UN suspends aid to Gaza

[ddt]

This afternoon, the UNRWA decided to suspend its humanitarian aid operations in Gaza. From the BBC:

The UN's move came shortly after it said one person had been killed and two hurt when a fork-lift truck on a UN aid mission came under Israeli tank fire at Gaza's Erez crossing.
[...]
The UN said the movements of the truck hit at the Erez crossing had been co-ordinated and cleared with the Israeli military.

The Israeli army has not commented on that claim but has said it is looking into the matter.

An article in Haaretz adds:

For a second straight day, Israel said it suspended its Gaza military operation for three hours to allow in humanitarian supplies. Shortly before the pause took effect, however, the UN said one of its aid trucks came under Israeli fire, killing the driver.

In other news, the ICRC accuses Israel of breaking international law. Per the Haaretz:

The International Committee of the Red Cross on Thursday accused Israel of delaying ambulance access to the Gaza Strip and demanded it grant safe access for Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances to return to evacuate more wounded.

Relief workers said they found four starving children sitting next to their dead mothers and other corpses in a house in a part of Gaza City bombed by Israeli forces, the Red Cross said on Thursday.

"This is a shocking incident," said Pierre Wettach, ICRC chief for Israel and the Palestinian territories.

"The Israeli military must have been aware of the situation but did not assist the wounded. Neither did they make it possible for us or the Palestinian Red Crescent to assist the wounded," Wettach said.

The agency said it believed Israel had breached international humanitarian law in the incident.

 

[DC]

great, they stop the aid....
get planes and drop the stuff from air.

 

[Tin Foil Timothy]

It's sad that but not surprising that Israel is preventing medical care to injured Palestinian Children. After all they keep pregnant Palestinian mothers held up at checkpoints in the West Bank causing them to give birth in dirty smelly places. Often complication set in and the mother/and possible child dies. Israeli on the other and are allowed to get to the hospital straight away.

This racist discrimination has gone on for years. Why expect Israel to act any different in it's attacks on Gaza. Israel's spokespeople keep saying that they are trying to minimize civilian causalities. They are lying.

 

[Norseman]

It's sad that but not surprising that Israel is preventing medical care to injured Palestinian Children. After all they keep pregnant Palestinian mothers held up at checkpoints in the West Bank causing them to give birth in dirty smelly places. Often complication set in and the mother/and possible child dies. Israeli on the other and are allowed to get to the hospital straight away.

This racist discrimination has gone on for years. Why expect Israel to act any different in it's attacks on Gaza. Israel's spokespeople keep saying that they are trying to minimize civilian causalities. They are lying.

It is far from clear what has happened here:

According to the foreign media, who based their information on UN sources, IDF tank shells blasted the truck. According to the Magen David Adom medic who claimed to have taken the Palestinians to an Israeli hospital, the truck actually came under Hamas sniper fire.

The Jerusalme Post - Uncertainty shrouds UN driver's death

Generally, as a consequence of the fog of war it can take hours and days, if not even longer, before we get a more complete picture of what really happened. Things are not necessarily as they appears to be at the first sight.

 

[ddt]

It is far from clear what has happened here:


The Jerusalme Post - Uncertainty shrouds UN driver's death

Generally, as a consequence of the fog of war it can take hours and days, if not even longer, before we get a more complete picture of what really happened. Things are not necessarily as they appears to be at the first sight.

I note that the Jerusalem Post is the only which carries this story of the medic. Furthermore, the next paragraph doesn't add to his credibility:

The medic, who asked not to be named, said he got his information from soldiers in the field, but by press time - some eight hours after the incident - the IDF Spokesman's Office was still unable to provide a response or to establish contact with the relevant sources in the field.

So we have:

1. The medic is anonymous
2. He didn't witness the incident himself, he only has it from hearsay
3. The soldiers have relayed this information to him but not to their superiors - or so it seems?
4. Last but not least, why would the IDF return fire with this risk when they could have had the blame solely on the alleged Hamas sniper?

I don't buy this story. But it should be soon very clear whether the UN truck and its driver was hit by a Hamas sniper or by an IDF tank shell.

 

[WildCat]

I don't buy this story. But it should be soon very clear whether the UN truck and its driver was hit by a Hamas sniper or by an IDF tank shell.

A tank shell leaves a dramatically different mark than a bullet does.

 

[gtc]

The soldiers have relayed this information to him but not to their superiors - or so it seems?

Why do you say this?

Last but not least, why would the IDF return fire with this risk when they could have had the blame solely on the alleged Hamas sniper?

It seems like the Israelis are very slow to either release information or to finish investigating things like this. I don't know if we can conclude anything either way from that.

But it should be soon very clear whether the UN truck and its driver was hit by a Hamas sniper or by an IDF tank shell.

Agreed.

 

[ddt]

A tank shell leaves a dramatically different mark than a bullet does.

That was indeed my point.

Why do you say this?

I'd think the IDF spokesman would have cried it from the rooftops if the UN truck driver had been killed by a Hamas sniper.

It seems like the Israelis are very slow to either release information or to finish investigating things like this. I don't know if we can conclude anything either way from that.

OK, but in this case it would be very clear-cut by what/whom the victim would have been hit.

 

[gtc]

I'd think the IDF spokesman would have cried it from the rooftops if the UN truck driver had been killed by a Hamas sniper.

That's not how they seem to work. I suspect they don't want to be caught presenting false information if it turns out they didn't have their facts straight. Or perhaps they just don't want to comment until all the evidence is in. I remember it happened when that family was killed on a beach a few years ago.

It's been noted by the Jerusalem Post:

John Ging, the director of operations in Gaza for UNRWA...
Ging acknowledged, however, that he could not be absolutely certain that the attacks came from IDF forces, telling a reporter who asked whether other combatants may have been responsible, "There is a conflict going on."

...


The incident highlights the dangers involved in sending aid convoys through the crossings into the Gaza Strip. It also shows that the IDF Spokesman's Office is not always able to respond in good time to incidents of this nature.

For at least seven hours, the international media were quoting a version of events that claimed the Palestinian truck driver was killed by an Israeli shell.

The IDF Spokesman began fielding calls regarding the incident from the foreign press at about noon Thursday, and by 7 p.m. had still not been able to get a clear answer from IDF Southern Command.

Peter Lerner, a Defense Ministry spokesman who responds to the international press on humanitarian issues, said six hours after the event that he was unaware of the incident, and referred queries to the IDF. According to MDA, the driver and two others, Palestinian civilians contracted by the UN, suffered gunshot wounds to the chest and upper body. In response to a Post query, a spokeswoman from Barzilai confirmed that the two surviving Palestinians were being treated for gunshot wounds.

And by the Israellycool blog:

I know the IDF Spokesperson’s Office is reading this blog (I was told as much). So if you are reading this, please improve your timing of information and respond promptly to media reports if you have contradictory information or evidence. The most lasting impressions are made within the first few hours of an incident.

 

[gtc]

OK, but in this case it would be very clear-cut by what/whom the victim would have been hit.

According to the Jerusalem Post article (I forgot the link before), it is not even clear who evacuated the victims.

Its a war zone and things are obviously very confused. You shouldn't expect the facts to be sorted out so quickly.

 

[Thunder]

and for the record, Israel has now killed 2 UN workers trying to delivery supplies to civilians.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

 

[dudalb]

Ever hear the term "Self Hating Jew, " Parky?

 

[Thunder]

Ever hear the term "Self Hating Jew, " Parky?

Yes. It a term frequently used by right-wing Zionist racists...to describe those Jews who refuse to agree with their racist, bigoted, extremist, and irrational nationalist thinking.

When a right-wing Zionist or Israeli calls me a "self-hating Jew"...it really doesnt bother me.

Cause I know, deep in my heart, he is really the one who is a bad Jew..not me.

There is more to being a good Jew then just following the Kashrut laws and davening.

There is more to being a good Jew then just waving an Israeli flag and hating Arabs.

We learned this 2 weeks ago with Bernard Madoff. Now we are learning this from the IDF.

 

[geni]

This racist discrimination has gone on for years. Why expect Israel to act any different in it's attacks on Gaza. Israel's spokespeople keep saying that they are trying to minimize civilian causalities. They are lying.

They've racked up maybe a little over 300 civilian kills. Given the population density of gaza that is impessively low.

 

[gtc]

and for the record, Israel has now killed 2 UN workers trying to delivery supplies to civilians.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090108/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians

Isn't that the incident that this thread is about?

 

[gumboot]

Wow... during a war the military cannot give a clear indication of what is happening seven hours after an event?

And?

Seriously? Is this how pathetically demanding and removed from reality we have become? That we expect forces conducting a war to have vast real-time awareness of everything that happens, and to simply hand out that information to any reporter who asks?

Seven hours is soon enough that any official response from the IDF could reveal IDF positions and endanger their mission.

Seven hours.

Ridiculous.

The west are a civilisation of spoiled brats. "I want! Now! Waaaaaa!"

 

[geni]

Seven hours.

Ridiculous.

The west are a civilisation of spoiled brats. "I want! Now! Waaaaaa!"

Depends on the war. We seem to be prepared to wait a long time between updates in the DRC or any information at all when the last war in chad was going on. On the other hand we've been spoiled by live footage from Iraq and the recent attacks in India.

On the other hand info within 7 hours is not actualy that unreasonable. It's a war yes but a war in a city next to a country with a significant data gathering and distribution setup. The fact that Isreal is keeping journalists out of gaza means that realisticaly it cannot complain if people speculate.

 

[kallsop]

Hamas supporters - you'll enjoy these videos:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmXXUOs27lI]Terrorists at a Gaza school, firing mortars into Israel[/URL]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i08L09V0_sg]Hamas leaders speak[/URL]

Probably just a few isolated cranks, no Hamas spiritual leaders or government ministers in there. Oh, hold on....

 

[Texas]

They've racked up maybe a little over 300 civilian kills. Given the population density of gaza that is impessively low.

The information coming out on civilian deaths has reached the absurd and the UN is aiding and abetting it. They have found a propaganda hook and are playing it to the hilt. It has gone from 300 civilian deaths to now 257 children's deaths all based on reports of local medics. That is fully 35% of all deaths reported so far which is 750 including Hamas fighter deaths. If you add reported deaths of Women and Elderly then "civilian deaths are over 50% of the total. That is ridiculous on its face.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jsmrjKAqkshaygppisP-rG6A1k5gD95J81P00

UN: 257 Palestinian children killed in Gaza
By IBRAHIM BARZAK and KARIN LAUB – 4 hours ago

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — Tiny bodies lying side by side wrapped in white burial shrouds. The cherubic face of a dead preschooler sticking up from the rubble of her home. A man cradling a wounded boy in a chaotic emergency room after Israel shelled a U.N. school.

Children, who make up more than half of crowded Gaza's 1.4 million people, are the most defenseless victims of the war between Israel and Hamas. The Israeli army has unleashed unprecedented force in its campaign against Hamas militants, who have been taking cover among civilians.

A photo of 4-year-old Kaukab Al Dayah, just her bloodied head sticking out from the rubble of her home, covered many front pages in the Arab world Wednesday. "This is Israel," read the headline in the Egyptian daily Al-Masry Al-Youm. The preschooler was killed early Tuesday when an F-16 attacked her family's four-story home in Gaza City. Four adults also died.

As many as 257 children have been killed and 1,080 wounded — about a third of the total casualties since Dec. 27, according to U.N. figures released Thursday.

 

[WildCat]

That's not how they seem to work. I suspect they don't want to be caught presenting false information if it turns out they didn't have their facts straight. Or perhaps they just don't want to comment until all the evidence is in. I remember it happened when that family was killed on a beach a few years ago.

Ah yes, another famous incident of Israel guilty until prove innocent. Facts be damned.

It's been noted by the Jerusalem Post:

Ah, so bullets, not a tank shell.

Won't stop anyone from jumping to conclusions though.