DTaP

I noticed on the VAERS website that it takes "nationwide" reports for US manufactured vaccines. You are in South Africa... does the report reflect that?

Good point - I have no idea

Already I have found out that "DTP" in the UK means Diptheria-Tetanus-Polio (http://www.immunisation.nhs.uk/article.php?id=96 ... oh, wait it is called Td / IPV -- still confused).

Well, someone is confused
It's diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus

By the way, seizures can just happen.

Exactly why this particular, singled out case isn't that useful

 

[Chris Haynes]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hydrogen Cyanide

The bottom line is the CDC is continually re-evaluating vaccine vs disease risk. They do an excellent and very thorough job of it

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just a note to be careful when editting quotes, that is not my quote... it should have been:

...The bottom line is the CDC is continually re-evaluating vaccine vs disease risk. They do an excellent and very thorough job of it .