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UK - Election 2015

ddt said:
Look at the UKIP candidate in Tooting: De Skuba Skwirszynski. There's another filthy Polish immigrant trying to steal English jobs and live off the English taxpayer!
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:D:D:D:D:D:D

Now then, ddt, talking of UKIP, you and I need a little chat.........:D:D:D:D
 
Puppycow said:
I think the Israeli system is quite different in that seats are apportioned according to the national share of the vote. There is no MP (MK rather) representing a particular area. Instead the voter chooses a political party, not a specific candidate and the party gets as many MKs as its corresponding share of the national vote.

Whether this is a better system or not is up to you, but it seems to lead to lots of smallish parties which need to form into a coalition to govern.
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PR doesn't necessarily lead to many smallish parties. There are a couple of elements in Israeli politics which make it so.

The Don said:
Does that mean that there's no concept of local representation ? Our local MP has, from time to time, voted against the party whip in order to represent the views and opinions of his constituents (where these conflict with party policy).
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No there isn't. If you want that concept, you can look at the German (or the Scottish) election system: a district system topped up with list seats to achieve PR.

angrysoba said:
It's not better. It makes parties stronger because they select their own candidates from the list according to party loyalty. In the UK, although parties have the power of deselection, candidates can still win in constituencies regardless of powerful party backing. How could you possibly vote out Nick Clegg or Nigel Farage in such a system?
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PR with open lists - i.e., you vote for a specific candidate on a list, like in the Netherlands - takes care of that. You can't realistically vote out the leader, but you can vote in candidates that are down on the list.

We've gone over these things before. FPTP is about the worst system you can have, and all advantages that are argued in its favour can be found in other systems.
 
The Don said:
I suspect that there may be some "Sad Farage" pictures today which could be used to settle an avatar bet.
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Maybe. I really liked the Wilders photo you linked to last night, though, and I'm wondering if there is a good image from the sleeve of the Beck record: Loser. All options remain open.

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NEVER discount anything AngloLawyer says ever again. He may have been the only one on here to predict a Conservative majority.
 
MikeG said:
:D:D:D:D:D:D

Now then, ddt, talking of UKIP, you and I need a little chat.........:D:D:D:D
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:D I'm waiting with my formal concession speech until Thanet South is called and Farage loses, or if there are not enough white spots on the map to get to 5 UKIP seats. But realistically, that's not going to happen seeing where the white spots are.
 
angrysoba said:
To be fair it would be racist to demand a higher standard of Polish people than with English (or British) people. And Solidarity's out of favour if I understand correctly.
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Fair enough. But what has Lech Walesa's trade union to do with this?
 
MikeG said:
Maybe. I really liked the Wilders photo you linked to last night, though, and I'm wondering if there is a good image from the sleeve of the Beck record: Loser. All options remain open.

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NEVER discount anything AngloLawyer says ever again. He may have been the only one on here to predict a Conservative majority.
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I did? :confused: Yay me! :)

I look forward to seeing ddt's new avatar with interest. Perhaps he will like it and decide to keep it :D
 
ddt said:
PR doesn't necessarily lead to many smallish parties. There are a couple of elements in Israeli politics which make it so.


No there isn't. If you want that concept, you can look at the German (or the Scottish) election system: a district system topped up with list seats to achieve PR.


PR with open lists - i.e., you vote for a specific candidate on a list, like in the Netherlands - takes care of that. You can't realistically vote out the leader, but you can vote in candidates that are down on the list.

We've gone over these things before. FPTP is about the worst system you can have, and all advantages that are argued in its favour can be found in other systems.
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Yes, but Israel's system is specifically Party List which I think is worse than FTFP because it all but prohibits someone running a successful independent campaign.
 
Darat said:
Looks like Labour were right, vote SNP get Cameron.
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The majority of Cameron is all on Labour's fault. In England, they picked up less than half of the LibDem losses and didn't gain from the Tories. In Scotland, the SNP has achieved to wipe out 83% of the seats of the coalition.

anglolawyer said:
I am sorry Galloway lost his seat. The commons has lost a valuable and excoriating critic of UK foreign policy in the ME.
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While I agree with most of his criticism about that, for the rest he's an odious man. Good riddance. He got quite trashed, I see. And what has happened with the complaint about his early tweet?
 
The Don said:
The flipside is that Scotland (and other areas like rural England that vote a single way) gets the representation that reflects their politics.
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Really, 56 out of 59 seats SNP, and yet the SNP's Independence for the Jocks campaign recently failed?
 
Forgive me if these figures are not 100% accurate, but how about this for a contrast:

Ukip have won over twice the votes that the SNP have won. They will probably only have 1 MP (thanks goodness). SNP will have 56. The SNP will puff themselves up as the legitimate voice of Scotland, and have a significant voice in national opposition politics, but with twice as many votes, UKIP will lose their leader and be an insignificant pimple on the backside of politics for the next 5 years. Somewhere in there resides fairness, apparently.
 
MikeG said:
Forgive me if these figures are not 100% accurate, but how about this for a contrast:

Ukip have won over twice the votes that the SNP have won. They will probably only have 1 MP (thanks goodness). SNP will have 56. The SNP will puff themselves up as the legitimate voice of Scotland, and have a significant voice in national opposition politics, but with twice as many votes, UKIP will lose their leader and be an insignificant pimple on the backside of politics for the next 5 years. Somewhere in there resides fairness, apparently.
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It might make more sense in terms of percentage of population.

God I'm depressed.
 
Noztradamus said:
Really, 56 out of 59 seats SNP, and yet the SNP's Independence for the Jocks campaign recently failed?
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It's not actually the case that all SNP voters are pro-independence. Besides turnout is lower in this election than the referendum. At least in the UK as a whole, not sure about Scotland.
 
The BBC are calling the resignation of Milliband.

eta:BBC

Now that Ed Balls is gone, who is likely to be the next Labour shadow chancellor? Bookies Paddy Power have been looking at the runners and riders.

Yvette Cooper, Mr Balls' wife, is current favourite at 5/1 with Chuka Umunna and Chris Leslie just behind at 6/1.

If Ed Miliband does quit as leader, Andy Burnham is the favourite to take over, on odds of 7/4, with Ms Cooper at 9/4 and Mr Umunna at 3/1. Dan Jarvis and Tristram Hunt are also thought to be in the running, at odds of 6/1 and 11/1 respectively.
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No comments on Vince Cable?

Ever since he was secretly filmed claiming to hold the nuclear option over the coalition I've been hoping that his arrogance would come back to haunt him. I'm rather pleased he has gone, despite being a competent Minister, and despite me being a life-long Liberal or Lib Dem voter.
 
Noztradamus said:
Really, 56 out of 59 seats SNP, and yet the SNP's Independence for the Jocks campaign recently failed?
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Yes, you're right, it doesn't properly reflect the views of the Scottish voters but it does highlight the degree to which Scotland is more left wing than the rest of the UK.

The SNP is the main left-wing party. If you're voting in Scotland and are anti-austerity, anti-Trident and pro equality then the SNP's the party for you (especially if you believe them when they say that they won't be chasing independence any time soon). The Scottish electorate has jumped to the left. OTOH the English voters have goose-stepped to the right.
 
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