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Utopia and Time Travel

Apathia said:
Dear Future Time Travelers,

I'm leaving this message to you in the International Skeptics Forum which I'm sure the archives of which will be read by scholars and school children in the 23rd Century.

Please, if it's not against regulations use your time travel technology to go back to October 22, 2016 and prevent the dirty bomb terrorist attack on Los Angeles.

Thank you for any assistance,
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Genius!

While they're in the area, I hope it's not too much trouble to prevent the loss of Hawaiian Air 50 to JFK that crashed in Brooklyn this morning, December 10, 2016, at 6:14 a.m. Eastern, killing all aboard and over 400 on the ground.
 
Brainache said:
Now is when the photons meet your eye. You take the now with you when you move. Time and space are relative...
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Sounds good.

Time is the invention of consciousness.

And language is a virus...
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Like Languish...lexical semantics...language becomes the purveyor of limitation in that dept.
...especially when 'getting the gist' will do fine and hurry things up in relation to communication..because *time*.

:)

But "NOW is the MOMENT" is good...the past was a now which had repercussions on its future (our now) and the future is written NOW, in that light.

If we want to time travel in order to help the future, then we have to do that firstly in our minds and then start working on that NOW.

That's about as good as it gets in relation to time travel and having an effect on the future...the past is with us, - we live with that and it goes nowhere in regard to its repercussion.

But as to the future being able to help in that way (by someone from the future coming back to make something happen now in order to change that future etc) we would be better off not relying on something like that since we already know about cause and effect and have the power to effectively do the same thing if we wanted to.
 
Hokulele said:
Have you ever seen anything without width?
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I wasn't asking if things are real.

But since you have brought them back into the argument, what I said;

Time is measured by the observation of the movement of things in relation to what is observing and measuring those things.

Time exists in the mind and interpreted through the movement of things.

Therefore those dimensions of time and width etc...exist in the mind.
 
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Navigator said:
Time is measured by the observation of the movement of things in relation to what is observing and measuring those things.
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Movement of things isn't necessary for the observation of time. This is because time is related to entropy and the second law of thermodynamics. The "arrow of time" is derived from that. Change of things can be observed as a measurement of time and it doesn't require movement.
 
William Parcher said:
Movement of things isn't necessary for the observation of time. This is because time is related to entropy and the second law of thermodynamics. The "arrow of time" is derived from that. Change of things can be observed as a measurement of time and it doesn't require movement.
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Wrong.

Change requires movement.

Everything in this universe MOVES.
 
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Loss Leader said:
Genius!

While they're in the area, I hope it's not too much trouble to prevent the loss of Hawaiian Air 50 to JFK that crashed in Brooklyn this morning, December 10, 2016, at 6:14 a.m. Eastern, killing all aboard and over 400 on the ground.
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Well there you go! The ISF Forum is going to have a huge impact on history!
 
William Parcher said:
You mean like the Washington Monument that never moves but is still moving because the earth is moving through space?
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No. Well not exactly as you have worded that. :)

I mean that the Washington Monument is always moving because the universe is always moving.

The monument might appear not to be moving by someone in front of it observing (relative to) it...the observer is also moving, thus it appears to 'never move'.

The truth of the matter is - everything in this universe moves...so 'time' does not exist as some external 'dimension'. It is 'in the mind of the observer'.

In the same way, Andromeda might appear not to be moving...but it sure friken well is. :)

So...Movement of things IS necessary for the observation of the conceptual idea of 'time' but time is not what is being really observed. Movement is what is being observed.
 
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I would be curious how one would measure time by observing the movement of the Washington Monument. It's made of stone and weighs about 81,000 tons.

I would not expect movement to be what is measured as opposed to change. Change such as decomposition, erosion, oxidation, fracturing, etc. These things are related to entropy, disorder, thermodynamics, etc.
 
William Parcher said:
I would be curious how one would measure time by observing the movement of the Washington Monument. It's made of stone and weighs about 81,000 tons.
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"Sundial" springs to mind. Movement of the shadow of the stone in relation to movement of the sun = measure of time.

The earth is even a heavier stone, but because it moves, predictions involving time can accurately forecast eclipses

I would not expect movement to be what is measured as opposed to change. Change such as decomposition, erosion, oxidation, fracturing, etc. These things are related to entropy, disorder, thermodynamics, etc.
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You are making out like movement is not related to change. They are different interpretations of the same process.

Movement in relation to change can be used to measure time - like in 'how old is this fossil?'.
 
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Navigator said:
"Sundial" springs to mind.
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Sure, but that only works because the monument doesn't move.


You are making out like movement is not related to change. They are different interpretations of the same process.
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Movement is a form of change, but you stated that movement is the single criteria used to measure time. I don't think so.

Movement in relation to change can be used to measure time - like in 'how old is this fossil?'.
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Carbon decay. Carbon dating. But what moved that was measured? Nothing moved. It's a measurement of change in the radioactive isotopes. It's a measurement of atomic decay which is thermodynamics and the entropy thing.
 
Navigator, you should be able to kick my ass because I'm only slightly knowledgeable about physics and chemistry and space and time.
 
William Parcher said:
Sure, but that only works because the monument doesn't move.
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You are saying that of all the objects in the universe, the monument is the only thing which doesn't move?

:D

No, of course you're not. You are saying it doesn't move as fast as the sun...or more to the point, the planet the monument is on, doesn't move as fast as the sun, so time can be measured because of that.

But it is all still about movement.

Movement is a form of change, but you stated that movement is the single criteria used to measure time. I don't think so.
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Well, it doesn't matter what you think about it. It only matters that everything moves, so if measuring time inside the universe can be done, movement is the single criteria for allowing that.

There is no way to measure time without movement. That is that.


Carbon decay. Carbon dating. But what moved that was measured?
Nothing moved.
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Nothing? Are you sure? Was the universe standing still then?


It's a measurement of change in the radioactive isotopes. It's a measurement of atomic decay which is thermodynamics and the entropy thing.
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All quite conveniently MOVING with the universe. It is not some separate thing outside the universe you are speaking about here.
 
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