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Moderated Using wrong pronouns= violence??

johnny karate said:
This is the first line of the quoted post: "Yes this is all very silly, Thermal."

Where did I tack on an extraneous pronoun, Thermal?
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You continue to rely on repeating a proper name when the issue is pronouns. It continues to not be A) pointed.

Does johnnykarate know what zhey call it when johnnykarate substantially alters a position to make it easier to attack? Thermal bets johnnykarate does.
 
Thermal said:
From the beginning of the OP article:



Yeah, this is the part that is pissing me off. No one with normal intelligence living in 21st century America would or should refer to a stranger as "ze" for no reason.
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Which is why they said use "they" as well.
 
Thermal said:
Nice strawman. Funny how you frequently criticize others for using logical fallacies when you so readily embrace them.
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That wasn't a logical fallacy because that wasn't an argument. You're being ridiculous, so I wanted to be a little ridiculous, too. :dqueen
 
Darat said:
Which is why they said use "they" as well.
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I believe you recently opined that you have never come across this issue in your life. Does it seem reasonable, then, to modify your pronoun usage addressing everyone for something which, you know....never happens?

I am fine with being corrected by a person who I "guessed wrong". I see no reason to ze or they the planet at large or introduce myself with preferred pronouns. Seems like it's one of those things that can be handled on the fly without a global solution which applies to almost no one.
 
Upchurch said:
That wasn't a logical fallacy because that wasn't an argument. You're being ridiculous, so I wanted to be a little ridiculous, too. :dqueen
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You reframed the argument to "oppression of the cis-normstive" in order to ridicule it with greater ease. A textbook strawman.
 
Thermal said:
You continue to rely on repeating a proper name when the issue is pronouns. It continues to not be A) pointed.

Does johnnykarate know what zhey call it when johnnykarate substantially alters a position to make it easier to attack? Thermal bets johnnykarate does.
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Got it, thanks for the clarification, Thermal.

Being told you have to address me by the ridiculous moniker "johnny karate" is not a problem, but being told you have to address me by my preferred pronouns would be an egregious affront and make you feel "highly harassed".

Now that you've explained it, it doesn't sound stupid at all. Again, exactly how a normal, emotionally-healthy adult would behave.
 
Thermal said:
I believe you recently opined that you have never come across this issue in your life. Does it seem reasonable, then, to modify your pronoun usage addressing everyone for something which, you know....never happens?

I am fine with being corrected by a person who I "guessed wrong". I see no reason to ze or they the planet at large or introduce myself with preferred pronouns. Seems like it's one of those things that can be handled on the fly without a global solution which applies to almost no one.
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I have over the years become more aware of my own default sexing with gender pronouns. In the past I used to use the construction such as “he/she” when I wasn’t sure, I’ve found using “they” is much less cumbersome and seems friendlier and more polite to me.
 
Darat said:
I have over the years become more aware of my own default sexing with gender pronouns. In the past I used to use the construction such as “he/she” when I wasn’t sure, I’ve found using “they” is much less cumbersome and seems friendlier and more polite to me.
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I get that, and can see why you use "they" on suspension announcements and the like. I mean, you often simply don't know and don't want to offend, which is considerate. But to my American ear, it can carry a vibe of "you're not a real wo/man", which I'd take as a harder slam
 
johnny karate said:
Got it, thanks for the clarification, Thermal.

Being told you have to address me by the ridiculous moniker "johnny karate" is not a problem, but being told you have to address me by my preferred pronouns would be an egregious affront and make you feel "highly harassed".

Now that you've explained it, it doesn't sound stupid at all. Again, exactly how a normal, emotionally-healthy adult would behave.
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Again, no, although it's kind of cute how you are trying to Socratically lead the exchange and yet are oblivious that it is not going how you rehearsed it in your head.

A proper name, nickname, and yes even a screen name have no requirement to ignore reality and the evaluation of your senses. An inapplicable pronoun can, because of sex specificity.

ETA:I note you consider your preferred screen name to be "ridiculous", thus acknowledging it is subject to ridicule. I'll keep your advice in mind when preferred nomenclature comes up.
 
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Thermal said:
A proper name, nickname, and yes even a screen name have no requirement to ignore reality and the evaluation of your senses. An inapplicable pronoun can, because of sex specificity.
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I also approach each casual social interaction thinking "This person better not make me ignore reality and the evaluation of senses" and then proceed to make that interaction as pointlessly antagonistic as possible.

Again, this is a very healthy and normal way to engage with the world.
 
johnny karate said:
I also approach each casual social interaction thinking "This person better not make me ignore reality and the evaluation of senses" and then proceed to make that interaction as pointlessly antagonistic as possible.
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Welcome to ISF, you're going to love it here!
 
He/she and they/them are pronouns everyone is familiar with and they have been in use forever. I have no problem using whichever of those someone prefers but I'm less inclined to oblige other newly created terms like zhir. I have enough trouble remembering everyone's name. Further I can understand someone born male feeling female and wanting to be referred to as her. I don't understand how something like zhir fits into that thought process or how creating new pronouns like zhir is much different from people wanting their pronoun to be patriot.
 
I think it may be an issue of wanting to promote genderless references. I approve of the idea, but adoption is a problem because people are creatures of habit. There may also be a friction between wanting a pronoun to convey more nuances of gender than just "he" and "she", and wanting a pronoun that does not convey a gender at all.

And then you get the standards issue.

https://xkcd.com/927/

I am also reminded of this clever essay:

Doug Hofstadter: A Person Paper on Purity in Language
 
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Upchurch said:
Skip. No one said anything about death. That's nothing but straw man.
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Inability to grok analogies is noted. Also worth noting that an understanding of the difference between figurative and literal language and connotation is a fundamental element of understanding simile, metaphor, and analogy.

Upchurch said:
Okay, you spend some time catching up with the thread and the many, many, many, many links and definitions that prove everything you said is rubbish, then let's talk.
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Figurative versus Literal.

It's a very important distinction, and one with which you should acquaint yourself.
 
johnny karate said:
I also approach each casual social interaction thinking "This person better not make me ignore reality and the evaluation of senses" and then proceed to make that interaction as pointlessly antagonistic as possible.

Again, this is a very healthy and normal way to engage with the world.
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Again, totally imaginary, so enjoy that debate you are having with those voices you're hearing.
 
Upchurch said:
More or less imaginary than the people demanding you refer to them as zhr?
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"Xe" was the actual pronoun I was instructed to use, not that it matters. My experience was entirely Meatspace. Do you understand now?

And the UC Boulder guidelines seem to indicate this is so everyday an occurrence as to advise students to make no assumptions about anyone, and address them as "ze".

Got someone who keeps referring to the student guideline, you sure seems to forget an awful lot.
 
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