UK General Election

Aber said:
Strangely enough the Conservative party is not monolithic in its views.
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True, but in this area its policies have been pretty consistent - pushing to make UK industry more competitive by having as flexible a workforce as possible. This announcement seems to be a significant reversal of this long-held position.
 
McHrozni said:
Yes, if the democracy functions well. This is an important unofficial pillar of democracy - vote people out periodically to ensure they don't abuse their power to maintain control. I'm growing concerned that the UK could fall to the populist-absolutist side.

The groundwork is there - a divided country, a significant crisis and the dominance of one political option. I hope that's all it is.

McHrozni
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I don't have any fears of absolutist rule in the UK. There are too many checks and balances, and there are enough factions within each of the major parties that would resist any such tendencies.

Just as 18 years of Tory rule '79 was not good for the health of our democracy, neither was the 13 years of Labour rule which followed. I think of these things as a big pendulum. If it swings too far in one direction, then the swing back in the other direction tends to be too big too. In an ideal world, I would like to see power changing hands every second election. Two terms Tory, 2 terms Labour, or Labour's replacement........with an occasional coalition thrown in to the mix (as I've said here a number of times, I was quite a fan of the Con-Lib coalition).
 
The Don said:
True, but in this area its policies have been pretty consistent - pushing to make UK industry more competitive by having as flexible a workforce as possible. This announcement seems to be a significant reversal of this long-held position.
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Agreed.

It will help give May a landslide in the short-term, may break Labour's monopoly on some seats, but will cause problems for the Conservatives in the medium term. The post-May leadership election will be a brutal one over the direction of the Conservative party.
 
MikeG said:
I don't have any fears of absolutist rule in the UK. There are too many checks and balances, and there are enough factions within each of the major parties that would resist any such tendencies.

Just as 18 years of Tory rule '79 was not good for the health of our democracy, neither was the 13 years of Labour rule which followed. I think of these things as a big pendulum. If it swings too far in one direction, then the swing back in the other direction tends to be too big too. In an ideal world, I would like to see power changing hands every second election. Two terms Tory, 2 terms Labour, or Labour's replacement........with an occasional coalition thrown in to the mix (as I've said here a number of times, I was quite a fan of the Con-Lib coalition).
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Don't get me wrong, UK is nowhere near Turkey, Poland or Hungary. It has a long standing tradition of democracy and one of the first traditions of limited rule. This election, nor the next, is a do or die for democracy.

No, what I'm worried about is much less significant: the groundwork was laid for changes in that direction. You have a party which will most likely sweep to a overwhelming majority to oversee what could become a major crisis. It would be a crisis of economy and of law (i.e. constitutional crisis), since a large volume of laws will have to be considerably altered to remove the EU from the books while maintaining their function. This alone wouldn't be enough to make me worry however, there is one more ingredient which makes it worrisome - there is no reason to believe Tory party has people capable of handling a change this complex. They will most likely make mistakes, and at least some of those mistakes will be severe and expensive, both financially and politically.

At that point, they will have a choice - either admit they failed in X, take the blame and the fall for it, or abuse their position of overwhelming power to cover it up, silence the hostile media, replace the judges and so on.

This is how several modern dictatorships got started. Even if my worries are misplaced it is something worth looking into before it becomes an issue.

McHrozni
 
It's a crying shame John Smith died in 94 instead of leading labour to victory in 97. What a world that could have been
:(
 
McHrozni said:
The entire Tory position on the matter is contradictory. They campaigned on leaving the EU because EU let in too many people from third countries. Then after Brexit they turn this around to leveling the playing field of EU with the third world countries (presumably increasing immigration from those as opposed from the continent).

Which one is it, then? Do the borders need to be secured due to the influx of immigrants from the third world or is the EU policy too restrictive towards them? You can have one, the other or even neither, but you can't have both.

McHrozni
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No, it's consistent. Too many foreigners are coming in and it's not fair that Europeans get special treatment. Everyone should be treated the same way. Badly. Keep them ALL out.

The Don said:
True, but in this area its policies have been pretty consistent - pushing to make UK industry more competitive by having as flexible a workforce as possible. This announcement seems to be a significant reversal of this long-held position.
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When it comes to the Tories if something doesn't seem quite right I simply assume they are lying. It's worked so far.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
No, it's consistent. Too many foreigners are coming in and it's not fair that Europeans get special treatment. Everyone should be treated the same way. Badly. Keep them ALL out.
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Well, I agree that would be consistent. It's not what either Don or I suggested though :o

My guess would be that the Conservatives are themselves in rather severe internal turmoil. Eventually one of the factions will win and they will claim this was of course their policy and intent all along.

McHrozni
 
Len McCLuskey of the Unite Union, primary backer of Corbyn, has set the bar very low indeed by saying that getting 200 seats would be a good result. Well, that's 29 fewer than they have now, and would be their worst result post-1945. BBC.

I assume this is just a way of trying to keep Corbyn as party leader after a crushing defeat. But on the detail.......I can't see them even winning 200 seats. I think they'll do well to 'only' lose 50 MPs.
 
McHrozni said:
Well, I agree that would be consistent. It's not what either Don or I suggested though :o
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Yes, that's why I am not sure what you and/or Don seem confused about. The rationalisations presented are excuses for whatever is needed to be done to keep the foreigners out. There are too many 'low value people' (actual words of Ian Duncan Smith) coming in.

Also compare the contradictory messages with the Tory recently seen arguing on Twitter that abolishing tuition fees is damaging to poor people's chances of further (sic) education.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
Yes, that's why I am not sure what you and/or Don seem confused about. The rationalisations presented are excuses for whatever is needed to be done to keep the foreigners out. There are too many 'low value people' (actual words of Ian Duncan Smith) coming in.
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There is a small constituency out there who genuinely want an absolutely level playing field for immigrants regardless of where they come from and either want everyone to have free access or they want everyone to have the same, modest, level of scrutiny. It is very much a minority view, but it does exist.

It's true that there's a much, much, larger group who just want to keep foreigners out but they tend to be much more forthright about their views.
 
MikeG said:
Len McCLuskey of the Unite Union, primary backer of Corbyn, has set the bar very low indeed by saying that getting 200 seats would be a good result. Well, that's 29 fewer than they have now, and would be their worst result post-1945. BBC.
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Len's changed his mind.

Labour can now win.

Unite leader Len McCluskey insists he is "now full of optimism" about Labour's general election hopes despite saying in an interview he could not see the party winning.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-39944331

Apparently seeing the manifesto caused the volte-face :rolleyes:
 
Meanwhile, Boris is out and about, winning hearts and minds. Today at a sikh temple:
Sensational gaffe by Boris. After promising free trade to end tariffs on whisky between UK & India, Sikh lady informs it's against religion
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https://twitter.com/SimsonPete/status/864787414698655744
She's absolutely livid. Boris Johnson apologises. "How dare you talk about alcohol in a Sikh temple."
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https://twitter.com/SimsonPete/status/864787658198876160
She told him about alcoholism in her family. He's apologised several times
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https://twitter.com/SimsonPete/status/864791813734977536
 
The Don said:
There is a small constituency out there who genuinely want an absolutely level playing field for immigrants regardless of where they come from and either want everyone to have free access or they want everyone to have the same, modest, level of scrutiny. It is very much a minority view, but it does exist.

It's true that there's a much, much, larger group who just want to keep foreigners out but they tend to be much more forthright about their views.
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And as expected Theresa has announced her purge. Companies to be punished for employing non-EU workers and immigrants to pay for NHS. What a complete see you next tuesday that woman is.
 
Bit surprised by the stuff targeting pensioners, but I guess she's so sure of their votes she can afford to take this opportunity to reduce benefits that are going to be even more unaffordable post Brexit.

I only recently realised that I'll be eligible for the winter fuel allowance this year. Looks like I'll be getting it just the once.
 
I'm wondering who Vlad wants to win. Or is his work here done? Damn, he's had a good year.
 
Jeremy Rhyming-Slang was on the Beeb this morning getting rather flustered about the line of questioning re: actual costings for the winter fuel allowance, and how many would be affected. Essentially they haven't figured that bit out, is my take-away.
 
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