Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
Noty in every constituency, though. My MP was elected on 60% of the vote.
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UK General Election
- Thread starter Darat
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Information Analyst
Penultimate Amazing
So in most cases we would end up with the same MP, except they'd manage it on even less of a percentage of the vote, whilst all the also-rans would get a bit more of a percentage each. And you were just complaining about 75% of votes being wasted....
Headline from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353
Yes, how dare they point out what a shocking cock-up the current government are making of the early stages
That said, IMO a Corbyn-led Labour Party wouldn't be much better. Though they may want closer ties to Europe and wouldn't abandon human rights, they'd likely be even more incompetent than the Tories. May may be IMO utterly wrong but at least she is heading steadfastly in the (IMO) wrong direction. Corbyn would merely vacillate.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353
Yes, how dare they point out what a shocking cock-up the current government are making of the early stages
That said, IMO a Corbyn-led Labour Party wouldn't be much better. Though they may want closer ties to Europe and wouldn't abandon human rights, they'd likely be even more incompetent than the Tories. May may be IMO utterly wrong but at least she is heading steadfastly in the (IMO) wrong direction. Corbyn would merely vacillate.
Headline from the BBC:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39787353
Yes, how dare they point out what a shocking cock-up the current government are making of the early stages
That said, IMO a Corbyn-led Labour Party wouldn't be much better. Though they may want closer ties to Europe and wouldn't abandon human rights, they'd likely be even more incompetent than the Tories. May may be IMO utterly wrong but at least she is heading steadfastly in the (IMO) wrong direction. Corbyn would merely vacillate.
Oh come on, The Don. You know this is twaddle.
Shocking cock up? Really? They haven't even begun talking yet, and you're calling it a shocking cock up already. That's like deciding the outcome of a rugby international by how well the teams are singing the national anthems.
3point14
Pi
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Is there any good news?
What's going to be better after than before?
Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places, but I desperately want there to be one, reasonably certain upside to the UK leaving the EU.
As stands, from Cameron's manifesto pledge, to date, it's been a shocking cock-up. I haven't noticed anything to change my mind.
Not at all. The Conservative Party has been very clear about its desire to curtail human rights, especially those "imposed" by the EU. They fought long, hard and successfully to prevent prisoners from getting the vote,
I'm not sure how you can classify the UK's Brexit response to be anything other than a cock-up since the vote. From the inability to even staff the departments responsible for Brexit, the ministers involved briefing against each other, the apparent lack of knowledge about the process and the stumbling embarrassment of a high court ruling. Heck even "call me Dave's" assertion that Article 50 would be triggered immediately.
You are of course correct that we have no idea how Brexit will eventually turn out - though IMO the lack of good news to counter the news of companies planning to move business to the EU isn't great - but to use your rugby analogy, the EU is all in matching kit and have 15 players on the pitch in good time. We have a mixed bag of 10 players, some of whom seem to be union players, some of whom are league and at least one of whom seems dressed for Aussie rules. Our warm up seems to involve forward hand-passes and has missed any mauling so it's not clear that we're sure of the rules.
Sure we could surprise them and play a blinder but so far appearances aren't good and our head coach, rather than sorting out the team would rather castigate the opposition coach for pointing out that our players don't seem to have much of a clue.
3point14
Pi
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3point14
Pi
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Yeah, I'm not confident in the current and probably future PM being quite the bastion of human rights legislation that we might hope she'll be...
https://rightsinfo.org/tory-leadership-candidates-stand-human-rights/
"Theresa May’s views on human rights are well known, largely because she has been Home Secretary since 2010. May has been an MP since 1992, after starting her career in the Bank of England in 1977. It is fair to say she has never been a strong supporter of the Human Rights Act or the European Convention on Human Rights – she voted against the Human Rights Act in 1998. In 2011, she notoriously told the Conservative Party Conference a story about the “illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because – and I am not making this up – he had a pet cat”. It turned out she was making it up."
https://rightsinfo.org/tory-leadership-candidates-stand-human-rights/
"Theresa May’s views on human rights are well known, largely because she has been Home Secretary since 2010. May has been an MP since 1992, after starting her career in the Bank of England in 1977. It is fair to say she has never been a strong supporter of the Human Rights Act or the European Convention on Human Rights – she voted against the Human Rights Act in 1998. In 2011, she notoriously told the Conservative Party Conference a story about the “illegal immigrant who cannot be deported because – and I am not making this up – he had a pet cat”. It turned out she was making it up."
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Prisoners have never had the vote here. Just because Brussels suddenly decides it to be an inalienable human right, that doesn't make it so, and nor does Britain attempting to hold on to the status quo anti make us human right abrogators. How about quoting from the UN Declaration of Human Rights on the right for prisoners to vote? Why does EU views on this matter trump UN views on it?
You also know very well that different countries in EU have enshrined the ECHR into domestic law in many different ways, and that the proposals that have come from the Conservative Party are to revisit that enshrinement, not scrap human rights. Maybe if we ever get far enough through the Brexit negotiations for that conversation to be be had then discussing any actual proposals proffered by the government would be sensible. In the meantime, in the absence of any government policy in this area, this is just silly scaremongering. For the life of me I can't see why you seem so intent on misrepresenting the government's intentions and actions. Is it just to start arguments in here?
It's a higher level of human rights. I cannot for the life of me work out why we should aspire to a lower level of human rights.
The Conservative Party has consistently railed against "EU imposed" human rights and indeed has obtained various opt-outs. Theresa May, in her role of Home Secretary, has often taken a leading role.
Now party and leader could have had an epiphany and could suddenly be proposing to enhance human rights in the UK beyond what they have complained bitterly about but I won't hold my breath.
Great. Now how about responding to what I actually wrote? Actually, let me be stronger than that. I find the whole
pathetic assumption of malevolence in everything the government does to be petty and puerile. It's tribal, and it doesn't involve any critical thinking whatever.
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Archie Gemmill Goal
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I'm not sure how much more clear I can make it so assume you are being deliberately faux thick for effect?
My vote is functionally no different from not voting. They might as well tear up my ballot and not bother counting it. It wouldn't matter if the person in the lead was Tory Lib dem labour or whatever. The same problem would be there for two thirds of voters
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Me personally? Keep pointing out how the current system disenfranchises people and encourages them not to bother voting or engaging in politics. Of course some people prefer that way.
Archie Gemmill Goal
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Good for you only 40% of the people who live in your area might as well not have bothered to vote.
Archie Gemmill Goal
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But the also rans would get representation in parliament and every vote would count and be worth making.
You seem to think that people voting for someone they don't actually prefer under fptp is better because it makes it look as if the winner has more support?
Archie Gemmill Goal
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There's no assumption of malevolence from May it's evidenced and proven from her history. Of course right wing fools who think they are centrist will probably disagree but they are right wing fools who should not be listened to. ,
angrysoba
Philosophile
Only because not enough other voters in your constituency agree with you.
Anyway, I don't know what your particular seat is and how safe it is, but "safe seats" have fluctuated over time especially recently with the decline of the Lib Dems, the rise of the SNP and the threat to the Tories that UKIP posed. I expect we'll see a few "safe" Labour seats fall as well.
You already pointed out that you used to live in a safe Labour seat and now live in a safe Tory seat. That only means that your vote is comparatively important depending on where you live, if your concern is to vote for a party that represents your views, rather than, say, a parliamentary candidate. But it does not mean you have no vote at all. I, on the other hand, do have no vote at all.
fromdownunder
Philosopher
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Possibly off topic, but worth mentioning. Queensland in Australia, which has no upper house, and optional preferential voting - you can vote for one or more candidates and your preferences will count if you use this option.
In the 2013 election, the sitting Queensland Government (Labor at the time) went into the election with 51 seats over the Libs. 34. Hard to beat?
After the election It was Libs 78, Labor 7 with a 13.7% swing. It was predicted that Labor would take decades to rec over from this debacle.
The next election in 2015? Well, Labor won power back taking 44 seats to 42 and a 14% swing.
Your vote and your activity can make a difference if you care enough.
Norm