US Spectre gunship attacks targets in Somolia

[gtc]

Most of them were likely Islamic Courts fighters. They may not have been "sought after" (in large part because most of them are essentially anonymous to us), but their deaths are still probably a good thing, both for us and for Somalia.

So you have no idea who these people were, but you're ready to say they were hostile to you because they were close to a location where the army believed that a suspected terrorist was? And that this is enough of a reason to kill them? Can you imagine other people using the same kind of reasoning and apply it to, say... Americans?

Merko, you are misrepresenting what Ziggurat said.

These are the keywords from Ziggurat's statement:

Most ... were likely ... may not have been ... in large part ... most ... are essentially ... probably

These are the keywords from your interpretation

...they were ... they were ... this is enough of a reason to kill them?

Notice how your interpretation uses words that are much more definite than the words he actually used.

 

[Merko]

Notice how your interpretation uses words that are much more definite than the words he actually used.

Fair enough, but I'm not very keen to take the US Navy's word for it that it is not the way I describe it. In fact, I put a greater weight at what I'm hearing from exile Somali sources, because although they are usually very biased, they do have sources on the ground, and they are also very much split up in different factions, making it possible to triangulate the facts.

 

[Cylinder]

Fair enough, but I'm not very keen to take the US Navy's word for it that it...

USAF - but don't let that get in the way of your reasoned assessment.

 

[Polaris]

Sounds like bin Ladin rhetorics.

I believe it is possible to apprehend three identified people without killing a significant number of 'collaterals'.

What you call 'collaterals' bin Laden calls 'preferred targets'. The only collaterals for bin Laden are Muslims who are killed in his targetting of civilians - because in his mind either they are good Muslims who will be rewarded in heaven or they are kafirs/infidels who deserve to die. In short, he has no compunction with killing everybody and letting Allah sort them out, quit literally.

 

[Merko]

USAF - but don't let that get in the way of your reasoned assessment.

Thanks for educating me - I mistakenly thought this was a rocket attack from a ship. Didn't know the word 'gunship' refers to an airplane.

 

[gtc]

Thanks for educating me - I mistakenly thought this was a rocket attack from a ship. Didn't know the word 'gunship' refers to an airplane.

In this case it does refer to an aeroplane but it can also refer to a helicopter.

 

[Huntster]

It appears entirely likely there were three anti-US terrorists in Somalia yesterday. Today, we can be quite sure, there are many more.

If you're right, and they blow up embassies like Fazul did, they'll be the next generation of AC-130 targets.

That's how it works, whether you like it or not.

 

[Huntster]

....Considering that Somalia is in a state of anarchy, I would actually not complain had the US sent in a targeted commando force to capture selected individuals.

There were plenty of whiners the last time the U.S. sent a "targeted commando force" into Somalia.

 

[Huntster]

I am glad that you are far more expert in matching means to ends than the professionals assigned the job.

I actually suspect that I am, along with most of the world's population.

And therein lies the roots, foundation, and hopelessness of the problem.

I believe it is possible to apprehend three identified people without killing a significant number of 'collaterals'.

Show me.

 

[Gurdur]

There were plenty of whiners the last time the U.S. sent a "targeted commando force" into Somalia.

Yes, mainly on the right. People like you. Whined away like nothing on Earth. Operation FUBARed in the usual style for the usual reasons, but I am sure you have some myth ready to had to explain it all. Or maybe you will appeal to What Would the WaffenSS Do? instead.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Thanks for educating me - I mistakenly thought this was a rocket attack from a ship. Didn't know the word 'gunship' refers to an airplane.

This from the expert.

I am glad that you are far more expert in matching means to ends than the professionals assigned the job.

I actually suspect that I am, along with most of the world's population.

I suspect that you have an overestimation of your competence in this matter.

But by all means, play on. Don't let me stop you throwing egg on your own face. I hear it's good for the complexion.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Operation FUBARed in the usual style for the usual reasons.

Yes, it was indeed a mission gone wrong. (That mission is worthy of another post, if people want to agrue about it.) What puzzles me is: why did you Godwin the Waffen SS deal, Gurdur?

DR

 

[Euromutt]

There were plenty of whiners the last time the U.S. sent a "targeted commando force" into Somalia.

Every man jack of them Republicans, based solely on the fact that there was a Democrat in the White House at the time. The GOP only overcame its aversion to body bags post-9/11.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Every man jack of them Republicans, based solely on the fact that there was a Democrat in the White House at the time. The GOP only overcame its aversion to body bags post-9/11.

Politics baby, don't you love it?

DR

 

[Ziggurat]

Thanks for educating me - I mistakenly thought this was a rocket attack from a ship. Didn't know the word 'gunship' refers to an airplane.

This is just too funny. I didn't expect it, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised at your ignorance of pretty basic military matters. Not only did you not know "gunship" doesn't refer to naval vessels, but you obviously had no idea what an AC-130 is either, and possibly still don't. That didn't stop you from criticising a military mission whose basic characteristics you completely misunderstood, though.

 

[SezMe]

Deleted.

 

[gtc]

What puzzles me is: why did you Godwin the Waffen SS deal, Gurdur?

I wondered that too. Isn't he German? I guess gratitude towards the US military is a little too much to expect but does he have to be such a stereotype of the ugly European?

 

[SezMe]

Looks like the raid was not as successful as originally reported. Linky.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Looks like the raid was not as successful as originally reported. Linky.

NAIROBI, Kenya - None of the top three suspected terrorists in Somalia were killed in a U.S. airstrike this week, but Somalis with close ties to al-Qaida were slain, a senior U.S. official in the region said Thursday.

A day earlier, a Somali official had said a U.S. intelligence report had referred to the death of Fazul Abdullah Mohammed — one of the three senior al-Qaida members believed responsible for bombing U.S. embassies in East Africa.

But U.S. and Ethiopian troops in southern Somalia were still pursuing the three, the U.S. official said Thursday on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record to the media.

Rhetorical question: Then why didn't said offical keep his effing mouth shut? Is this the old "official leak" crap?

Thanks for the follow up, Sez. As usual, first reports are often conflicting, and occasionally just plain wrong.

The bloody "news cycle" for fifty, Alex.

DR

 

[Garrette]

When training investigators (in my civilian life) I told them the first rule is this:

The first report is always wrong.

Then I would give them a hypothetical in which I (their boss) came up to them and told them about having witnessed a purse-snatching and they should go arrest so and so. Their responses always took me at my word at which point I would say:

Weren't you listening? The first report is ALWAYS wrong! And usually the second and the third.