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US Citizen Otto Warmbier, returned from North Korea, has died

Darat said:
There is no reason for us to believe anything the NK have said about this sad incident since day one.

I am surprised that people still visit there as tourists - don't get me wrong I can understand the curiosity but we know it is probably the most brutal stable regime in the world so you have to know you are taking a huge risk to visit.

There is nothing like we would understand to be "due process" or a "rule of law" - you are entirely at the whims of the state's representatives.
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+1

North Korea is evil and are responsible for this but going to NK is a bit like a Jew booking a vacation in Nazi Germany.
 
dudalb said:
The kid was dumb,but in the end the North Korean Regime was the guilty party, and that people are trying to let Dear Leader off the hook for this is a little disturbing.
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And the assassinating his family wasn't a hint as to his character?

Up next vacationing in ISIS controlled territory.
 
Cain said:
North Korea just murdered an American citizen. President Trump should not -- and will not -- let this stand. We must go to war ASAP.
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Yea that is the kind of thing only US cops should do.

Here killing people in your jails can get you big federal appointments. See Sheriff Clarke.
 
NoahFence said:
Bomb Pyongyang. Enough is enough.
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even a perfect de-capitation strike, including destroying all nuclear launch-capabilities and most of the artillery would leave the world to feed 25 million of mostly hostile North Koreas. Plenty of them would flee to the South, possibly triggering decades of crisis and violence.

There is simply no scenario that doesn't end in millions dying one way or another.
 
More on the supposed used car deal

"In a tearful statement made before his trial, Warmbier told a gathering of reporters in Pyongyang he was offered a used car worth $10,000 if he could get a propaganda banner and was also told that if he was detained and didn't return, $200,000 would be paid to his mother in the form of a charitable donation. Warmbier said he accepted the offer because his family was 'suffering from very severe financial difficulties.'" link

Oh, brother.
 
Vixen said:
- refrained from nicking a road sign with 'Abbey Road' or 'Penny Lane', if given the opportunity
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My first gf went to university in Liverpool and her student digs were around the corner from Penny Lane.

They stopped using actual signs years ago as they were stolen almost as quickly as they were installed. They are now painted onto the wall.

[/derail]
 
Vixen said:
The sad news on the US student, Otto Warmbier, returned home to his family, is that he has died. He was jailed in North Korea for a prank and sent back to the USA in a coma, after 15 months of his sentence, with brain trauma.
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An expensive price to pay for lacking common sense. People seem to throw it out of the window whenever they go on holiday, regardless of whether it's a western capitalist tourist trap, let alone and evil autocratic dictatorship. People do stuff that they wouldn't dream of doing at home, seemingly lulled into some sense that somehow rules and laws don't apply to them, and if they get into "trouble" then their own government will magically wave a wand, make the "trouble" go away, and whisk them home to a hero's welcome.

All that we can hope for is that this is not the spark for the War of Warmbier's Brain.
 
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the onus is on NK to make a case

Information Analyst said:
An expensive price to pay for lacking common sense. People seem to throw it out of the window whenever they go on holiday, regardless of whether it's a western capitalist tourist trap, let alone and evil autocratic dictatorship. People do stuff that they wouldn't dream of doing at home, seemingly lulled into some sense that somehow rules and laws don't apply to them, and if they get into "trouble" then their own government will magically wave a wand, make the "trouble" go away, and whisk them home to a hero's welcome.

All that we can hope for is that this is not the spark for the War of Warmbier's Brain.
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None of the evidence (a blurry video; a confession with more tears than logic) that purports to indicate that he took the banner is credible. That doesn't prove he did not take the banner, only that the story told by NK is unsupported.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
The fact that there was no wakeup call for him and his roommate from the hotel that morning is odd. IIRC this was in the WaPo story.

According to his confession, an acquaintance from his church was supposed to give Warmbier a car worth $10,000 for the banner. Has this person ever corroborated Warmbier's story? How did this person know that propaganda banners existed? How could Warmbier have read a banner and known it was a propaganda banner and not the directions to the men's room? How did Warmbier get access to a restricted area? How did Warmbier keep the banner hidden from his roommate? I can't make his confession work.
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Yeah, sure. The person who prompted Warmbier to his folly must be raring to admit to it! As to propaganda banners, they're often visit in news footage, and are usually heavy on military and/or communist symbolism, rather than text. They're not hard to spot.
 
Chris_Halkides said:
None of the evidence (a blurry video; a confession with more tears than logic) that purports to indicate that he took the banner is credible. That doesn't prove he did not take the banner, only that the story told by NK is unsupported.
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Is there really any level of evidence that would be convincing? That kind of video combined with statements is enough all the time to justify the police killing people.
 
"Let's arm ourselves strongly with Kim Jong-il patriotism"

Information Analyst said:
Yeah, sure. The person who prompted Warmbier to his folly must be raring to admit to it! As to propaganda banners, they're often visit in news footage, and are usually heavy on military and/or communist symbolism, rather than text. They're not hard to spot.
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This banner was entirely text. It is said to mean, "Let's arm ourselves strongly with Kim Jong-il patriotism." Could Mr. Warmbier read Korean? How did he get into a restricted area? How would he know that a banner was there? He was not a member of the church, a member of which is alleged to have encouraged him, according to this CNN article. BTW, posters with paintings and text can be purchased in a department store, as a commenter here has documented.
 
Vixen said:
Everybody is allowed to make a mistake. So he did something stupid.

A callow youth aged 22 takes a souvenir of a North Korea banner and is caught.

You don't think 15 years hard labour and being reduced to a brain-damage coma, caused by respiratory trauma, within a month of the sentence before being sent home near death's door 15 months later, is cruel and unusual punishment?
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What's cruel and unusual in the World is pretty much kid-glove treatment in NK.

If you offered me sole ownership of Apple I wouldn't set foot in NK.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
even a perfect de-capitation strike, including destroying all nuclear launch-capabilities and most of the artillery would leave the world to feed 25 million of mostly hostile North Koreas. Plenty of them would flee to the South, possibly triggering decades of crisis and violence.

There is simply no scenario that doesn't end in millions dying one way or another.
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So then they act with impunity. They really are more powerful than America.
 
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