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Understanding the Liberal Mindset

Norman Alexander said:
Sarcasm is not related to politics. Also, you have not visited the Soviet Socialist Republic of Australia. Sarcasm is our native language, left and right.
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It has to be an American Progressive thing. There are plenty of progressives in England and Ireland, they wouldn't be able to survive without a healthy understanding of sarcasm.
 
Thanks for the laugh, Trausti. Keep 'em coming. I love them, especially the made-up ones.
 
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ahhell said:
It has to be an American Progressive thing. There are plenty of progressives in England and Ireland, they wouldn't be able to survive without a healthy understanding of sarcasm.
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Especially when they pretend they're surrounded by klansmen.
 
Sigh. It's a waste of my time to continue arguing with folks who make stuff up, and besides, I have more important things to do, like rearranging my sock draw.

But keep the laughs coming. I'll need them when I get done.
 
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Well, this is going nowhere and getting snippy. So, short version. I think white privilege is an over broad generalization of the status of white people and I think as a rule progressives are fine with that particular generalization. Which I found moderately interesting give that most of this thread appears to be progressives objecting to overly broad generalizations of progressives.

No, I'll ask a question. Related to some progressives and their beliefs. I don't understand the police and prison abolition movement. Sure, as a hypothetical goal to work for while realizing its not actually possible I can see. The ideal society is one with no crime and thus no punishment. Some folks, I've met some personally really do seem to think that it is achievable in a reasonable time frame. There is a group that are trying to get engineers and architects to pledge not to build prisons. In my opinion that will only result in worse prison and thus be worse for the folks that these architects and engineers are trying to help. Similarly, without significant cultural change first, actually abolishing the police will almost certainly result in worse conditions for folks in high crime areas.

Can someone explain this mindset to me? I understand, its highly likely that most progressive folks aren't full on abolish the police now and abolish prison now, but some clearly are.
 
ahhell said:
Well, this is going nowhere and getting snippy. So, short version. I think white privilege is an over broad generalization of the status of white people and I think as a rule progressives are fine with that particular generalization. Which I found moderately interesting give that most of this thread appears to be progressives objecting to overly broad generalizations of progressives.

No, I'll ask a question. Related to some progressives and their beliefs. I don't understand the police and prison abolition movement. Sure, as a hypothetical goal to work for while realizing its not actually possible I can see. The ideal society is one with no crime and thus no punishment. Some folks, I've met some personally really do seem to think that it is achievable in a reasonable time frame. There is a group that are trying to get engineers and architects to pledge not to build prisons. In my opinion that will only result in worse prison and thus be worse for the folks that these architects and engineers are trying to help. Similarly, without significant cultural change first, actually abolishing the police will almost certainly result in worse conditions for folks in high crime areas.

Can someone explain this mindset to me? I understand, its highly likely that most progressive folks aren't full on abolish the police now and abolish prison now, but some clearly are.
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I'd be willing to try to explain this niche liberal belief that I'm only now hearing about for the first time if you could explain to me why "law and order" conservatives voted en masse to free hundreds of violent cop-assaulting criminals and consistently turn a blind eye to blatant crimes of the Trump administration?
 
johnny karate said:
I'd be willing to try to explain this niche liberal belief that I'm only now hearing about for the first time if you could explain to me why "law and order" conservatives voted en masse to free hundreds of violent cop-assaulting criminals and consistently turn a blind eye to blatant crimes of the Trump administration?
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Perhaps a facet of the liberal mindset is a steadfast determination to avoid introspection and shout "squirrel" when the progressive position is indefensible.
 
Trausti said:
The handwaving is awesome. If you don't understanding what he is saying, just ask.
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Why shouldn't I hand-wave a random conservative quote you pulled from a CSAM-generating website? Why do you think that because this person said something and you read it while browsing a CSAM-generating website it merits consideration?
 
Ok, let's look at this.
ahhell said:
Well, this is going nowhere and getting snippy. So, short version. I think white privilege is an over broad generalization of the status of white people and I think as a rule progressives are fine with that particular generalization. Which I found moderately interesting give that most of this thread appears to be progressives objecting to overly broad generalizations of progressives.
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Acknowledging white privilege exists and needs to be addressed is not a "liberal only" stance. Solutions will vary.
ahhell said:
No, I'll ask a question. Related to some progressives and their beliefs.
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Ah, better. SOME people do not represent ALL people.
ahhell said:
I don't understand the police and prison abolition movement. Sure, as a hypothetical goal to work for while realizing its not actually possible I can see. The ideal society is one with no crime and thus no punishment. Some folks, I've met some personally really do seem to think that it is achievable in a reasonable time frame. There is a group that are trying to get engineers and architects to pledge not to build prisons. In my opinion that will only result in worse prison and thus be worse for the folks that these architects and engineers are trying to help. Similarly, without significant cultural change first, actually abolishing the police will almost certainly result in worse conditions for folks in high crime areas.
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Ok. I suspect you might find the push is to build no MORE prisons, not eradicate them all. The USA is already the highest imprisoned country in the first world. The liberal push is rather to eliminate the causes of imprisonment rather than just imprison even more people.

Similarly for the police, liberals are asking why the need for more and more of them. Sure, there's real crime needs policing. But having so many poorly trained, militarily armed law enforcers in society is indicative of deeper societal problems altogether.
ahhell said:
Can someone explain this mindset to me? I understand, its highly likely that most progressive folks aren't full on abolish the police now and abolish prison now, but some clearly are.
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No they are not. You should take a look at other societies, liberal societies, who manage to do this far better than "even more of the same failing methods".
 
Norman Alexander said:
Ok, let's look at this.

Acknowledging white privilege exists and needs to be addressed is not a "liberal only" stance. Solutions will vary.

Ah, better. SOME people do not represent ALL people.

Ok. I suspect you might find the push is to build no MORE prisons, not eradicate them all. The USA is already the highest imprisoned country in the first world. The liberal push is rather to eliminate the causes of imprisonment rather than just imprison even more people.

Similarly for the police, liberals are asking why the need for more and more of them. Sure, there's real crime needs policing. But having so many poorly trained, militarily armed law enforcers in society is indicative of deeper societal problems altogether.

No they are not. You should take a look at other societies, liberal societies, who manage to do this far better than "even more of the same failing methods".
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As of the 2024 election, conservatives are objectively more pro-crime than progressives/liberals, so it's unclear to me what the purpose of this inquiry was meant to be.
 
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