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Utah Accepts Gold As Currency

Solitaire

Neoclinus blanchardi
Solitaire
Joined
Jul 25, 2001
Messages
3,098
Location
Tennessee
Utah Accepts Gold & Silver Bullion As Currency

Utah is now accepting gold and silver as legal tender for transactions and to settle debts according to a bill recently signed into law by Governor Gary R. Herbert. Several other states have proposed similar measures in the wake of the monetary policies of the Federal Reserve and the decreasing value of paper money.

Utah’s law is notable because it is the first such bill to pass. Over 150 years ago Congress passed the Legal Tender Act which authorized the use of paper notes to pay bills and while paper money still retains the value noted, interest rates governing bonds and other savings or investment vehicles are at historic lows and are expected to remain at those lows through at least 2014.
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Give Me Your Gold
Give Me Your Gold
Yeah!
Yeah!

You've got a nugget in your pocket
Gout a nuggets in your hand
You got a nugget in your pocket
Got a nugget for a grand

So forget your hesitation
Take as an invitation
It's for a great confusion
It's for a grand illusion

Clouds, love, stars, color
 
I'm puzzled.

Does this mean that it is an OPTION for businesses to accept gold & silver bullion to settle debts? (Presumably it always has been an option). Or does this mean that if I want to pay for my groceries at Safeway with a couple of ounces of Johnson & Mathey silver ingots, they HAVE to accept them? Or does this apply only for transactions with the state of Utah? (Property taxes etc...)
 
I assume this applies only to assayed metal and bullion. This raises the question on bullion coins if their value is spot, premium or face.
 
JJM 777 said:
First I misread the title as: "Utah accepts God as currency".
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"In God we trust"
Antiquehunter said:
I'm puzzled.

Does this mean that it is an OPTION for businesses to accept gold & silver bullion to settle debts? (Presumably it always has been an option). Or does this mean that if I want to pay for my groceries at Safeway with a couple of ounces of Johnson & Mathey silver ingots, they HAVE to accept them? Or does this apply only for transactions with the state of Utah? (Property taxes etc...)
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My understanding is that you deposit gold in some kind of bank and get a debit card which you can use to actually pay for things.
 
Antiquehunter said:
I'm puzzled.

Does this mean that it is an OPTION for businesses to accept gold & silver bullion to settle debts? (Presumably it always has been an option). Or does this mean that if I want to pay for my groceries at Safeway with a couple of ounces of Johnson & Mathey silver ingots, they HAVE to accept them? Or does this apply only for transactions with the state of Utah? (Property taxes etc...)
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I don't see why not.

Governments have declared exchanges of goods for goods as sales, thus sales taxes are applicable. (Under that concept, neither side technically must pay the tax -- together they must, though in practice the retailer is required to send it in. Sometimes companies advertise they will "pay your sales tax", and confused subgeniuses working for the government think, incorrectly, that this is wrong since the customer must "pay" the tax.)

I would assume a state government could decide to accept bales of hay if they wanted to.
 
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Beerina said:
I don't see why not.

Governments have declared exchanges of goods for goods as sales, thus sales taxes are applicable. (Under that concept, neither side technically must pay the tax -- together they must, though in practice the retailer is required to send it in. Sometimes companies advertise they will "pay your sales tax", and confused subgeniuses working for the government think, incorrectly, that this is wrong since the customer must "pay" the tax.)

I would assume a state government could decide to accept bales of hay if they wanted to.
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Precisely, so this bill achieves... nothing expect spending taxpayer's money in executing its passage?

Each taxpayer to send in a few grams of gold to cover the time wasted?
 
Puppycow said:
My understanding is that you deposit gold in some kind of bank and get a debit card which you can use to actually pay for things.
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Which sounds entirely reasonable. I am surprised if you cannot do it elsewhere.
 
Beerina said:
"I prayed my taxes in last night, what's the problem officer?"
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Well, it's a little tricky in Utah. If you're taxes are going to fund science research about other planets, you'd have to pray to other gods of those planets because Mormons believe that each planet has its own god.
 
Puppycow said:
"In God we trust"


My understanding is that you deposit gold in some kind of bank and get a debit card which you can use to actually pay for things.
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How's that work? At the end of the day your fast food purchases are all tallied up and the appropriate amount is Dremel'd off of your gold brick?
 
Aside from the logistical problems, who would take advantage of this? I can't imagine the gold bugs do -- they want to KEEP their gold and will happily pay you in "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes instead.

I suspect laws like this are more symbolic than anything. It's a talking point for the "End the Fed" types.
 
Dunstan said:
Aside from the logistical problems, who would take advantage of this? I can't imagine the gold bugs do -- they want to KEEP their gold and will happily pay you in "worthless" Federal Reserve Notes instead.

I suspect laws like this are more symbolic than anything. It's a talking point for the "End the Fed" types.
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Nope.

You are forgetting the dealers who routinely buy and sell. A gold bug would have no issue with using gold in transactions, because he could get more as easily as that which he got previously. Cause and effect may be confused here - if gold is not allowed for transactions, then "the gold bugs will keep their gold".....
 
Astrodude said:
Well, it's a little tricky in Utah. If you're taxes are going to fund science research about other planets, you'd have to pray to other gods of those planets because Mormons believe that each planet has its own god.
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So "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" is restored to its rightful place as acknowledging the factual existance of other gods?

Sweet! Almost makes me wanna abandon atheism.
 
Solitaire said:

Give Me Your Gold
Give Me Your Gold
Yeah!
Yeah!

You've got a nugget in your pocket
Gout a nuggets in your hand
You got a nugget in your pocket
Got a nugget for a grand

So forget your hesitation
Take as an invitation
It's for a great confusion
It's for a grand illusion

Clouds, love, stars, color
Click to expand...

Yello! I'd link the video but I'm blocked at the moment.
 
Well, it's not all bad. In less than a year Utah will be able to illustrate just why gold backed currency is such a terrible idea and the pointless debate will be settled once and for all.
 
Antiquehunter said:
I'm puzzled.

Does this mean that it is an OPTION for businesses to accept gold & silver bullion to settle debts? (Presumably it always has been an option). Or does this mean that if I want to pay for my groceries at Safeway with a couple of ounces of Johnson & Mathey silver ingots, they HAVE to accept them? Or does this apply only for transactions with the state of Utah? (Property taxes etc...)
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[A] person may not compel another person to tender or accept specie legal tender except as expressly provided by contract...
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Full details of H.B. 157 here: http://le.utah.gov/~2012/bills/hbillint/hb0157s01.htm

It's really just an amendment to an existing act and hardly replaces money with silver and gold. Here's another important clause:

(3) Gold or silver coin or bullion, other than gold or silver coin that is issued by the United States, is considered to be specie legal tender and is legal tender in the state if:
(a) a court of competent jurisdiction issues a final, unappealable judgment or order determining that the state may recognize the gold or silver coin or bullion, other than gold or silver coin that is issued by the United States, as legal tender in the state; or
(b) congress enacts legislation that:
(i) expressly provides that the gold or silver coin or bullion, other than gold or silver coin that is issued by the United States, is legal tender in the state; or
(ii) expressly allows the state to recognize the gold or silver coin or bullion, other than gold or silver coin that is issued by the United States, as legal tender in the state.
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It's a publicity stunt. They've taken a state act and amended it to make it appear they're doing something revolutionary.
 
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