US apologises for Guatemala STD study

[E.J.Armstrong]

'.. The US government on Friday apologised for a medical study that deliberately infected hundreds of mentally ill patients and prisoners in Guatemala with sexually transmitted infections just after the second world war. ...'

From http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/fb5a2774-cd73-11df-9c82-00144feab49a.html

Well, that's all right then. Another Clinton apologising for activities of a sexual nature.

 

[Alareth]

just after the second world war.

So you are reduced to criticizing the current US government by using something that happened 60 years ago and no one currently in power was involved with?

Really?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

So you are reduced to criticizing the current US government by using something that happened 60 years ago and no one currently in power was involved with?

Really?

Oh please already. It seems that the lady doth protest too much.

Let it henceforth be known that no matter what the mighty USA does - no matter what or where it is, it cannot be the subject of a joke. Particularly one that concerns sex and a Clinton. That is after all lese majeste and we simply will not have it, because it makes us all upset.

Please all sign this document to show you agree or we will scweam and scweam until we are sick.

 

[Pardalis]

Let it henceforth be known that no matter what the mighty USA does -

Did.

And now they're doing the right thing.

 

[Aepervius]

Well Alareth, people do it for other countries, all the time. Like the german for example. They still get finger pointed at them all the time. Neo nazi movement in the US ? Nobody rise an eyebrow, neo nazi movement in germany ? Everybody discuss the resurgence of nazism in germany and the implication.

That said, all it shows is that the USA is not the bastion of purity it pretends to be. It is about as gray as any other country can be. But we already knew that, we even already knew The USA was not beyond letting their own people die for a study (not giving medication to some people having syphilys to see the effect).

So really, there is no new information.

 

[Aepervius]

Did.

And now they're doing the right thing.

Are they ? All we can say is that we have no evidence that they are doing similar stuff today. And seeing how the Irak invasion was handled and the obvious propaganda and misuse of the terrorist fear today is... I would not bet a cent either for or against this still happenning.

The bottom line is, the USA governement will do what's good for the USA governement, the american people, their friend, the rest of the world, in that order. Similarly to a corporation when you put a lot of people in command, you remove part of the responsibility from them. And such things as with the OP do happen.

Heck, my own country bombed a ship of activist (and killed a journalist) for political reason. The rainbow warrior. I am not blinding myself, if they see an advantage to it, and can get away with it, any country would do the same.

 

[Alareth]

Well Alareth, people do it for other countries, all the time. Like the german for example. They still get finger pointed at them all the time. Neo nazi movement in the US ? Nobody rise an eyebrow, neo nazi movement in germany ? Everybody discuss the resurgence of nazism in germany and the implication.

That said, all it shows is that the USA is not the bastion of purity it pretends to be. It is about as gray as any other country can be. But we already knew that, we even already knew The USA was not beyond letting their own people die for a study (not giving medication to some people having syphilys to see the effect).

So really, there is no new information.

You won't find any record of me saying the US is immune to criticism or that it's perfect. There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't made mistakes, kept nasty secrets or committed acts like the one in the OP.

My response was more directed at E.J.'s tendency to grab at anything he can find, no matter how flimsy, to attack the US. I found this one rather a pathetic attempt.

 

[Pardalis]

Are they ? All we can say is that we have no evidence that they are doing similar stuff today.

And we have no evidence that you haven't stopped beating your wife.

And seeing how the Irak invasion

Ah, the old argumentum ad Iraqum. Works everytime.

The bottom line is, the USA governement will do what's good for the USA governement,

No kidding? Well that settles it then.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Did.

And now they're doing the right thing.

Yes they are.

 

[Cain]

Lies. The Greatest Generation would never do such a thing. But if they did, I'm sure they had a good reason.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

You won't find any record of me saying the US is immune to criticism or that it's perfect. There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't made mistakes, kept nasty secrets or committed acts like the one in the OP.

My response was more directed at E.J.'s tendency to grab at anything he can find, no matter how flimsy, to attack the US. I found this one rather a pathetic attempt.

Can the USA really not withstand a joke? It seems you need to defend it from laughter.

If you want to make allegations about me please be big enough to actually quote some of my words. Any of them you like. They are all on the site for you to choose from. Even just one or two would be a start. I suspect you won't. If you won't then your 'case' is nothing but demonisation.

 

[Aepervius]

You won't find any record of me saying the US is immune to criticism or that it's perfect. There isn't a country on Earth that hasn't made mistakes, kept nasty secrets or committed acts like the one in the OP.

My response was more directed at E.J.'s tendency to grab at anything he can find, no matter how flimsy, to attack the US. I found this one rather a pathetic attempt.

OH I agree on that. I think EJ is somehow poisonning the discussion by grabing at all straw possible. Then people just point at the weak argument , and dismiss him. While the background problem stays.

It is contra productive. But I can understand why both side (EJ and the one dismissing do it).

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Lies. The Greatest Generation would never do such a thing. But if they did, I'm sure they had a good reason.

I admire your irony.

 

[Aepervius]

And we have no evidence that you haven't stopped beating your wife.

Ah, the old argumentum ad Iraqum. Works everytime.

No kidding? Well that settles it then.

Yep. Always better than the argumentation I very often see on this board. Which is the argumentation as "the USA do all good, Israel do all good, everybody critizing them are dimwit anti american and anti semite, no better than comie".

 

[quixotecoyote]

Yep. Always better than the argumentation I very often see on this board. Which is the argumentation as "the USA do all good, Israel do all good, everybody critizing them are dimwit anti american and anti semite, no better than comie".

Just goes to show we see what we want to see.

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

OH I agree on that. I think EJ is somehow poisonning the discussion by grabing at all straw possible. Then people just point at the weak argument , and dismiss him. While the background problem stays.

It is contra productive. But I can understand why both side (EJ and the one dismissing do it).

If your claims about me had any merit you would have no problem finding some words of mine to quote. I notice that you failed to quote any. I therefore assume that your intention is simple demonisation.

Care to support your claims?

 

[E.J.Armstrong]

Just goes to show we see what we want to see.

Thanks for proving the point.

 

[Aepervius]

Just goes to show we see what we want to see.

Yep. I am hit by that problem very often. I recognize it. I am a bad skeptic (or at least not as good as I wish I was). My knowledge is limited, I am more a jack of the trade than a specialist. I wish I would be better but I am not. Like everybody there are some zone where my skepticism fail. That used to be mostly politic, and it certainly still is partially the case, although I go often into the "cynical" mode.

That said some people here on this board, when it come to such debate as Gaza/Israel, are quite clearly entrenched in their position, and will not budge no matter what. And see the world as black and white. Is it the majority ? Nope. But they are on both side very vocal. I won't pretend my opinion on the Israel conflict are more valid than some other, but they certainly seem much more measured. Who knows maybe I am lying to myself on that too.

IMHO the debate on this board on that problem is so fragile and explosive it ain't much worth trying. But hey, one can try.

 

[ZirconBlue]

Yes they are.

 

[Pardalis]

IMHO the debate on this board on that problem is so fragile and explosive it ain't much worth trying. But hey, one can try.

You can always try, but it would be off topic.

And so is Iraq.