UK - Election 2015

[Craig B]

It's already overly-powerful. Too many MPs, too much influence for its size and importance. Clearly no-one down here relishes the prospect of even more power going to Scotland, one of the reasons that Scottish independence has generally been more popular in England than it is in Scotland.

Is that so, that Scottish independence is more popular in England than in Scotland? It is most certainly not true of the political class, which is prepared to stoop to many ruses, and make many concessions, however distasteful, if only it can thereby preserve the Union.

Britain IS the Union. Without it, what would England be? We've heard politicians wanting to renew Trident simply to keep current status in the community of countries. These people could not countenance the loss of Scotland, which would entail an even greater decline than the abandonment of the nuclear deterrent.

And how the French would laugh at the misfortune suffered by la perfide Albion!

 

[Nessie]

If the "Vow" is fulfilled, there will be a "form of devo Max", indeed. But is that what the Westminster establishment wants? They want the UK, but do they want a powerful Scotland?

Norman Tebbit was in the press recently bewailing the creation of the Scottish Parliament, which he said (perhaps accurately) was agreed by Labour simply to stop the independence movement in its tracks once and for all; but in fact it has had if anything the opposite effect.

Would the granting of devo max have a different outcome?

The devo max movement has been shown to be the most powerful. The vote was no for independence and now a resounding yes is coming for the SNP to ensure more powers.

Meanwhile the English have come to realise they should have more regional control over their affairs. That will be based about Westminster and keep them happy. It is also backed by the SNP since unlike Labour they will not be voting on purely English affairs.

The headline is misleading, the voting will only be on affairs which affect Scotland.

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-sturgeon-snp-mps-will-vote-on-english-issues

"And we will make our voices heard, when appropriate, by voting on matters which affect England but which also affect Scotland financially. We will vote on nominally “English” matters at each and every opportunity when Scotland’s national and economic interests are directly affected.

That is not just our policy as a party, it is our duty as democratically elected representatives of constituencies across Scotland which face being profoundly affected by Westminster decisions. As such, it is essential that Scottish MPs – not just those from the SNP – continue to vote on issues affecting all parts of the UK."

 

[MikeG]

Is that so, that Scottish independence is more popular in England than in Scotland?......

It was in 2012.

And 2013

I can't find any polls which show the English preferring the Scots to stay in the Union at a higher rate than the Scots do, but of course, there don't appear to have been any recent polls on the issue.

We're just fed up of the whining.

 

[anglolawyer]

It was in 2012.

And 2013

I can't find any polls which show the English preferring the Scots to stay in the Union at a higher rate than the Scots do, but of course, there don't appear to have been any recent polls on the issue.

We're just fed up of the whining.

Are you speaking for all of 'us'?

 

[MikeG]

.......Britain IS the Union. Without it, what would England be?......

About 12 times what Scotland is. Silly argument.

 

[MikeG]

Are you speaking for all of 'us'?

Sorry. Insert "many of us, it seems" in place of "we". If I had known a lawyer was lurking I would have avoided figures of speech.

 

[Rum]

All this talk about the various permutations in a hung parliament. The Beeb have come up with a 'make your own majority' game on their web site.

Here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32336071

 

[Craig B]

About 12 times what Scotland is. Silly argument.

And you're welcome to it. We do not desire to be any more than for example Norway is. I cite the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath.

May it please you [Pope John XXII] to admonish and exhort the King of the English, who ought to be satisfied with what belongs to him since England used once to be enough for seven kings or more, to leave us Scots in peace, who live in this poor little Scotland, beyond which there is no dwelling-place at all, and covet nothing but our own.

 

[MikeG]

And you're welcome to it.........

It was your argument, not mine. If England is nothing without the Union, by your argument, then Scotland is a twelfth of nothing, which rather makes the argument for sticking together, I'd have thought.

 

[MikeG]

.....I cite the 1320 Declaration of Arbroath.

You would.

 

[Craig B]

It was your argument, not mine. If England is nothing without the Union, by your argument, then Scotland is a twelfth of nothing, which rather makes the argument for sticking together, I'd have thought.

We have no pretensions, and desire no special status in the world. The political establishment in Westminster still seems to hanker after the former status enjoyed by Britain during the period of Empire. We don't even want to be a twelfth of that, but to be what we are, or could be: a small N European democracy.

 

[MikeG]

......The political establishment in Westminster still seems to hanker after the former status enjoyed by Britain during the period of Empire......

I've seen no evidence for that, or anything like that. Have you? In which case, do share.

 

[Craig B]

I've seen no evidence for that, or anything like that. Have you? In which case, do share.

OK.

John McTernan, one of Blair’s special advisers, said - “If we didn’t have Trident we’d be Belgium. Some people would find that a comfortable place to be. I wouldn’t. If Britain is going to be a major power, Britain should have the kinds of weapons a major power has.”

He's has also been adviser to the now Leader of the Labour Party in Scotland.

 

[MikeG]

So, not a politician, only one person, and incidentally a Scot. That's all you've got? I'll remind you that you talked about "The political establishment at Westminster", and the best you can come up with is some guy no-one's ever heard of who doesn't work at Westminster.

 

[ddt]

If the "Vow" is fulfilled, there will be a "form of devo Max", indeed. But is that what the Westminster establishment wants? They want the UK, but do they want a powerful Scotland?

You certainly have the Sun on your side when it comes to Scottish interests. May the Force be with you!

That is, the Scottish edition of the Sun.

The latest, and last, round of Ashcroft polls is also interesting. Jim Murphy might retain his seat due to traditional Tory voters going over to Labour. The Labour voters in Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale & Tweeddale, don't return the favour.

 

[ddt]

It's already overly-powerful. Too many MPs, too much influence for its size and importance.

That has largely been corrected: with the institution of a Scottish Assembly, the number of Scottish MPs has greatly been reduced.

Wikipedia gives these population figures in the 2011 census:
UK: 63,181,775
Scotland: 5,313,600
Purely proportional to population, that would mean 55 out of 650 MPs. There are 59.

 

[LondonJohn]

We have no pretensions, and desire no special status in the world. The political establishment in Westminster still seems to hanker after the former status enjoyed by Britain during the period of Empire. We don't even want to be a twelfth of that, but to be what we are, or could be: a small N European democracy.

Personally, I think that post-election, there should be a referendum in Greater London to create an independent city state. After all, Greater London has a population of over 8 million (way more than Scotland), 74 Westminster constituencies, and over 20% of the current UK's entire economic output. I think that Greater London would be incredibly successful as an independent city state.

Oh wait. That would be a stupid and reductive idea wouldn't it......

 

[Andy_Ross]

If anyone should get independence it should be Yorkshire!

 

[CapelDodger]

Personally, I think that post-election, there should be a referendum in Greater London to create an independent city state. After all, Greater London has a population of over 8 million (way more than Scotland), 74 Westminster constituencies, and over 20% of the current UK's entire economic output. I think that Greater London would be incredibly successful as an independent city state.

Oh wait. That would be a stupid and reductive idea wouldn't it......

I think it's a fine idea. The rest of the country could then get on with its own business without being continually jerked around by the financial sector. This would require the dumping of sterling, of course, but there's the Euro solution to that. So do go ahead. Make our day.

 

[CapelDodger]

If anyone should get independence it should be Yorkshire!

As good a claim as any region, in my opinion.