UK - December 2019 General Election

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Its likely that a new Labour leader will turn up and take the party away from the harder left Corbyn agenda and back towards centre left.

That's not even necessary, though. Corbyn's actual policies were popular. It's Corbyn himself who wasn't.

Here's an article about the popularity of the Labour manifesto policies

As for why people didn't vote Labour: https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1205512933461155841

Leadership (43%)

Their stance on Brexit (17%)

Their economic policies (12%)

Graph with a little more detail embedded in tweet.

The main problem wasn't the Labour party being further to the left than at any time since the 80s, but Corbyn himself.

I think you're right that they probably will move more towards the centre, and you're definitely right that they need a young,charismatic leader who is good at communicating and working the media, but they don't need to move back towards the centre in order to have a chance of succeeding. And, given that the Tory party is further to the right since, well I don't even know when but certainly not in my lifetime, I think it'd be better for the country if they didn't.

 

[Gilbert Syndrome]

I've never really had any kind of interest in Corbyn, I don't think much of him, but I'd have probably voted for the sexually compromised severed pig head that David Cameron spent the night with over the Conservatives or Lib Dems. But hey, Brexit, and all that jazz.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

If you are talking about the 2011 referendum, it was AV and not PR that was rejected. AV is hardly a "crazy, mutated, bloody shambolic mess".

We'll have to disagree on the merits of AV but I think we can both agree it's not PR, and yet that's the answer Tory politicians (and some Labour) give when the Greens or Liberals raise PR is the 'the people rejected it'. No we bloody didn't, we didn't get offered PR, but something that's nothing like it and that no-one was campaigning for (open to being corrected on the latter but I don't recall demands for AV, it's PR people want).

 

[Rolfe]

I remember having this argument on the forum at the time of that referendum with people who said that AV is not PR and could even be worse than FPTP so they weren't going to vote for it. The problem was that if the referendum returned a "no change" result then for the next 50 years we'd be told that we'd had our chance and we'd opted for FPTP.

 

[Darat]

No one is going to be able to take you seriously when your prime minister apparently can't afford to get their hair done, and look like they just climbed out of bed even at black tie events.



What a bunch of degenerates.

That is a deliberate style choice he only has his hair like that when he is on camera or in public. Will be interesting to see he will drop his alter ego now he doesn't need it.

 

[Darat]

I think it's worth pointing out that if you voted Conservative, you're probably a nonce. [emoji106]

Well some are certainly stupid. I have been left dizzy when a woman from Blyth said she voted for "Boris" because they need more money in the north!

I'm from there (literally born a few miles) from Blyth and it is an area that has been starved of resources and government money for decades of Tory rule. Goodness me it is fair to say that Tory governments since the turn of the LAST but one century (1900s) have dumped all over the area and the people.

Ashington, Choppington, Stakeford, Blyth travel up there if you want to see what decades of neglect looks like. And she thinks a Tory government will bring more money into the north.

 

[Vixen]

Well some are certainly stupid. I have been left dizzy when a woman from Blyth said she voted for "Boris" because they need more money in the north!

I'm from there (literally born a few miles) from Blyth and it is an area that has been starved of resources and government money for decades of Tory rule. Goodness me it is fair to say that Tory governments since the turn of the LAST but one century (1900s) have dumped all over the area and the people.

Ashington, Choppington, Stakeford, Blyth travel up there if you want to see what decades of neglect looks like. And she thinks a Tory government will bring more money into the north.

I had a hollow laugh when food bank volunteers were reporting that people attending food banks were declaring, I'm voting for Boris!

 

[Arcade22]

One very important British political trend that is also occurring here in Sweden is that the traditional "workers party" is losing it's support among blue collar workers. Both the Social Democratic Party here in Sweden and the British Labour Party is at serious risk of losing their base of support among the working class that they notionally represent.

Many "working class" voters often dislike immigration, especially of people that compete with them in jobs and who can drive down wages. The problem both parties have is that it's difficult to do something about this without driving away younger voters and those with immigrant background, who are also important source of their political support.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

No one is going to be able to take you seriously when your prime minister apparently can't afford to get their hair done, and look like they just climbed out of bed even at black tie events.

What a bunch of degenerates.

You missed anything involving "morals of an alley cat", is it too late to edit?

 

[The Don]

Well some are certainly stupid. I have been left dizzy when a woman from Blyth said she voted for "Boris" because they need more money in the north!

I'm from there (literally born a few miles) from Blyth and it is an area that has been starved of resources and government money for decades of Tory rule. Goodness me it is fair to say that Tory governments since the turn of the LAST but one century (1900s) have dumped all over the area and the people.

Ashington, Choppington, Stakeford, Blyth travel up there if you want to see what decades of neglect looks like. And she thinks a Tory government will bring more money into the north.

As a recent rummage through Ancestry.com has shown, on my mother's side I'm descended from at least 4 generations of County Durham coal hewers. The success of the Conservatives up there has shocked me, given how Conservative policies have destroyed towns and not even attempted to rebuild them.

It will be a steep learning curve and/or an exercise in denial when the hoped-for regeneration doesn't happen and instead the Tories line their own, and their friends' pockets instead.


....edited to add

Was up that way on a day trip to Lindisfarne on the day after Daddy Don's death. It's beautiful country up there, but in dire need of investment and job opportunities.

 

[dudalb]

One very important British political trend that is also occurring here in Sweden is that the traditional "workers party" is losing it's support among blue collar workers. Both the Social Democratic Party here in Sweden and the British Labour Party is at serious risk of losing their base of support among the working class that they notionally represent.

Many "working class" voters often dislike immigration, especially of people that compete with them in jobs and who can drive down wages. The problem both parties have is that it's difficult to do something about this without driving away younger voters and those with immigrant background, who are also important source of their political support.

Pretty much the same in the US.
One thing is sure:Ranting about what amounts to "Those Stupid Proles" will not fix matters.
George Orwell picked up that a certain class of Left Wingers really have contempt for the working class they claim to support.

 

[dudalb]

So Corbyn will not lead Labor into another general election but is not stepping down as Party Leader?
God, that muddled missage is so perfectly Corbyn.
He needs to go. Now. I think Labor needs to show they reject him as a leader.
The guy just lead Labor into the political equivalent of The Somme offensive, and he still wants to hang around?

 

[The Don]

Pretty much the same in the US.
One thing is sure:Ranting about what amounts to "Those Stupid Proles" will not fix matters.
George Orwell picked up that a certain class of Left Wingers really have contempt for the working class they claim to support.

I guess the question is "what to do?"

Putting the brakes on immigration in the UK won't help. it'll just further depress the economy which is already on its knees.

There have been repeated attempts to train people and suggest that they should take jobs outside their immediate location but this doesn't do well. People want their old jobs in their hometowns back - unfortunately they won't come back.

 

[lionking]

Not a chance.

I grew up under Thatcher and after 1992 thought I'd never live to see anything other than a Tory government.

Things change. Its likely that a new Labour leader will turn up and take the party away from the harder left Corbyn agenda and back towards centre left. If they are charismatic and capable then anything can happen.

I hope you are right, but I think it would take at least two or three elections for this to happen.

 

[dudalb]

But it's not an issue now, is it?

Regardless of 'the will of the people' or other such bollocks, the liar in chief and his handlers have all the parliamentary votes to do just as they please now.

That's what you get with a parliamentary system.....

 

[dudalb]

I hope you are right, but I think it would take at least two or three elections for this to happen.

It depends on what BoJo does after Brexit.

 

[The Don]

So Corbyn will not lead Labor into another general election but is not stepping down as Party Leader?
God, that muddled missage is so perfectly Corbyn.
He needs to go. Now. I think Labor needs to show they reject him as a leader.
The guy just lead Labor into the political equivalent of The Somme offensive, and he still wants to hang around?

The way I see it, Jeremy Corbyn want to stay at the helm long enough to hand over the reins to a hand-picked successor.

The abject failure at the polls is a clear indication that his policies are absolutely on the money. The fewer votes you attract, the less you are pandering to the bourgoisie and hence are ideologically pure.

When you start attracting mass support for your policies, it's clear indication that you are selling out.

 

[dudalb]

Yeah, bitching about how stupid the voters are always solves the problem.

 

[dudalb]

The way I see it, Jeremy Corbyn want to stay at the helm long enough to hand over the reins to a hand-picked successor.

The abject failure at the polls is a clear indication that his policies are absolutely on the money. The fewer votes you attract, the less you are pandering to the bourgoisie and hence are ideologically pure.

When you start attracting mass support for your policies, it's clear indication that you are selling out.

Who cares what the Proles think anyway?

 

[Darat]

So Corbyn will not lead Labor into another general election but is not stepping down as Party Leader?
God, that muddled missage is so perfectly Corbyn.
He needs to go. Now. I think Labor needs to show they reject him as a leader.
The guy just lead Labor into the political equivalent of The Somme offensive, and he still wants to hang around?

Makes no difference now and for the next few years who leads the party. There is no general election until 2024.