UK - Election 2015

[MikeG]

Quite - and I didn't say it was. I am simply pointing out that the Scottish people have spoken and referendum or not I don't see how London can just ignore it. Devo Max or whatever won't do it any longer.

I don't understand. Are you saying that despite there being no mention of a referendum in the election campaign in Scotland that they ought to have another one anyway?

 

[Rum]

I don't understand. Are you saying that despite there being no mention of a referendum in the election campaign in Scotland that they ought to have another one anyway?

No. I have no idea of course if a referendum will be engineered - who knows. It just might but it might not. However the SNP have a mandate and part of their manifesto is to gain independence. How they do that given their rather impressive political machinations at times, will be determined no doubt. I suppose they might aim for after the next election, but somehow I can't see it taking that long.

In the mean time they are going to make life as difficult for Cameron as they can I am sure.

 

[jimbob]

I wish I shared your sanguine assessment.

UKIP support is entirely anti-EU

My experience of rural Conservatives is that they are vociferously anti-EU

A significant proportion of Labour supporters are also anti-EU

Large sections of the press are anti-EU

The British public are easily swayed by baubles



I didn't make it clear, the recession to which I refer is the one that would result from the UK leaving the EU. I agree that austerity will not cause a recession and that if the UK does not leave the EU, the slow recovery will continue.

I am concerned about this too. I work in high-tech manufacturing (semiconductors) and a significant amount of our business goes to EU carmakers.

Our site's prospects are almost completely dissociated from the UK economic outlook, whilst tied very tightly to the European and Asian economic outlook.

 

[Rat]

I think the vote against AV was largely because a massive proportion of voters vote for a particular party, have always voted for a particular party, probably come from a family that has always voted for a particular party. Most people are Tory people or Labour people, and AV is seen as something that would weaken the bigger parties.

 

[funk de fino]

I don't see how you can support that view. A party whose stated (and printed in the current manifesto) policy is to gain independence won by a landslide. If you vote for a party you can't pick and chose what bits you want them to implement. You guys voted for them and you have got them. They will pursue it because they have to. Democracy at work, whether you are a unionist of a nationalist.

Because I have been an SNP voter and a nationalist all my life. Referendums would come from Scottish assembly voting. We voted for them knowing that referendum was nothing to do with this election. If you fail to grasp that from afar then that's not our fault. You may call it an appeal to authority if you want but I would retort that yours was a claim from ignorance

 

[Nessie]

UKIP 12.6 % of the vote and 1 seat. The SNP 4.7% of the vote and 56 seats. The NO vote in the referendum followed by an SNP landslide.

Clearly there is good reason and will for more devolved powers to all parts of the UK, but the UK to remain one country.

 

[angrysoba]

Motives?

Please don't take it personally.

It just seems anti-democratic to me that votes concentrated in a certain area should count more than a greater number of votes spread out over a wider area. I'm not really understanding how it could not be seen that way. Not that I care for UKIP.

No, it's a parliamentary system and as such is very similar to the U.S. System of division of electoral college votes. Clearly some voters votes will be worth more than others when looked at on a national scale if party politics is your only metric, but if it is about voting for an MP then generally votes should be more or less equal.

I'm fully aware of how certain parties end up being relatively poorly represented in parliament compared to the votes they have gained but I have preferred FTFP over PR long before this election and don't need to be asked hypotheticals about parties A and B as though I was an ignoramus about this.

 

[Rum]

Because I have been an SNP voter and a nationalist all my life. Referendums would come from Scottish assembly voting. We voted for them knowing that referendum was nothing to do with this election. If you fail to grasp that from afar then that's not our fault. You may call it an appeal to authority if you want but I would retort that yours was a claim from ignorance

As I have stated elsewhere I have no idea if there will be another referendum during this parliament. My point is simply that independence is part of the SNP's manifesto and they will be pursuing it knowing they have a mandate. I can't see you lot waiting another five years however ignorant you seem to think I am.

 

[funk de fino]

These were the key priorities from the SNP for the 2015 UK general election. As were communicated in all debates. Show me 2nd referendum in the below.

Key priorities

Spending increase of 0.5% a year, enabling £140bn extra investment
Annual UK target of 100,000 affordable homes
Increase in minimum wage to £8.70 by 2020
Restore the 50p top income tax rate for those earning more than £150,000; introduce a mansion tax and a bankers' bonus tax
Build an alliance against the renewal of Trident
Retain the triple lock on pensions and protect the winter fuel allowance

 

[The Don]

I don't know about will, but 50% of the electorate that voted wiped the Unionists off the face of the electoral map here. They voted for a party who rejected austerity, do not want Trident and are pro EU

I'm economically significantly more conservative than the SNP (I wouldn't reject austerity altogether but then again I'd advocate investment in the strategic national interest) but I wholeheartedly agree on the SNP's Trident stance and I'm very pro-EU.

If I lived in Scotland I'd have seriously considered voting SNP, particularly because the independence issue was off the table for the general election.

 

[Craig B]

Forgive me if these figures are not 100% accurate, but how about this for a contrast:

Ukip have won over twice the votes that the SNP have won. They will probably only have 1 MP (thanks goodness). SNP will have 56. The SNP will puff themselves up as the legitimate voice of Scotland, and have a significant voice in national opposition politics, but with twice as many votes, UKIP will lose their leader and be an insignificant pimple on the backside of politics for the next 5 years. Somewhere in there resides fairness, apparently.

SNP got their votes from a population of five million. UKIP from 64 million. Therein resides the fairness. A party that manages to get as big a vote from a population ten times smaller.

 

[MikeG]

The first four cabinet ministers have been announced. Home secretary, Foreign secretary, Chancellor & Defence minister are all unchanged.

Announced on twitter, for goodness sake.

 

[funk de fino]

And here it is straight from the manifesto

Delivering Home Rule for Scotland

The SNP will always support independence - but that is not what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger.
We will use the influence of SNP votes at Westminster to ensure that promises made during the referendum are delivered.
We will demand, firstly, that the proposals of the Smith Commission are delivered quickly and in full.
We believe that these proposals do not go far enough to honour the promises made during the referendum.

 

[3point14]

These were the key priorities from the SNP for the 2015 UK general election. As were communicated in all debates. Show me 2nd referendum in the below.

This says:


Delivering Home Rule for Scotland.

The SNP will always support independence - but that is not what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger.

 

[Rum]

And here it is straight from the manifesto

I find your selective blindness a bit puzzling. Look at the first sentence again?

 

[MikeG]

I find your selective blindness a bit puzzling. Look at the first sentence again?

You two are only discussing a matter of timing. The SNP leader has explicitly described the timing. Why would you assume that it won't be as she says?

 

[funk de fino]

I find your selective blindness a bit puzzling. Look at the first sentence again?

Ha ha ha ha ha. That's not me that's blind or ignorant here. This election was never about another referendum. Straight from the horses mouth. If that's not good enough for you then I can't help you. The first sentence was the heading of that section and explains that this wasn't about it. Jeeper creepers. It wasn't what their priorities were. They were in my other post

If we have a sweeping win in the Scottish assembly election next time it may come back on the agenda but too soon and we risk everything. SNP did not get 50% of the vote by pushing the 2nd referendum agenda.

 

[funk de fino]

This says:


Delivering Home Rule for Scotland.

The SNP will always support independence - but that is not what this election is about. It is about making Scotland stronger.

Another who failed in reading comprehension.

 

[Puppycow]

The NO vote in the referendum followed by an SNP landslide.

Turnout was 85% for the referendum vs. 71% for this election. Some people who don't normally vote in mere parliamentary elections clearly thought the referendum was important enough to vote.

 

[funk de fino]

You two are only discussing a matter of timing. The SNP leader has explicitly described the timing. Why would you assume that it won't be as she says?

Indeed. The SNP has independence as their main plank. But that wasn't what this election was about at all. if we had another vote now the SNP would lose. Sturgeon is not that stupid despite what others here obviously think from afar

I'd like to think another 5 years of Tory rule would tip the balance for the next time