UK General Election

Never mind anything else.........the stuff about increasing trade union rights and repealing union legislation should make anyone older than about 45 sit up and take notice. There was a reason why Thatcher had to do what she did with regards to the unions, and to unpick that now would be to unleash the hounds of hell. The thought of trade unions trying to bring the elected government down, and telling governments what to do.......as well as sympathy strikes and mass picketing........should be enough to persuade anyone that Corbyn has lost his marbles with this idea. Luckily, he'll never get the chance to put this nonsense into practise, and with his fingerprints all over this document, when it gets roundly rejected in 4 weeks time he will have to pay the price by resigning.
 
McHrozni said:
I'm missing the cybernetic shape-shifting elephant in the room, what kind of a Brexit deal would Labour pursue?

I think this is more important for the future of UK than, say, refusing to make false promises on immigration. I would argue that issue also encompasses the issue of immigration to the maximum possible extent.

McHrozni
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Haven't had a chance to look at it in detail but I've read summaries that say they say they want to stay in the single market
 
McHrozni said:
I'm missing the cybernetic shape-shifting elephant in the room, what kind of a Brexit deal would Labour pursue?
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This:

We will scrap the Conservatives' Brexit White Paper and replace it with fresh negotiating priorities that have a strong emphasis on retaining the benefits of the Single Market and the Customs Union - which are essential for maintaining industries, jobs and businesses in Britain
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And:

no deal is not a viable option
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So whatever deal the EU wants to give the UK;)
 
MikeG said:
Never mind anything else.........the stuff about increasing trade union rights and repealing union legislation should make anyone older than about 45 sit up and take notice.
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More importantly, the employments rights promises are complex but seem to include banning unpaid internships, banning zero hours contracts, all workers/self-employed to be presumed to be employees, and full employment rights from day 1.

This will have huge unintended consequences on the labour market
 
Aber said:
More importantly, the employments rights promises are complex but seem to include banning unpaid internships, banning zero hours contracts, all workers/self-employed to be presumed to be employees, and full employment rights from day 1.

This will have huge unintended consequences on the labour market
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Absolutely. It might be argued to be in Labour's long term interest to have people unemployed and dependent on the state, so maybe this is their cunning plan. I mean, for pity sake..........full employment rights from day 1! Are they serious? Does that mean they'd stop people being taken on for a trial period? So what do they think this would do for the employment market? How would youngsters ever get their first job?
 
Aber said:
More importantly, the employments rights promises are complex but seem to include banning unpaid internships, banning zero hours contracts, all workers/self-employed to be presumed to be employees, and full employment rights from day 1.

This will have huge unintended consequences on the labour market
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all four seem like good ideas to me.
 
MikeG said:
I mean, for pity sake..........full employment rights from day 1! Are they serious? Does that mean they'd stop people being taken on for a trial period? So what do they think this would do for the employment market? How would youngsters ever get their first job?
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Apologies, it actually says:

Give all workers equal rights from day one
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and that may mean something different.
 
MikeG said:
Never mind anything else.........the stuff about increasing trade union rights and repealing union legislation should make anyone older than about 45 sit up and take notice. There was a reason why Thatcher had to do what she did with regards to the unions, and to unpick that now would be to unleash the hounds of hell. The thought of trade unions trying to bring the elected government down, and telling governments what to do.......as well as sympathy strikes and mass picketing........should be enough to persuade anyone that Corbyn has lost his marbles with this idea. Luckily, he'll never get the chance to put this nonsense into practise, and with his fingerprints all over this document, when it gets roundly rejected in 4 weeks time he will have to pay the price by resigning.
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I think you may be being a little melodramatic here. Unionisation doesn't have to come with all the 70's baggage and I think that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Wages have stagnated and most people not working at the very top of the tree have effectively had their wages cut over the last x years while corporate profits have been rising.

Absent some sort of concerted action, corporate culture will continue to drive down wages which will slow the economy. Some sort of unionisation may assist with that. Something needs to, most of the country would quite like a cost of living increase, I think.
 
Aber said:
Apologies, it actually says:

and that may mean something different.
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I suppose we would get the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth from employers followed by everyone just getting on with it

There is no real reason not to extend these rights other than employers wanting to take the piss really.
 
3point14 said:
I think you may be being a little melodramatic here. Unionisation doesn't have to come with all the 70's baggage and I think that the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Wages have stagnated and most people not working at the very top of the tree have effectively had their wages cut over the last x years while corporate profits have been rising.

Absent some sort of concerted action, corporate culture will continue to drive down wages which will slow the economy. Some sort of unionisation may assist with that. Something needs to, most of the country would quite like a cost of living increase, I think.
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The problem was the adversarial culture. Plenty of countries have strong workers rights and unionisation to the benefit of all. Some people can't see beyond their own narrow blinkered view of the world though.
 
Archie Gemmill Goal said:
The problem was the adversarial culture. Plenty of countries have strong workers rights and unionisation to the benefit of all. Some people can't see beyond their own narrow blinkered view of the world though.
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....and that includes some (but not all) union leaders.

Key Corbyn supporters like Len McCluskey seem locked in the adversarial union/management relationship which plagued British industry for large parts of last century.

For sure German companies have very different relationships with their unions, but then again the unions have very different relationships with the companies. My understanding is that they with both try to work for the common good rather than attempting to score points at the expense of the other.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
So the Tories can look to have a supermajority. If that map happens say goodbye to labour for a generation.
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I'd be quite happy to see the back of the shambles that is the current Labour party forever.

There's a brave new world out there, automation is going to wipe out a lot of manual jobs in the next couple of decades, we are unpicking our country from the EU, that's going to take a decade to sort out properly there's all sorts of challenges up ahead and we need a coherent opposition to the government to hold them to task to make sure they act in the best interests of the country and not the Conservative party.

the current Labour 'led' opposition might as well not exist.

Previously when political parties run things for long periods of time they upset enough of the electorate to vote in 'the other lot' (see 1997) so I doubt we'll be under Tory rule for the next 20 years.

I expect Corbyn to lose so badly that Labour finally rejects the more extreme left wing nonsense and Labour trends back towards centre left and is actually electable the next time we all go to the polls.
 
Ambrosia said:
I'd be quite happy to see the back of the shambles that is the current Labour party forever.

There's a brave new world out there, automation is going to wipe out a lot of manual jobs in the next couple of decades, we are unpicking our country from the EU, that's going to take a decade to sort out properly there's all sorts of challenges up ahead and we need a coherent opposition to the government to hold them to task to make sure they act in the best interests of the country and not the Conservative party.

the current Labour 'led' opposition might as well not exist.

Previously when political parties run things for long periods of time they upset enough of the electorate to vote in 'the other lot' (see 1997) so I doubt we'll be under Tory rule for the next 20 years.

I expect Corbyn to lose so badly that Labour finally rejects the more extreme left wing nonsense and Labour trends back towards centre left and is actually electable the next time we all go to the polls.
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Unfortunately, Momentum are the kingmakers in Labour now, meaning that any change is now impossible.
 
NWO Sentryman said:
So the Tories can look to have a supermajority........
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There is no such thing over here. I think the usual definition of a super-majority is one which is sufficiently large as to be able to change the constitution, isn't it? Well, without a written constitution........:)
 
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