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Universal Heath Care - Not Universal

boyntonstu

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Amish families exempt from insurance mandate

HEALTH REFORM: People with religious objections can opt out

WASHINGTON — Federal health care reform will require most Northern New Yorkers — but not all, it turns out — to carry health insurance or risk a fine.
Hundreds of Amish families in the region are likely to be free from that requirement.
The Amish, as well as some other religious sects, are covered by a "religious conscience" exemption, which allows people with religious objections to insurance to opt out of the mandate. It is in both the House and Senate versions of the bill, making its appearance in the final version routine unless there are last-minute objection…..

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20100109/NEWS02/301099964

What other group of Americans is exempt from belongin and paying into the system?
 
It offends me people can use religion to get out of something you shouldn't be forced into to begin with. :rolleyes:



I doubt that's what you're getting at, though. I have similar issues with "Native Americans" having a different set of rules that apply than to me. In other words, because of genetics, certain European-derived people can extend a claw of control over me.
 
Upchurch said:
Interestingly (and perhaps this is off topic), the Amish have an excellent insurance program and it is far more socialist than anything being proposed for the rest of us.
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They do?

Do you think that the system that they use would actually have counted as "insurance" under reforms?
 
The Amish around here got one county to actually opt out of NYS building inspection! This is so they could continue to produce unsafe, and environmentally hazardous septic systems.

They also have yearly sales to pay for their massive medical debt. I doubt they have any type of well funded insurance.

Of course 'the Amish' aren't a single group, so ymmv.
 
And of course this religious exemption is nothing new since it already exists under Medicare. There is, I believe, what they call a "Social Security carve out" for the Amish.

boyntonstu said:
What other group of Americans is exempt from belongin and paying into the system?
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Just to make sure, you're talking about the individual mandate proposed in the healthcare reform bill(s), right? "Universal" isn't an accurate term since exceptions exist in both the version passed by the House and the Senate. There's the religious exemption noted here, and also a financial hardship exemption in both.

BTW, here's a nifty side by side comparison of key features of the two bills:

http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/health_care/HScomparison.pdf

ETA: When people use the term "Universal Health Care" it usually refers to making healthcare accessible to as near to everyone as possible. The CBO estimates of both plans show that either of them would get us pretty close (by allowing millions more people access).
 
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Wildy said:
They do?
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Yep. They are collectively "self-insured". If one of them needs money for something (an operation, medicine, what-have-you), the rest of the community chips in. By my understanding, "the rest of the community" could reach as far as Amish from around the country, if that's what it takes to fill the need.

Wildy said:
Do you think that the system that they use would actually have counted as "insurance" under reforms?
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No idea.

parky76 said:
do Amish people use our regular ERs?
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You betcha. They don't let religious beliefs get in the way of good medical care. My dad has Amish friends who've gone to the Mayo Clinic.

They don't screw around.
 
Upchurch said:
Yep. They are collectively "self-insured". If one of them needs money for something (an operation, medicine, what-have-you), the rest of the community chips in. By my understanding, "the rest of the community" could reach as far as Amish from around the country, if that's what it takes to fill the need.
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I didn't know this. So the Amish that participate in such a self-insurance program, they don't even need an exemption on religious grounds. It seems that they already satisfy the individual mandate.
 
Oh, the horror. Amish people won't be required to participate. What a truly awful health plan.
 
JoeTheJuggler said:
I didn't know this. So the Amish that participate in such a self-insurance program, they don't even need an exemption on religious grounds. It seems that they already satisfy the individual mandate.
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Could very well be. I don't know enough details about either the Amish program nor the mandate to know how they do or do not fit together.
 
Upchurch said:
So I finally had a chance to read the OP article. I'm not sure I understand the objection (or rather, the objection in this case). We have a long history of religious exemptions. Taxes and the draft, for example. And while I don't necessarily agree with those exemptions, how is this any different than those other cases?
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Because he needs to invent a new bogus argument?
 
**** those 30 million people, can't tolerate exemptions for a couple hundred thousand Amish.
 
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