US Gov't study - 'Rape rare in prisons'

[Antiquehunter]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060117/ap_on_re_us/prisoner_rape

Holy cow - what an offensive report.

Prison rape worldview doesn't interpret sexual pressure as coercion," he wrote. "Rather, sexual pressure ushers, guides or shepherds the process of sexual awakening."

What a bunch of hooey. What difference does it make if someone is a prisoner or not? If I apply undue pressure/coercion to someone, or threaten them unless they have sex with me, then I'm going to find myself in jail PDQ. To link someone feeling terrified when in jail and being coerced to perfom a sexual act with 'shepherding the process of sexual awakening' shows a complete disconnect with understanding of human sexuality.

Does he think someone could be made gay or straight by applying pressure into trying out a hitherto untried sexual act? Does he think gay people have all been coerced into trying something out before arriving at their final 'awakening'?

As a gay male (but never having been in prison) it sounds to me like this Fleisher dingbat needs to have HIS worldview on human sexuality 'awakened' - because he sounds like a complete dope.

Your tax dollars hard at work...

-AH.

 

[epepke]

Oh, yeah, completely offensive.

It's quite true that a large number of men who are heterosexual outside make a seamless transition to homosexual behavior when inside.

But this does not mean that prison rape is uncommon.

 

[LawnOven]

Are you sure?

I think the guy should be allowed to show his work before it is judged so critically. Maybe he's full of crap, but it would be unfair to judge so from a news article.

The most damning thing, I think, is the claim made that he didn't do a peer review. He can't be the first anthropologist, let alone social scientist to study prison rape. That seems sloppy.

To link someone feeling terrified when in jail and being coerced to perfom a sexual act with 'shepherding the process of sexual awakening' shows a complete disconnect with understanding of human sexuality.

To be fair human sexuality plays out differently in different times, places and under different circumstances. Prisons aren't exactly the ideal place for any sort of, what would be considered, normal by modern western society, development to take place, sexual or otherwise.

Does he think someone could be made gay or straight by applying pressure into trying out a hitherto untried sexual act? Does he think gay people have all been coerced into trying something out before arriving at their final 'awakening'?

Um well to tell you the truth it happens all the time. Boats, samurai, romans... There are many clear cases of places and times where the number of homosexual acts take place in much greater number than what is common today in western society.

What direction are you coming from? Biological determination? And what do you mean by gay? I mean is it the act, the desire, a combination of both? AND how do the people engadging in those acts define themselves.

It would be my opinion, that you would be selling 'culture' very, very short, if you didn't think it played a big role in how people define thier sexuality.

But this does not mean that prison rape is uncommon.

I am uncomfortable with his findings aswell, there should be much scrutiny. But if the practitioners don't think of it as rape, that would be something interesting to study further.

All I'm saying is that you should get so pissed off so soon. Give him a chance to make his case.


*edit* Also I will say, Anthropologists (esp. cultural anthropologists) have this way of using language in a way that is specific to themselves, and confusing, which is one of the things that seriously pisses me off about cultural anthropology. So, I mean, we can't know what the hell he's really talking about without reading his publication, a few sentences in a news article written by a journalist aren't going to do it.

Another *edit* How the hell did the Justice Dept. spend $939,233 on this in two years? That's one lucky anthropologist.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I especially love the prisons where the policy is not to issue condoms to the prisoners, because they are not supposed to be having sex. So the HIV rate is enormous in prison as a result, which, if one cares nothing for the lives of convicts, ought to upset one's sense of economy, since it costs a lot of taxpayer money.

 

[LawnOven]

I especially love the prisons where the policy is not to issue condoms to the prisoners, because they are not supposed to be having sex. So the HIV rate is enormous in prison as a result, which, if one cares nothing for the lives of convicts, ought to upset one's sense of economy, since it costs a lot of taxpayer money.

Haha, add that to the list of irrational policies and attitudes towards sex we have in american culture.

I think it's the Bible really; and those damn puritans.

 

[Antiquehunter]

What direction are you coming from? Biological determination? And what do you mean by gay? I mean is it the act, the desire, a combination of both? AND how do the people engadging in those acts define themselves.

It would be my opinion, that you would be selling 'culture' very, very short, if you didn't think it played a big role in how people define thier sexuality.

Fair enough, and valid points. FYI - I am undecided on the topic of genetic determination. After much reading, I feel that the most likely explanation is a combination of genetics and environmental factors. However, I do believe that we don't have the final answer yet.

Where I was really coming from with my quasi-rant was that it seemed like Fleisher was on a very slippery slope. To suggest that someone could be 'awakened' by a sexual encounter that was 'new' seems one step away from suggesting that gay people can be 'cured' through sex therapy, or conversely, straight people can be 'converted' through a similar process. Granted - history is full of examples where homosexual activity was commonplace and widely accepted.

To compare a sexual act involving coercion, threats etc... to a 'coming out' experience is offensive. Sure - the person who acquiesces to performing an act they were not inclined to initially consider MAY find out that they enjoyed the experience, and may lead them to a change of mind. However - this does not justify that the act was FORCED upon them.

One potential extension of this logic is that a 'rape' (heterosexual or homosexual) isn't 'rape' if the victim doesn't put up a fight. The relevant argument in my mind is the 'no means no' rule.

http://www.rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/faq/consentlaw01.html#

I agree with you as well that culture plays a role in one's sexual identity. But as an extension - just because a prison is a rather unique culture, suggesting that 'rape' is technically rare because people who are coerced or threatened into performing a specific sexual act are really just on a path to self-awareness is ludicrous.

An analogy - if I forced a devout Jew to consume pork, they may learn that pork is actually pretty tasty, and doesn't cause them any particular harm except for their own perceived spiritual damage. They may even choose to become a pork-eater of their own volition after the experience. But does that absolve me from having made an unfair exertion of power over their free will?

I am uncomfortable with his findings aswell, there should be much scrutiny. But if the practitioners don't think of it as rape, that would be something interesting to study further.

Interesting point - if the 'victim' doesn't feel violated after the act, should the courts pursue the matter? Would be very difficult to study. I'd suspect the cultural pressures/stigma of coming forward and reporting the act, combined with the ability of a prisoner to seek justice while they themselves are incarcerated would severely limit an unbiased sampling.

 

[Beerina]

Prison rape worldview doesn't interpret sexual pressure as coercion," he wrote. "Rather, sexual pressure ushers, guides or shepherds the process of sexual awakening."

"Prison murder worldview doesn't interpret slicing a throat as murder," he wrote. "Rather, slicing a throat ushers, guides or shepherds the process of monetary liberation."

 

[Mephisto]

I especially love the prisons where the policy is not to issue condoms to the prisoners, because they are not supposed to be having sex. So the HIV rate is enormous in prison as a result, which, if one cares nothing for the lives of convicts, ought to upset one's sense of economy, since it costs a lot of taxpayer money.

Ha! You beat me to it! I was going to cite the wacky assertion that prisoners don't need condoms because they're not supposed to be having sex and as we all know there are no drugs in prison, there is no alcohol in prison and there are no expedient weapons in prison.

There everything is fixed! All we need is a positive attitude.

 

[Mephisto]

"Prison murder worldview doesn't interpret slicing a throat as murder," he wrote. "Rather, slicing a throat ushers, guides or shepherds the process of monetary liberation."

HA! Several prisoners have been shepherded (or guided) through the process of spiritual liberation at the end of a shiv too!

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

Prisoners should not be able to even associate with eachother other than in the open yard or lunchroom with tons of guards keeping an eye on them.
They should all have seperate cells and be seperated at all other times to prevent these kinds of things.

 

[ysabella]

It's those sexy, low-cut orange jumpsuits. They're all asking for it.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Prisoners should not be able to even associate with eachother other than in the open yard or lunchroom with tons of guards keeping an eye on them.
They should all have seperate cells and be seperated at all other times to prevent these kinds of things.

That might run afoul of the "no cruel or unusual punishment", on psychological grounds. Can you imagine being in solitary for the rest of your life? People go crazy from less.

 

[Kerberos]

Prisoners should not be able to even associate with eachother other than in the open yard or lunchroom with tons of guards keeping an eye on them.
They should all have seperate cells and be seperated at all other times to prevent these kinds of things.

Yeah, that will do wonders for their ability to function normally after they get out.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

That might run afoul of the "no cruel or unusual punishment", on psychological grounds. Can you imagine being in solitary for the rest of your life? People go crazy from less.

They would have a few hours a day to socalize. Outdoors in the yard,In the lunch room.

2-3 hours a day to socalize is more than enough time. Heck....I know people who go weeks without even seeing another person.

 

[billydkid]

Haha, add that to the list of irrational policies and attitudes towards sex we have in american culture.

I think it's the Bible really; and those damn puritans.

Unfortunately, those sorts of irrational policies are applied everywhere you look.

 

[Leif Roar]

"Prison rape worldview doesn't interpret sexual pressure as coercion,"

I can't get that sentence to parse. It strikes me as entirely without meaning. Anyone?

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

"Prison rape worldview doesn't interpret sexual pressure as coercion,"

I can't get that sentence to parse. It strikes me as entirely without meaning. Anyone?

The prison rape worldview does not interpret sexual pressure as coercion...

What is the "prison rape worldview"?

How does the "prison rape worldview" interpret something?

 

[The Fool]

Can't we just tell them to stop it or they will go blind?

 

[Ian Osborne]

Why aren't HIV+ prisoners segregated from the rest of the prison population? It seems barmy to let them loose with the rest of the inmates. Anyone sued the US Government because they caught HIV in jail yet?

 

[Melendwyr]

That might run afoul of the "no cruel or unusual punishment", on psychological grounds. Can you imagine being in solitary for the rest of your life? People go crazy from less.

Locking someone up with a bunch of HIV-positive rapists just might be construed as cruel and unusual, too.