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Katie Halper: I want you to respond to this claim about doctors as slaves. Yeah. So this is from the Victims of Communism Foundation, and it says "A Step Toward Justice with Cuba's Medical Slavery Model. And
this is about how doctors, I don't know, are being paid. They started to pay them. But the point is uh what is this medical slavery model? I mean,
did the doctors you met talk about their labor as if they were being treated like slaves or?
Uriel Ramirez: No. Uh, I just want to tell everybody, you know, that what Cubans are built on solidarity. So, uh, so basically whatever they do, they do it out of their heart. When I speak to these individuals that go out and do these services in other countries, they want to do it. They go out there and they actually get paid pretty good money because they come back and they buy their cars, they buy their own houses.
They're able to expand economically by going out and then coming back. It's quite shocking to see that alot of people think it's slavery, because these doctors, they love what they do and they do it, they'll do it in a heartbeat, you know. They go to, when they go to Brazil, they go to Venezuela, they go to ... I've met physicians that go to Congo, they go to all parts of Asia, and then they come back and they ... I was able to
learn from these physicians, their experiences, and what they did, you know. And it just brought a more rich, you know, education to me and to my colleagues that I had in Cuba, you know.
Katie Halper: Yeah. Right. And what about you, Ed? Have you discovered um a a slave trade? An undercover slave trade?
Ed Augustin: Still looking. I've got um I've got a slightly different emphasis on it um to Yuriel. I do agree with him that empathy and solidarity and and the duty of care to patients, whether they're Cuban or people abroad, is a big part of the Cuban ethos. That's certainly true. It's certainly taught. Where I part company a bit is that in my experience, most of the doctors these days that work abroad do it because they want to earn more money. Yeah sure, they'd love to travel. Sure, it's a rite of passage. Sure. They're doctors, right? Presumably most of them believe in the hippocratic oath. But overwhelmingly, what's come back to me is that this is a way that we're going to be able to I don't know, buy an oven or get an air conditioner or or get a TV that's not from the 1980s. This is what I've been, what I've come across.
So yeah, um again, we've talked about not sugar coating it, and I think it's important not to do that, right? Because talking about Cuba, and we're all on the left and there's lots of kind of like romantic myths and stuff that shouldn't be allowed to stand. There is, on the one hand... The notion that they're slaves is crazy, or better put, factually false, because I happen to know that often Cuban doctors bribe others, administrators, there's a lot of bribery in Cuba, to jump the queue. So what slave would want to pay to be able to to be a slave? But thenotion that they're slaves or the notion that it's human trafficking is propaganda.