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Unintelligent design

Dave Rogers said:
The classic example of the latter is the difference between human and cephalopod eyes; simply routing the nerve connections round the back of the retina in the latter is not only obviously superior but also exists in reality, so one can't realistically come up with an excuse for the blind spot in humans, where the optic nerve is routed through the retina, in claiming intelligent design.
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Oh yeah they can. They'll tell you that it's there for a reason, but that that reason is, of course, mysterious. It's a poor excuse, but it convinces a lot of people.
 
Dave Rogers said:
A comment in the Intelligent Design thread has started me thinking.



It seems to me that there are many instances where the design of the human body is obviously - not to put too fine a point on it - downright wrong. There are of course different trade-offs in any design, so it's not really a valid criticism to point out that, say, humans are much slower than cheetahs, because we're optimised for a different set of parameters. However, there are obvious instances where either the design of the body is clearly not thought out, or where a superior design element exists in nature. The classic example of the latter is the difference between human and cephalopod eyes; simply routing the nerve connections round the back of the retina in the latter is not only obviously superior but also exists in reality, so one can't realistically come up with an excuse for the blind spot in humans, where the optic nerve is routed through the retina, in claiming intelligent design.

An example of the former, it seems to me, may be the urinary tract. There are two completely separate excretory systems in mammals; the alimentary canal extracts nutrition and water from food and drink, and the kidneys take up some of the water ingested to remove waste products from the blood. The urinary system wastes water; not a problem for an organism living in water, but quite an inconvenience for one living on land, because we're reliant on sufficient water to keep hydrated and to maintain kidney function. If the urinary tract were routed into the alimentary canal, which is already set up to separate waste from water, wouldn't it be a more efficient design, and quite a realisable one?

A couple of questions, then:

From someone whose knowledge of biology is better than mine (I'm a physicist so I admit I don't value understand biologists biology ;)), does that sound like a reasonable criticism?

And:

What other good examples are there of obviously poor design (rather than questionable trade-off choices) in biology?

Dave
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I think the -RH factor in blood where a mother cam bear a child with an incompatible blood type is a clear one
 
I would contend that the whole initial premise that nobody has come up with a better design, therefore, etc. ...is a sham to begin with. Of course any consideration of such a thing is predicated on our assumption that a better design would be to make a better human being. That's like arguing about transportation issues by comparing automotive tail fins. It suggests a severely compromised imagination.

A truly intelligent designer would not be under any constraint or obligation to produce anything even remotely resembling what exists today. If, as religious sorts seem to believe, the point of life is spiritual, an intelligent designer could have designed us any number of ways we cannot even imagine, to be spiritually wonderful without the other things that make life interesting for us infidels. Is there any inevitable religions reason we are not built like quartz crystals or elephants or oak trees or something we never imagined?
 
I think our planet is an example of crapy design.

Why do we have a molten core and tectonic plates, that move against each other causing earthquakes? In addition to this our spinning is slowing down, due to the friction of all that molten stuff, being pulled around by gravitational pulls from the Sun and Moon. I would have made our planet out of solid rock.
 
I encountered a design flaw several days ago. The right-side temporal mandibular joint has begun to hurt when I chew. That joint is just forward of the ear canal.

If the condition continues, surgery might be necessary. While it is not clear to me how an orthopedic surgeon would get into the joint, one way would be through the canal. I know enough about the whole auditory system to think that this is Not A Good Idea.



(And just to add insult to real injury, the dentist charged me $95 to feel the joint as I moved my jaw, and say, "yep, that's a click in there." And wants me to get a night guard for a mere $600.)
 
In Richard Dawkins' book The Greatest Show on Earth, Chapter 11 History Written All Over Us is pretty much a treatise on this thread's topic. He mentions the recurrent laryngeal nerve, the blind spot, and other things mentioned in this thread. It's an interesting chapter in a good book.
 
These units are a primitive structure ... Insufficient safe guards built in ... Breakdowns can occur from many causes. ... Self-maintenance systems
 are of low reliability ...

It serve as me as it is, Nomad. ... Repair it.!
 
bruto said:
A truly intelligent designer would not be under any constraint or obligation to produce anything even remotely resembling what exists today. If, as religious sorts seem to believe, the point of life is spiritual, an intelligent designer could have designed us any number of ways we cannot even imagine, to be spiritually wonderful without the other things that make life interesting for us infidels. Is there any inevitable religions reason we are not built like quartz crystals or elephants or oak trees or something we never imagined?
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Well, the big guy created man from his own image. I have to assume he has the same flaws and maybe views his creation as a sort of "warts and all" personal expression.
 
gerdbonk said:
Well, the big guy created man from his own image. I have to assume he has the same flaws and maybe views his creation as a sort of "warts and all" personal expression.
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Yes I have always thought this an interesting question. Does God have sexual apparatus for example? If so what does he use it for - apart from banging Mary 2000 years ago.
 
Thor 2 said:
I think our planet is an example of crapy design.

Why do we have a molten core and tectonic plates, that move against each other causing earthquakes? In addition to this our spinning is slowing down, due to the friction of all that molten stuff, being pulled around by gravitational pulls from the Sun and Moon. I would have made our planet out of solid rock.
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We'd have had to manage without most of our useful metals, then, and without most of our fertile soil. Whether we'd have evolved at all is arguable, as the early earth atmosphere would have been very different without vulcanism. Maybe the dinosaurs would have survived the meteor impact if the Decclan Flats event hadn't been happening beforehand. And with erosion, but only much reduced new land formation, the earth would have looked very different indeed, getting flatter and flatter.
 
MikeG said:
We'd have had to manage without most of our useful metals, then, and without most of our fertile soil. Whether we'd have evolved at all is arguable, as the early earth atmosphere would have been very different without vulcanism. Maybe the dinosaurs would have survived the meteor impact if the Decclan Flats event hadn't been happening beforehand. And with erosion, but only much reduced new land formation, the earth would have looked very different indeed, getting flatter and flatter.
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...and getting fully submerged by the ocean.
 
Re: testicles and body temperature and elephants: do elephants maintain a lower temp? Then I suggest out higher temp is a reasonable trade-off to enable something significant in our habits. I have no idea what that is, but higher body temperature means higher base power requirement. Would be energetically wasteful if we didn't really need 36.5 degrees C and heavily selected against.
 
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