US troops in Iraq using steroids.

[Tmy]

Since roids were back in the sports news lately I thought Id post this story.

Its really interesting. These guys are in a dangerous war zone, so the danger of roids probably doesnt phase them much. And people are surprised that athletes with millions on the line endanger themsleves with the stuff. Truth is there is not much outhere to discourge roid use. Its not like other drugs. Who knows anyone whos OD'd on steroids?




Baghdad Juicing

Italian police seized 215,000 doses of prohibited substances as they smashed a ring that supplied steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs to customers around the world, including U.S. soldiers in Iraq, a police official said Monday.

The U.S. military in Iraq had no immediate comment, but Joe Donahue, program director for the Vietnam Vets of America Foundation, who spent 16 months in Iraq -- often lifting weights in the Green Zone gyms -- said steroids were available to those who wanted them.

 

[Rob Lister]

The U.S. military in Iraq had no immediate comment, but Joe Donahue, program director for the Vietnam Vets of America Foundation, who spent 16 months in Iraq -- often lifting weights in the Green Zone gyms -- said steroids were available to those who wanted them.

Sure they are available, just like hash and meth and coke and smack. But soldiers get random drug tests.

You can 'expect' about two a year but you never know when. Sometimes you might get even more.

If you pop positive you can expect quite a bit more than a "10 day suspension". More like a months pay (split by two months), 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, and reduction in paygrade. An E-6 or above can expect all this and an immediate discharge.

 

[WildCat]

Re: Re: US troops in Iraq using steroids.

Sure they are available, just like hash and meth and coke and smack. But soldiers get random drug tests.

You can 'expect' about two a year but you never know when. Sometimes you might get even more.

If you pop positive you can expect quite a bit more than a "10 day suspension". More like a months pay (split by two months), 45 days restriction, 45 days extra duty, and reduction in paygrade. An E-6 or above can expect all this and an immediate discharge.

But do the armed forces test for steroids? There's thousands of variations of them, and it's probably an expensive endeavor to test for all of them. Might make sense for elite athletics, but maybe not for 1,000,000+ members of the armed forces.

 

[Rob Lister]

Re: Re: Re: US troops in Iraq using steroids.

But do the armed forces test for steroids? There's thousands of variations of them, and it's probably an expensive endeavor to test for all of them. Might make sense for elite athletics, but maybe not for 1,000,000+ members of the armed forces.

I know that they do test for steroids but I don't know the complexities of the protocols. I don't know if a single test can pick up all of the variations but there is probably some commonality. IOW, donno.

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: Re: US troops in Iraq using steroids.

But do the armed forces test for steroids? There's thousands of variations of them, and it's probably an expensive endeavor to test for all of them. Might make sense for elite athletics, but maybe not for 1,000,000+ members of the armed forces.

Yes, they test for steroids on the piss test. And just about every other drug you can think of.

As for "zero tolerance," what Rob Lister stated in the way of punishment was not the case when I was in the Navy. It didn't matter what rank you were. If you popped positive for an illegal substance, you were discharged, period.

I was just posting on SC about a fellow CPO who we were all pretty sure was using steroids. He was huge. Had a bad acne breakout and a hell of a bad temper. He used to totally lose it during heavy sea rolls when we'd all be tossed around in our racks.

I took him aside after it had been going on awhile and offerred to trade him my bottom rack for his middle rack, and spoke about his temper.

Shortly after, the Navy started testing for steroids. Next thing you know, this CPO's acne problem cleared up and he was the nicest guy you ever met.

When we made a port call in Greece, word got around you could buy steroids over the counter there. We had about 1100 Marines on our ship and one of them was busted carrying a few hundred syringes of the stuff onto the ship in his back pack. Idiot.

 

[AmateurScientist]

Re: Re: Re: Re: US troops in Iraq using steroids.

I was just posting on SC about a fellow CPO who we were all pretty sure was using steroids. He was huge. Had a bad acne breakout and a hell of a bad temper. He used to totally lose it during heavy sea rolls when we'd all be tossed around in our racks.

I took him aside after it had been going on awhile and offerred to trade him my bottom rack for his middle rack, and spoke about his temper.

Shortly after, the Navy started testing for steroids. Next thing you know, this CPO's acne problem cleared up and he was the nicest guy you ever met.

Very cool approach you had there, Luke. That's exactly what I would have done.

When we made a port call in Greece, word got around you could buy steroids over the counter there. We had about 1100 Marines on our ship and one of them was busted carrying a few hundred syringes of the stuff onto the ship in his back pack. Idiot.

Yeah, idiot is right. Did he get offered and accept a Chapter 10 (I don't know what the Navy calls a discharge in lieu of court-martial)? Did his commander prefer charges against him? If he went to trial and was found guilty, did he get any time? I wouldn't think dealing would be an Article 15 offense to a commander, but you never know.

AS

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: US troops in Iraq using steroids.

Yeah, idiot is right. Did he get offered and accept a Chapter 10 (I don't know what the Navy calls a discharge in lieu of court-martial)? Did his commander prefer charges against him? If he went to trial and was found guilty, did he get any time? I wouldn't think dealing would be an Article 15 offense to a commander, but you never know.

AS

I don't know what the final disposition of his case was. I only heard of his apprehension in the CPO mess from the Chief Master At Arms, who was Navy and responsible for the quarterdeck searches. It was handled by the Marines from there and I didn't ask about it. It never occurred to me that he might have been found guilty of dealing. He certainly had the weight.

 

[Questioninggeller]

I saw that article the other day. The only thing suprising is not that roids are available, but rather how much of a supply there is in the "green zone." Soldiers using drugs like roids and speed is nothing shocking.

 

[joe1347]

I saw that article the other day. The only thing suprising is not that roids are available, but rather how much of a supply there is in the "green zone." Soldiers using drugs like roids and speed is nothing shocking.

Plus I wonder if the non-financial penalties for testing positive (for anything) have been "relaxed" somewhat?

 

[Kevin_Lowe]

I read an article years ago stating that the Australian SAS were experimenting with using roids as part of their training. As they said, they enhance performance and war isn't a sport where rules of fair play apply.

If it helps break down the idiotic social stigma attacher to performance enhancing drugs, it's all good by me.

 

[epepke]

This surprises me. Why would the armed forces not want people to take steroids? They aren't even illegal. I can see prohibiting dope or opiates, because they mellow people out, but steroids make people stong and mean, and isn't that the basic point of the military? Sure, they increase the risk of cancer, but so do cigarettes, and the military subsidizes cigarettes for its members, although they no longer hand them out as rations.

The only reason there is the occasional scandal in sports is because of some ideas of fair play. Even that happens only sporadically. I have a hard time imagining that anybody with a three-digit IQ couldn't tell that Mark McGwire was up to his eyeballs in steroids ten years ago. Nobody cared. Now it's trendy to care, but that, too, will pass.

 

[AmateurScientist]

This surprises me. Why would the armed forces not want people to take steroids? They aren't even illegal.

Ummm....yes, they are. Anabolic steroids are controlled substances and possession of them is prohibited by federal law in the U.S. See 21 U.S.C. Section 802 (41)(A). They've been illegal in the US since 1990, and Congress has amended the law to include more substances within the definition of illegal steroids as late as 2004. Expect that trend to continue.

Unlawful possession of anabolic steroids is prohibited by most states' laws as well.

I can see prohibiting dope or opiates, because they mellow people out, but steroids make people stong and mean, and isn't that the basic point of the military?

No. The point of the military is national defense. Good order and discipline are absolutely necessary to the effectiveness of any military organization, and the increased aggression which is a common side effect of the unlawful use of anabolic steroids is definitely not conducive to good order and discipline in a military unit. Neither is a demonstrated willingness to break the law so openly. Ask any NCO or officer who has had to deal with such a discipline problem. In general, the ones who exhibit the increased aggression and willingness to openly flaut the law are a pain in the ass.

With the possible exception of certain small special operations units (and even then I have the same concerns, but sometimes these guys have their own special bonds and MOs and get along very well), I cannot think of any positive benefit to having anabolic steroid abusers in a regular military unit.

AS

 

[Mephisto]

Good Point, Joe!

Plus I wonder if the non-financial penalties for testing positive (for anything) have been "relaxed" somewhat?

I'm wondering if the restrictions for testing positive have been waived completely. It's no secret that the military is having trouble recruiting new meat, and they can only rotate so many people so many times to Iraq involuntarily. With the cut in recruitment and the cuts in military numbers due to disability, disenchantment and death, I would suspect that the military might turn a blind eye to the one drug common to many sports heros and the governor of California.

 

[epepke]

Ummm....yes, they are. Anabolic steroids are controlled substances and possession of them is prohibited by federal law in the U.S. See 21 U.S.C. Section 802 (41)(A). They've been illegal in the US since 1990, and Congress has amended the law to include more substances within the definition of illegal steroids as late as 2004. Expect that trend to continue.

Well, gosh a mickle! You'd better tell all those physicians who prescribe controlled substances that those substances are illegal. I'm just glad that when I had acute pancreatitis there was a felonious hospital that was willing to give me morphine, in spite of the fact that, as a Schedule II drug, it's considered more dangerous than anabolic steroids, which are Schedule III drugs! After my cholicesctomy, I even posessed Schedule II drugs at home! Yes, I mean oxycodone! Won't somebody think of the children?

The vast majority of anabolic steroids are prescribed by physicians. The vast majority who use them get the prescriptions from sports physicians. Perhaps you can explain to me how this is illegal.

You may not like steroids. I don't. I think that anabolic steroids are a bad idea unless you're being treated for AIDS or lupus or something. Besides, if I had more metabolites of androgens in my blood stream, my eyebrows would probably fall off. Maybe the military has a special bug up it's butt about anabolic steroids. But still, even the Feds put it in the same schedule as Fiorocet, which is pretty small beer.

No. The point of the military is national defense.

Have you read any newspapers lately?

 

[AmateurScientist]

Well, gosh a mickle! You'd better tell all those physicians who prescribe controlled substances that those substances are illegal. I'm just glad that when I had acute pancreatitis there was a felonious hospital that was willing to give me morphine, in spite of the fact that, as a Schedule II drug, it's considered more dangerous than anabolic steroids, which are Schedule III drugs! After my cholicesctomy, I even posessed Schedule II drugs at home! Yes, I mean oxycodone! Won't somebody think of the children?

The vast majority of anabolic steroids are prescribed by physicians. The vast majority who use them get the prescriptions from sports physicians. Perhaps you can explain to me how this is illegal.

There's no need to act like an a**hole about it. I wasn't sarcastic with you, nor did I insult you, nor was I an alarmist about it.

My point was that unlawful possession of them is in fact a crime. It's a felony.

Do you know what "controlled substance" means? It means controlled--as in, only those with a license by the DEA and a medical license in their state may prescribe them. Yeah, doctors. All medicines for which you must have a prescription from a licensed physician are controlled substances by definition. That doesn't mean the doctors, hospitals, and pharmacies who "possess" them are committing crimes. Please.

I didn't claim or imply that doctors cannot lawfully prescribe steroids for the treatment of certain medical conditions. Guess what? The indiscriminant prescribing of anabolic steroids to athletes has led to the arrest and prosecution of some physicians since the passage of the federal law, however. That largely former practice was the main impetus for the passage of the law in the first place. It's also led to the arrest and prosecution of athletes and gym owners who deal them from the back of the locker room.

Possession of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. That's what the article was about.

Did you read the federal statute I cited?

You may not like steroids. I don't. I think that anabolic steroids are a bad idea unless you're being treated for AIDS or lupus or something. Besides, if I had more metabolites of androgens in my blood stream, my eyebrows would probably fall off. Maybe the military has a special bug up it's butt about anabolic steroids. But still, even the Feds put it in the same schedule as Fiorocet, which is pretty small beer.

I didn't offer my opinion about whether or not anabolic substances should be legal. You might be surprised to hear what I have to say about them and my observations about them. That's for another discussion that I'm not going to have here.

What I do know is that the increased aggression so often seen in illegal steroid users (those doing so not under a physician's lawful supervision, which is most likely a majority of the athletes and soldiers using them in the US) is an adverse side effect. It's one that most commanders in the US military don't want to have to deal with, because it so often causes disciplinary problems. Disciplinary problems within the unit are among the chief concerns of any military commander.

Have you read any newspapers lately?

Have you had a stress pill lately? Man, just chill. I know what the purpose of the military is. I trained for years and then served more than three years as an officer in the US Army, part of it during wartime. I advised commanders as to when and how to discipline their soldiers. I court-martialed some of them. I don't need you to tell me what all that was about.

AS

 

[Luke T.]

Well, gosh a mickle! You'd better tell all those physicians who prescribe controlled substances that those substances are illegal. I'm just glad that when I had acute pancreatitis there was a felonious hospital that was willing to give me morphine, in spite of the fact that, as a Schedule II drug, it's considered more dangerous than anabolic steroids, which are Schedule III drugs! After my cholicesctomy, I even posessed Schedule II drugs at home! Yes, I mean oxycodone! Won't somebody think of the children?

The vast majority of anabolic steroids are prescribed by physicians. The vast majority who use them get the prescriptions from sports physicians. Perhaps you can explain to me how this is illegal.

You may not like steroids. I don't. I think that anabolic steroids are a bad idea unless you're being treated for AIDS or lupus or something. Besides, if I had more metabolites of androgens in my blood stream, my eyebrows would probably fall off. Maybe the military has a special bug up it's butt about anabolic steroids. But still, even the Feds put it in the same schedule as Fiorocet, which is pretty small beer.



Have you read any newspapers lately?

That was a very good impression of someone on steroids, epepke. I love satire.

 

[epepke]

There's no need to act like an a**hole about it. I wasn't sarcastic with you, nor did I insult you, nor was I an alarmist about it.

Well, I thought it was fairly obvious from my post you originally responded to that I was being snarky cynical in the first place. But then again, I thought it was obvious that Mark McGwire was up to his eyeballs in steroids. (I even said this, as a not-terribly-suble hint. Maybe it wasn't obvious enough. In case it isn't obvious, I'm being snarky and cynical. I can produce that in larger type or try to translate it into the language of your choice if that isn't enough.

Do you know what "controlled substance" means?

And you say I don't need to act like an a**hole, because you aren't sarcastic! No, not you. Surely. Why, it would never enter your mind to produce a sarcastic put-down.

I didn't claim or imply that doctors cannot lawfully prescribe steroids for the treatment of certain medical conditions.

So what happens when someone in the military gets a prescription from a non-military doctor and tests positive for it? I haven't heard anybody say anything about this. All I've heard is that if you test positive for steroids, you're out.

Possession of anabolic steroids without a valid prescription is illegal. That's what the article was about.

No. Half of the article was primarily about people getting prescriptions for steroids over the Internet. This is dodgy, but as far as I know, still legal. The other half was about redistribution, which is, of course, illegal.

Did you read the federal statute I cited?

Yes.

What I do know is that the increased aggression so often seen in illegal steroid users (those doing so not under a physician's lawful supervision, which is most likely a majority of the athletes and soldiers using them in the US) is an adverse side effect.

Ah, that's the problem then. The vast majority of people who use them do so legally. They may do so in violation of the Baseball Commission's rules or something, but they do it legally. The reasons for this are simple. It's easy to find a sports doctor who will prescribe steroids, especially over the Internet. Once one has a prescription, they're a lot cheaper than they are on the black market.

You seem to think that this is not true.

Have you had a stress pill lately?

It seems that you would consider that illegal.

 

[epepke]

That was a very good impression of someone on steroids, epepke. I love satire.

I'm glad someone here has a three-digit IQ.

 

[AmateurScientist]

I'm glad someone here has a three-digit IQ.

I'm sorry that I left my snarky-cynical detector at home today. Luke got it, but I didn't.

Forget what I wrote. It's not always easy to tell when people are being funny and when they're being dicks. As I haven't had much interaction with you, I failed to notice it was the former. I'm not the first to make the mistake in general (not with regard to you in particular), and I won't be the last. It's not my first time, either.

Oh well, back to shoveling ◊◊◊◊ for me.

AS

 

[AmateurScientist]

Oh yeah. Don't call me Shirley.

AS