UK General Election

[angrysoba]

There is no passport control from Amsterdam to Rome there is a simple boarding pass and identification check but you do not go through the border checks in the Shengen area just as you don't if you are flying from the UK to Ireland or vice versa in the CTA

This is false. If you fly into Dublin from Bristol then you do go through passport control.

 

[angrysoba]

I noticed with astonishment Ruth Davidson's comments decrying Theresa May's pact with the DUP which are the at the very least hypocritical after allowing members of the Orange Order to stand as Tory Councillors in Glasgow. It may be that many people do not understand that in Northern Ireland and in Scotland the DUP and the Orange Order are anti Catholic and in the case of the Orange Order racist as well and that the DUP still have strong links with the paramilitary Protestant terrorist groups in Ireland the UDA http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...on-paramilitaries-peace-process-a7782631.html

It should be well understood, of course, and May should be getting pilloried for making an alliance with the party of Paisley. At least if their disapproval of Corbyn's fraternization with Sinn Fein is principled.

 

[baron]

You consistently criticise "friends of the DUP"? What about criticising people who give the DUP the power to make or break the UK government? We'll see how consistent you are about that.

What about it? I have no problem doing that. You have well made your point that being unbiased is an alien concept to you, but I have no trouble with it.

 

[ddt]

It should be well understood, of course, and May should be getting pilloried for making an alliance with the party of Paisley. At least if their disapproval of Corbyn's fraternization with Sinn Fein is principled.

Sure. And she should be reminded of associating with terrorists as often as Corbyn was/is.

MCel's point was that it was hypocritical of Ruth Davidson to call out May on this, as she associates with the same bigots in Scottish politics.

The Independent article MCel cites - and Darat earlier in this thread - made the point that that, by doing so, May's government cannot be seen as an honest broker in NI politics. Does that automatically mean that any NI seats in Westminster are out of the question in forming a working majority?

 

[Craig B]

It should be well understood, of course, and May should be getting pilloried for making an alliance with the party of Paisley. At least if their disapproval of Corbyn's fraternization with Sinn Fein is principled.

He hasn't suggested giving SF the balance of power, to his credit. That's more than mere fraternisation.

 

[angrysoba]

He hasn't suggested giving SF the balance of power, to his credit. That's more than mere fraternisation.

It was amusing that SF ruled out taking their seats thereby not being available to join a coalition with Corbyn. The IRA have principles of a kind I suppose even if Martin Mcguinness once had tea with the queen.

 

[baron]

He hasn't suggested giving SF the balance of power, to his credit.

He'd need to win an election to do that.

 

[ddt]

He'd need to win an election to do that.

"Win" is relative. Denying the Tories (plus DUP) a majority could be enough. In a hung parliament, it's about which of the two major parties can find enough support with the minor parties to form a majority.

 

[baron]

"Win" is relative. Denying the Tories (plus DUP) a majority could be enough. In a hung parliament, it's about which of the two major parties can find enough support with the minor parties to form a majority.

Yes, and in this case it was May. Corbyn lost the popular vote, he lost the electoral vote and he lost the ability to form a government. The only criteria by which is called a winner is that he managed to garner more votes than Labour's woeful performance in the last election, which they also lost. If Corbyn hadn't set such a low bar early on everybody would be saying how terribly he did and calling for him to resign.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I don't know much about the situation in NI but after reading this thread it seems like forming a coalition with these DUPes is a sure way to total chaos in NI.

It's important not to let the DUP's general grossness overshadow just what a colossally irresponsible move this is from TM. It's INSANE.

In it someone posted a link to a change.org petition which just has passed half a million signatories:

Stop the DUP & TORIES forming a Minority Government!

 

[Garrison]

I don't know much about the situation in NI but after reading this thread it seems like forming a coalition with these DUPes is a sure way to total chaos in NI.




In it someone posted a link to a change.org petition which just has passed half a million signatories:

On this occasion you are correct, one of the key things in dealing with the political process in NI is that the British government acts as an honest broker, that's just gone out of the window at the worst possible time with the NI assembly suspended.

 

[ddt]

Yes, and in this case it was May. Corbyn lost the popular vote, he lost the electoral vote and he lost the ability to form a government. The only criteria by which is called a winner is that he managed to garner more votes than Labour's woeful performance in the last election, which they also lost. If Corbyn hadn't set such a low bar early on everybody would be saying how terribly he did and calling for him to resign.

May only "won" in the sense that she got a plurality, but apparently the only ones willing to prop her up to a majority are NI terrorist huggers.

Corbyn "won" not only in the sense that he outperformed beyond the expectations when the elections were called, but he also outperformed Milliband in 2015. Actually, he outperformed most Labour leaders in the last 50 years.

I don't know much about the situation in NI but after reading this thread it seems like forming a coalition with these DUPes is a sure way to total chaos in NI.

Not to total chaos; you've seen the tweet with the current make-up of the NI executive? It's a way to permeate the chaos.

In it someone posted a link to a change.org petition which just has passed half a million signatories:

A petition seems a bit senseless, especially when started by a long-dead person . There's no law against forming irresponsible coalitions.

BTW, would it have been more palatable with respect to the NI situation if one of the major parties had tried to form a coalition with the UUP, SDLP or Alliance, if they'd had any seats?

 

[abaddon]

This is false. If you fly into Dublin from Bristol then you do go through passport control.

Mostly true, but there are complications. Were you say, on a Syrian passport, flying from Dublin to Bristol you would not qualify for FTA. This is why there exists passport control at each end.

I am unsure why some people don't get that.

One may freely travel from the UK to Ireland, or vice versa, so long as you are a citizen of either country. This does not, obviously, apply to a non Irish/UK citizen. Thus, one must present evidence that one is an Irish/UK citizen. Hence passport control applies. Hence an passport from explodistan might attract attention.

It is a bilateral agreement. See that "bi" at the front? That means two.

Those two would be the UK/Ireland. It does not apply to anybody outside those two.

I cannot figure out why anyone thinks that a bilateral agreement applies to others beyond the two who made the original agreement, nor how the boogey man will sneak in on foot of it.

Now consider what happens at either end. One gets a plane load of people. What does one do? Well, one checks. Are you actually British/Irish? No? Let us have a chat.

And that happens exactly how? Passport control. This is obvious. This is what happens. Demonstrably Irish? In you come. Demonstrably British? In you come.

Neither? OK, wait a minute, further questions may happen.

 

[angrysoba]

Mostly true, but there are complications. Were you say, on a Syrian passport, flying from Dublin to Bristol you would not qualify for FTA. This is why there exists passport control at each end.

I am unsure why some people don't get that.

One may freely travel from the UK to Ireland, or vice versa, so long as you are a citizen of either country. This does not, obviously, apply to a non Irish/UK citizen. Thus, one must present evidence that one is an Irish/UK citizen. Hence passport control applies. Hence an passport from explodistan might attract attention.

It is a bilateral agreement. See that "bi" at the front? That means two.

Those two would be the UK/Ireland. It does not apply to anybody outside those two.

I cannot figure out why anyone thinks that a bilateral agreement applies to others beyond the two who made the original agreement, nor how the boogey man will sneak in on foot of it.

Now consider what happens at either end. One gets a plane load of people. What does one do? Well, one checks. Are you actually British/Irish? No? Let us have a chat.

And that happens exactly how? Passport control. This is obvious. This is what happens. Demonstrably Irish? In you come. Demonstrably British? In you come.

Neither? OK, wait a minute, further questions may happen.

What are you talking about? I just pointed out that there is NO PASSPORT CONTROL if you fly into Bristol from Dublin, whereas there is if you fly from Bristol to Dublin.

My wife, who is not demonstrably British or Irish, and travels on a Japanese passport does not present her passport when she flies into Bristol.

Why? Because there is NO PASSPORT CONTROL at Bristol Airport when you fly from Dublin.

Now there is a visa check if you fly from either end, and when you fly into Dublin you have to go through passport control (I know because I have done it), but you don't when you arrive in Bristol.

 

[Aber]

May only "won" in the sense that she got a plurality, but apparently the only ones willing to prop her up to a majority are NI terrorist huggers.

Corbyn "won" not only in the sense that he outperformed beyond the expectations when the elections were called, but he also outperformed Milliband in 2015. Actually, he outperformed most Labour leaders in the last 50 years.
?

May won in the sense of the highest Conservative share of the vote since 1983.

Corbyn outperformed too, and the joint Tory/Labour share of the vote is the highest since 1970.

The election results were not predicted, and even with hindsight they are difficult to explain.

 

[Craig B]

He'd need to win an election to do that.

He needs to win an election to "suggest" a course of action?

 

[baron]

He needs to win an election to "suggest" a course of action?

If that course of action was incumbent on him winning the election then yes, clearly.

 

[Craig B]

If that course of action was incumbent on him winning the election then yes, clearly.

What nonsense. Politicians suggest things all the time about what governments should do. Perhaps you didn't attend carefully to my post. Corbyn has not suggested anything about SF. He doesn't need to be elected to make such suggestions if he wants to, does he?

 

[psionl0]

It would appear that Australia is not the only country where political leaders are slow learners.

Just as Malcolm Turnbull nearly lost government by calling an early double dissolution Theresa's plan to hold an election three years early has backfired badly. Instead of increasing her majority as all the pundits supposed she would, she alienated the voting public and lost her parliamentary majority as a result.

 

[angrysoba]

It would appear that Australia is not the only country where political leaders are slow learners.

Just as Malcolm Turnbull nearly lost government by calling an early double dissolution Theresa's plan to hold an election three years early has backfired badly. Instead of increasing her majority as all the pundits supposed she would, she alienated the voting public and lost her parliamentary majority as a result.

Not only that, but she went about it the wrong way.

If she had called the election before triggering article 50, and not been so publicly disdainful of debate she probably would have done better. But she turned people off her and appeared arrogant.

Some people here disagreed that she was arrogant and demanded I prove the arrogance in her mind, but I think it is pretty clear that a lot of people interpreted her as that.