Pramila Jayapal: Are you aware of Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention that prohibits collective punishment? It's a yes or no question.
Caleb Orr: The collective punishment is being imposed by the Cuba regime.
Pramila Jayapal: So do you know what is the definition of collective punishment? Do you know? In the Geneva Convention.
Caleb Orr: The Cuban regime is the one that is punishing ...
Pramila Jayapal: What is the definition? Obviously, you don't know, so let me tell you what it is: "No protected person may be punished for an offense he or she has not personally committed."
And Mr. Orr, that is exactly what this embargo is intended to be. It's a form of collective punishment. Ahead of the United States placing its embargo on Cuba in 1962, a classified State Department memo stated that the goals of broad-based U.S. sanctions should be to, quote, "deny money and supplies to Cuba, to decrease monetary and real wages, and bring about hunger, desperation and overthrow of the government."
We are 60 years later now, and none of the goals that you are talking about have been realized. What has been realized is the Cuban people have been essentially destroyed. Infant mortality up, no food, no water, no medical supplies. Since the imposition of the embargo on Cuba, has Cuba held fully democratic elections?
Caleb Orr: The Cuban people have been deprived the access to democracy.
Pramila Jayapal: So the answer is no. Have they ceased the detention of political prisoners? The answer is no. So, Mr. Orr, maybe it is time for the United States to think about another way of addressing the policy goals that we have, other than punishing the entire Cuban people.
That is what I saw. I don't know if you have been there recently. I was there just a few months ago. I could not believe what I saw. And I've got to tell you, Mr. Orr, the American people are incredibly generous. To create that kind of collective punishment on a nation of 9 million people that is just 90 mile south of the border, I think Americans would be horrified. I think they would be absolutely horrified that young, premature babies in maternity hospitals cannot get an incubator, can't get a ventilator. Doctors and nurses are holdning up cell phones and using the light of their cell phones as they perform major surgeries.
This is not the way to go about diplomacy. There should be a negotiated agreement between the United States and the Cuban government. And I have met with dissidents. I have met with the president. I have met with people across the political spectrum. What everyone agrees on is that the collective of the Cuban people is wrong, and the United States should lift the embargo, allow fuel to get to Cuba, and we should make sure that we actually invest in a relationship that helps the American people.