Unfulfilled Bible Prophecies

[This Guy]

I was under the impression that the "fulfilled prophecies" had to do with OT prophecies being fulfilled in some OT and NT events.

Beyond that, not interested in wrangling over prohpecy, given that Jesus did point out that when He comes back, it will be like a thief in the night, or if you'd prefer that in the vernacular, it will be an arrival that catches people by surprise.

If you don't think Jesus likes to pull a "gotcha" now and again, see Luke 24:

I have always imagined that just before He vanished, He winked at Cleopas (gotcha!) but the Scriptures do not tell it that way.

DR

He was tricksy!

Generally when people think of Biblical prophecy the Old Testament comes to mind. Jesus made more than a couple prophecies though, and since generally it is Christians that get defensive about the Bible, I thought the New Testament would be a better place to start. If the thread last very long, I'll be going to the OT in a few more prophecies

 

[Madalch]

It, the Time line depends on how far threescore furlongs is. How long of a journey? No one really sees him till later, how much later?

A furlong, IIRC, is an eighth of a mile. A score is twenty. Threescore furlongs is thus 60/8 miles, or seven and a half miles. If these are Roman miles, English miles, or the more generic thousand paces, that's anybody's guess.

He walks out of the grave defeats death, and carried up to heaven.
So later he assends to the Father, carried up to heaven?

You're saying he went up tail first?

 

[edge]

Don't play stupid.

 

[joobz]

No, looks like he has blocked all pms. He wouldn't put me on ignore, we had a few friendly pms a while back.
Maybe he was getting some abusive stuff.

I certainly hope that is not the case.

 

[joobz]

This would be an excellent Moderated thread. If you could get Radrook to join, it would be highly interesting. It would also eliminate the sneak attack and keep things rather civil.

While I think This guy would be great for this moderated debate, and is extremely civil maybe Radrook would be more amendable to this idea if he would be willing to select the other debater.

 

[Ashles]

One unfilfilled bible prophecy appears to be regarding the meek who do not, at this current point, appear to have yet inherited the earth.

Unless they did inherit it, but then the will was subsequently strongly contested and overturned by the aggressive.

 

[HghrSymmetry]

double post

 

[HghrSymmetry]

As a theist I'm just wondering when it gets to be our turn to give the atheist his multiple-wedgie from behind

Since theists have failed for the past few millenia to produce any evidence for their position...well, let's just say your turn doesn't look forthcoming.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

One unfilfilled bible prophecy appears to be regarding the meek who do not, at this current point, appear to have yet inherited the earth.

Unless they did inherit it, but then the will was subsequently strongly contested and overturned by the aggressive.

LOL!

You bad.

My favorite of that genre: The meek will inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars.

(I also think that God would love a good joke.)

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

In. Re. My Thursday crucifixion idea:

Nope. No (apparent) way.

From the Interactive Jewish Calendar at HebCal.com and the Intereactive Perpetual Jewish Calendar at JewishPeople.com, I have extracted the following table:

Gregorian Year | Day | Date of Erev Pesach/Passover
===========|=====|======================
0015 | Fri | 20 Mar
0016 | Fri | 8 Apr
0017 | Wed | 29 Mar
0018 | Sat | 17 Mar
0019 | Fri | 5 Apr
0020 | Wed | 25 Mar
0021 | Mon | 12 Apr
0022 | Sat | 2 Apr
0023 | Wed | 22 Mar
0024 | Wed | 10 Apr
0025 | Mon | 31 Mar
0026 | Fri | 20 Mar
0027 | Wed | 7 Apr
0028 | Mon | 27 Mar
0029 | Sat | 14 Apr
0030 | Wed | 3 Apr
0031 | Mon | 24 Mar
0032 | Mon | 12 Apr
0033 | Fri | 1 Apr
0034 | Mon | 20 Mar
0035 | Mon | 9 Apr
0036 | Fri | 28 Mar
0037 | Wed | 18 Mar
0038 | Mon | 5 Apr
0039 | Fri | 25 Mar
0040 | Fri | 13 Apr
0041 | Mon | 1 Apr
0042 | Sat | 22 Mar
0043 | Fri | 10 Apr
0044 | Wed | 30 Mar
0045 | Sat | 18 Mar
0046 | Fri | 6 Apr
0047 | Wed | 27 Mar
0048 | Mon | 13 Apr
0049 | Sat | 3 Apr
0050 | Wed | 23 Mar

There were EXACTLY ZERO occurrences on which the Passover fell on a Thursday during the entire reasonable time for the crucifixion to have happened!

Another perfectly good theory shot full of holes by something as trivial as facts!

Lots of Wednesdays and Fridays, but no Thursdays.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Don't play stupid.

Don't be stupid.

Do we have a deal?

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

(I also think that God would love a good joke.)

Of course He does, He created us. I don't think He's stopped laughing since, save to now and again let loose with a smasing of Sodom here and a Gamorrah there, or a flood or a side bet on Job (good fun by itself) and so on.

(See also the Chesterton in my sig. )

DR

 

[I Ratant]

Gaggle, does your day positioning account for the switch between calendars in
1582 when the current day number was pushed forward 10 days to align the calendar with the seasons?
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/GregorianCalendar.html

 

[This Guy]

Don't play stupid.

I'm not sure if this was meant for the post previous to it, or is aimed at me.

If it is aimed at me I would just like to point out that I am trying to understand exactly what you are trying to say in your post, but I am having a hard time doing so. If that makes me appear stupid, perhaps I am. But your post on the subject so far have been a little confusing to me.

My understanding so far is that you seem to think Jesus' appearance to the Apostles after the resurrection has some bearing on how long he was buried, and that you also consider the fact that he was wrong about the time he would be buried to be trivial, and unimportant.

My view is that when or where he appeared after the resurrection has no bearing on how long he was buried. The fact is that all Gospel accounts indicate he was buried Friday around sunset and at around sunrise Sunday was no longer in the tomb. Tomorrow the sun will rise in Jerusalem at 6:07 AM, and set at 7:10 PM. I've always imagined 0600 and 1800 as the sunrise and sunset times, just to get a better mental picture of the time line. Looks like that was off by about an hour, give or take a little. But I still think it gives a good approximation of the times involved.

As for the importance of Jesus being right or wrong about the three days and three nights, well, if he couldn't get that right, what would make you believe he got anything else right? If that statement was untrue, why would anyone believe any of his other statements and predictions? And when we have finished the burial time question, we will look at some of those other predictions and see how well he did on those.

My opinion is that this is a mistake. Either the writer(s) of these events misquoted Jesus, or misrepresented what actually happened, or Jesus was simply wrong. Either way it bodes ill for the reliability of the Bible as being the Inspired word of God.

If my understanding of what you are saying is wrong, PLEASE correct me. I do not want to put words in your mouth, or misrepresent what you are saying. I'm just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying.

 

[This Guy]

Just a quick note to acknowledge some of the other post before I head out to work.

Thanks Gagglenash for that information. I ran across something that indicated the same thing, but with not nearly the same amount of information as your sources.

I have no problem with moderation of the thread. I had thought at one time about suggesting such a thread, but wasn't sure how much interest there would be. I dropped the idea. Then I saw the comment I quoted in the OP and felt it did not deserve to go unchallenged. If someone wants to make such a claim, I feel they should back that claim up. I'm hopeful that Radrook will be willing to do that.

This is my Friday my weekend is near! Whoohoo! I'll have some spare time to devote to the thread over the next couple days. I hope I'll have a need to do so (send in those pertinent comments!).

Thanks for all the good comments

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

Gaggle, does your day positioning account for the switch between calendars in 1582 when the current day number was pushed forward 10 days to align the calendar with the seasons? http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/astronomy/GregorianCalendar.html

Oh, drat. I didn't think of that. I remember running into that with the old U*NIX 'cal' utility.

I was using other folk's calendar software, and made some unwarranted assumptions. I don't know if they were actually set up to handle such antique and antic requests.

I'll have to chase down some astronomical data and make my own software to double-check the dates.

Thanks for the nudge.

 

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

... clip ... Tomorrow the sun will rise in Jerusalem at 6:07 AM, and set at 7:10 PM. I've always imagined 0600 and 1800 as the sunrise and sunset times, just to get a better mental picture of the time line. Looks like that was off by about an hour, give or take a little. But I still think it gives a good approximation of the times involved.

The times, back in the day, we 12 hours of day, 12 hours of night, so, yeah - on the cross about noon, maybe a little later, headed towards the crypt about three, maybe a little later. No one had a watch, so, "in the (something)th hour," left a lot of leeway.

... clipped but more or less agreed with ... My opinion is that this is a mistake. Either the writer(s) of these events misquoted Jesus, or misrepresented what actually happened, or Jesus was simply wrong. Either way it bodes ill for the reliability of the Bible as being the Inspired word of God. ... clip ...

I believe that it is the inspired word of God, but that whenever you add human beings to the mix, oddness, self-interest, and sheer stupidity enter the equation, and as they used to say in the Army, you can't make anything idiot-proof because idiots are so ingenious.

As such, you have to interpret the Bible in historical and personal context. I, however, am a heretic, so this opinion stands for no one but me. I do feel, though, that giving the (capital-T) Truth of Creation to some guy that couldn't possibly describe the inner workings of a fluorescent light bulb and expecting scientific accuracy to come out the far end is just hoping for way too much. For instance.

I've been trying, recently, to find a three-days-three-nights original language text for Jonah (Hebrew) and Jesus (Aramaic) to see if they actually describe the time in question as translated. It's hard to find because the process of translation kind of destroys context because the translator often doesn't recognize metaphor and milieu, and other times, they are suborned for personal, social, or political reasons (King James and his witches, for instance, and the Eskimos' rather intense desire to go to that wonderful place with the eternally burning fires).

I'll be back when I find something juicy.

 

[This Guy]

Hi



The times, back in the day, we 12 hours of day, 12 hours of night, so, yeah - on the cross about noon, maybe a little later, headed towards the crypt about three, maybe a little later. No one had a watch, so, "in the (something)th hour," left a lot of leeway.



I believe that it is the inspired word of God, but that whenever you add human beings to the mix, oddness, self-interest, and sheer stupidity enter the equation, and as they used to say in the Army, you can't make anything idiot-proof because idiots are so ingenious.

As such, you have to interpret the Bible in historical and personal context. I, however, am a heretic, so this opinion stands for no one but me. I do feel, though, that giving the (capital-T) Truth of Creation to some guy that couldn't possibly describe the inner workings of a fluorescent light bulb and expecting scientific accuracy to come out the far end is just hoping for way too much. For instance.

I've been trying, recently, to find a three-days-three-nights original language text for Jonah (Hebrew) and Jesus (Aramaic) to see if they actually describe the time in question as translated. It's hard to find because the process of translation kind of destroys context because the translator often doesn't recognize metaphor and milieu, and other times, they are suborned for personal, social, or political reasons (King James and his witches, for instance, and the Eskimos' rather intense desire to go to that wonderful place with the eternally burning fires).

I'll be back when I find something juicy.

I wish you luck on finding the originals for the two 3 days and nights quotes! Because I too am curious about that. I did some searching, to no avail, and decided what the heck, I'll go with what I have and see what happens

Thanks much, Gagglegnash (and sorry about the misspelling last time) for your great input and effort!

 

[Gagglegnash]

I wish you luck on finding the originals for the two 3 days and nights quotes! Because I too am curious about that. I did some searching, to no avail, and decided what the heck, I'll go with what I have and see what happens

Thanks much, Gagglegnash (and sorry about the misspelling last time) for your great input and effort!

I've found a few examples if Hebrew of the text from Jonah:

17 And the LORD appointed a great fish to swallow up Jonah;
and Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

וַיִּירְאוּ הָאֲנָשִׁים יִרְאָה גְדֹולָה אֶת־יְהוָה וַיִּזְבְּחוּ־זֶבַח לַיהוָה וַיִּדְּרוּ נְדָרִים׃ וַיְמַן יְהוָה דָּג גָּדֹול לִבְלֹעַ אֶת־יֹונָה וַיְהִי יֹונָה בִּמְעֵי הַדָּג שְׁלֹשָׁה יָמִים וּשְׁלֹשָׁה לֵילֹות׃

u·imn ieue dg gdul l·blo ath-iune u·iei iune b·moi e·dg shlshe imim u·shlshe liluth.

The, "shlshe imim u·shlshe liluth," being the three days and three nights. This is the same construction as found in 1 Samuel 30:12,13

12 and they gave him a piece of a cake of figs and two clusters of raisins. And when he had eaten, his spirit revived; for he had not eaten bread or drunk water for three days and three nights.

וַיִּתְּנוּ־לֹו פֶלַח דְּבֵלָה וּשְׁנֵי צִמֻּקִים וַיֹּאכַל וַתָּשָׁב רוּחֹו אֵלָיו כִּי לֹא־אָכַל לֶחֶם וְלֹא־שָׁתָה מַיִם שְׁלֹשָׁה יָמִים וּשְׁלֹשָׁה לֵילֹות׃ ס

u·ithnu l·u phlch dble u·shni tzmqim u·iakl u·thshb ruch·u ali·u ki la akl lchm u·la shthe mim shlshe imim u·shlshe liluth

In verse 13, the fellow says:

And David said to him, "To whom do you belong? And where are you from?" He said, "I am a young man of Egypt, servant to an Amal'ekite; and my master left me behind because I fell sick three days ago.

So, in Hebrew of the time, it's very possible that the phrase, "three days and three nights," and, "three days," and, "on the third day," all mean essentially the same thing.

More later.

Oh - and - if I was going to get hot under the collar about someone misspelling my name, I'd have taken something like, "[voice='RowanAtkinson.BlackAdder']Bob[/voice]."

 

[I Ratant]

Hi




Oh, drat. I didn't think of that. I remember running into that with the old U*NIX 'cal' utility.

I was using other folk's calendar software, and made some unwarranted assumptions. I don't know if they were actually set up to handle such antique and antic requests.

I'll have to chase down some astronomical data and make my own software to double-check the dates.

Thanks for the nudge.

.
If you dust off your copy of CLASSICAL PHILOLOGY April 1990, there's an article chasing down the whenabouts of Aristotle when he wrote the Meteorolgica 1-3, which is apparently something of interest to Aristotleans. It wasn't that difficult as there was a verifiable astronomical conjunction mentioned, between Jupiter and a star in Gemini.
Precessung Jupiter's orbit into the probable year span and then looking for suitable stars in Gemini wasn't too difficult.
But I think your task is harder, depending on purely human notations of events.
We (Sheldon Cohen, Jean Meeus and myself) came up with December 5, 337 BC as the date of the conjunction, when Aristotle was in Athens writing that treatise.