Cont: UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[Gord_in_Toronto]

I think we need a working definition of "nut case".
I think he's selling a story that many people "want to believe" (like the famous X-Files poster). Revealing his "secret sources" would make him less believable, not more. As a recent report stated:



We'd find out that the secret sources are all a small group of believers and none of them can actually point to any independently verifiable evidence other than the tales they tell each other.

I suppose we may have. I don't think he is anything but a True Believer. He really does think he is telling the truth.

How others react to or accept his tall tales is another matter.

 

[Axxman300]

I think we need a working definition of "nut case".

I think he's selling a story that many people "want to believe" (like the famous X-Files poster). Revealing his "secret sources" would make him less believable, not more. As a recent report stated:



We'd find out that the secret sources are all a small group of believers and none of them can actually point to any independently verifiable evidence other than the tales they tell each other.

It's one of two things: He's nuts, or he is using his background in MI two screw with a segment of the population, and their elected leaders for personal gain.

In my experience around people who work in intelligence, someone who hints at some fantastic event, but then refuses to provide details, and or evidence because "it's classified" is full of crap. Legit whistle-blowers always have documents, photos, and or video when they go public.

Let's say the US Government does have recovered alien craft under s secret project that dates back to 1947. There have to be millions of pages of reports. There have to be miles of 16mm, and 35mm film stored in film cans stacked on shelves in temperature-controlled warehouses. And there has to be an equal amount of video tapes, and now digital media. So where is it? Those of you who work in or with the government know how much paper is generated each month. Even if these files are on microfilm there still has to be a monstrous amount of storage. And if such a project exists all of that material would be housed in a central location under tight security, at a location fairly close to where back-engineering is conducted.

Nothing has ever leaked. Nobody has ever talked. SOMEBODY ALWAYS TALKS.

We know about the F-117 program in some detail even though they operated in the black for several years. A large-scale attack aircraft squadron with mechanics, and dedicated KC-135 crews did their thing in secret out of Tonopah, NV. But the locals knew something was up. US Army anti-aircraft crews told stories about a plane they couldn't track, but heard fly over in the desert. By 1985 I'd heard about something flying at night out of Nevada, and I just worked in a hobby shop.

Somebody always talks. Yet no one in almost 80 years has ever come forward with details, or pictures, or documents. In the USA, this is impossible.

Elizondo is playing people for suckers.

 

[Apathia]

Oh yeah, right. Next thing you'll be telling us is they show too much WW 2 stuff!

They squeezed the blood out of the Hitler turnip.

 

[Puppycow]

I don't think he is anything but a True Believer. He really does think he is telling the truth.

Elizondo is playing people for suckers.

My own feeling is that the latter is correct. But I'm fine just taking the agnostic position on the question. Whether he actually believes what he is saying, or is cynically selling tall tales that he knows to be false is almost an academic distinction to me. The effect on the public discourse is the same.

I just came across this extremely credulous book review from the Associated Press (and appearing on the ABC News web site):

Book Review: Former Pentagon insider says U.S. unwilling to release all its UFO info

Elizondo became so alarmed at what he was learning about UFOs that the Defense Department refused to disclose to the public that he ultimately resigned his job with the Defense Department so he could go public with much of what he knows about the presence of visitors whose vehicles are far more advanced than what we earthlings have built. Several passages in the book are redacted and Elizondo writes multiple times that he cannot say more about certain subjects.

Here's how his rhetoric works. It's an argument from authority as a former Defense Intelligence official who presumably had access to classified information. That background allows him to suggest that he knows about things that he isn't allowed to talk about. It leaves credulous readers with the impression that what he is able to discuss publicly is merely the tip of an iceberg of evidence for alien visitors. The good stuff is whatever is secret: The part he supposedly isn't allowed to say more about.

Further on in the review:

Meantime, the American people — make that the world — seem to regard the proven-beyond-reasonable-doubt arrival of visitors from far away as news eliciting little more than a shrug.

A Defense Department briefing detailing much more of what it knows might change that. A good starting point might be what happened to the remains of non-human bodies that have been recovered from crash sites.

Apparently the book reviewer thinks that the "arrival of visitors from far away" has been proven beyond reasonable doubt and that "non-human bodies" "have been recovered from crash sites". No further explanation. Smh.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

It's one of two things: He's nuts, or he is using his background in MI two screw with a segment of the population, and their elected leaders for personal gain.

In my experience around people who work in intelligence, someone who hints at some fantastic event, but then refuses to provide details, and or evidence because "it's classified" is full of crap. Legit whistle-blowers always have documents, photos, and or video when they go public.

Let's say the US Government does have recovered alien craft under s secret project that dates back to 1947. There have to be millions of pages of reports. There have to be miles of 16mm, and 35mm film stored in film cans stacked on shelves in temperature-controlled warehouses. And there has to be an equal amount of video tapes, and now digital media. So where is it? Those of you who work in or with the government know how much paper is generated each month. Even if these files are on microfilm there still has to be a monstrous amount of storage. And if such a project exists all of that material would be housed in a central location under tight security, at a location fairly close to where back-engineering is conducted.

Nothing has ever leaked. Nobody has ever talked. SOMEBODY ALWAYS TALKS.
We know about the F-117 program in some detail even though they operated in the black for several years. A large-scale attack aircraft squadron with mechanics, and dedicated KC-135 crews did their thing in secret out of Tonopah, NV. But the locals knew something was up. US Army anti-aircraft crews told stories about a plane they couldn't track, but heard fly over in the desert. By 1985 I'd heard about something flying at night out of Nevada, and I just worked in a hobby shop.

Somebody always talks. Yet no one in almost 80 years has ever come forward with details, or pictures, or documents. In the USA, this is impossible.

Elizondo is playing people for suckers.

Not even Bob Lazar^WP? He's been spinning his easily disprovable fantasies for decades. And has a plethora of believers.

Some people tell their tall tales for so long that they eventually believe them.

 

[Axxman300]

Not even Bob Lazar^WP? He's been spinning his easily disprovable fantasies for decades. And has a plethora of believers.

Some people tell their tall tales for so long that they eventually believe them.

It's been a while, but Bob's been debunked. Probably a few threads here. The problem is his time line.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

It's been a while, but Bob's been debunked. Probably a few threads here. The problem is his time line.

Bob may well have been debunked here and a few other places on the Internet. But let me assure you his stories are alive and well in the world.

There is at least one Toronto Star columnist who is a strong supporter and has staid so in the paper within the last year.

 

[Checkmite]

They squeezed the blood out of the Hitler turnip.

Genuine question: did History Channel ever air a documentary about the Holocaust?

I was never a regular watcher, but I do know they aired docs left and right about the really big tanks and planes the Nazis tried to build - heck there were multiple whole series whose entire premise was "look at all this cool and amazing stuff the Nazis did". But by comparison, does anybody know how often they aired something about Nazi atrocities?

 

[Apathia]

Genuine question: did History Channel ever air a documentary about the Holocaust?

I was never a regular watcher, but I do know they aired docs left and right about the really big tanks and planes the Nazis tried to build - heck there were multiple whole series whose entire premise was "look at all this cool and amazing stuff the Nazis did". But by comparison, does anybody know how often they aired something about Nazi atrocities?

My quick search just now uncovered no direct presentations on he Holocaust.
What's there seems to be all in the background of other Nazi related topics.
There's an episode on Anne Frank. That's about as direct as it gets.

When the History Channel had used up all morbid fasciation with fascists, it turned to the more lucrative sensational topics that have made it the joke it is now.

From 2014 to 2016 I did caregiving for the elderly father of a friend.
The old guy was a constant fan of the History Channel and in conjunction with watching it and his deepening dementia, he became convinced there was an alien base beneath the ridge behind his house.

The salt lamp his daughter put in the master bedroom's bath as a nightlight became whatever color out of space that he thought was from the aliens in the house.

Damn you, History Channel!

 

[steenkh]

Genuine question: did History Channel ever air a documentary about the Holocaust?

I was never a regular watcher, but I do know they aired docs left and right about the really big tanks and planes the Nazis tried to build - heck there were multiple whole series whose entire premise was "look at all this cool and amazing stuff the Nazis did". But by comparison, does anybody know how often they aired something about Nazi atrocities?

You have a valid point, but I must also say that not many of their audience want to watch documentaries about Nazi atrocities. I know they were horrible, and I certainly believe they are lies, but when I sit down to watch something I mainly want to be entertained, and not treated to endless lists of killings, and pictures of executions and gas chambers.

But then, I have watched much of that in my youth.

It does not necessarily mean that the History Channel is anti-Semitic, or pro-Nazi. It simply means that their audience wants to be entertained, and the History Channel is there for entertainment, not primarily enlightenment.

 

[JayUtah]

It does not necessarily mean that the History Channel is anti-Semitic, or pro-Nazi. It simply means that their audience wants to be entertained, and the History Channel is there for entertainment, not primarily enlightenment.

I've mentioned this a few times, but before the History Channel was bought by A&E, I was involved in developing a new series for it called Debunked. It had been green-lighted and we had filmed a pilot. A&E said it was too talking-headsy and cerebral, so we retooled the pilot to include a host (Lewis Black) and a studio audience to amplify the entertainment value. But A&E pulled the plug anyway. That was when we all started calling it the Luftwaffe and Bigfoot Channel.

 

[steenkh]

I've mentioned this a few times, but before the History Channel was bought by A&E, I was involved in developing a new series for it called Debunked. It had been green-lighted and we had filmed a pilot. A&E said it was too talking-headsy and cerebral, so we retooled the pilot to include a host (Lewis Black) and a studio audience to amplify the entertainment value. But A&E pulled the plug anyway. That was when we all started calling it the Luftwaffe and Bigfoot Channel.

Actually, I have only had the chance to watch the History Channel for a short while many years ago when it was introduced in my cable network for a trial period. Too few customers liked it (including me), and it disappeared again.

What I read here is that I have no reason to miss it.

 

[Axxman300]

Genuine question: did History Channel ever air a documentary about the Holocaust?

I was never a regular watcher, but I do know they aired docs left and right about the really big tanks and planes the Nazis tried to build - heck there were multiple whole series whose entire premise was "look at all this cool and amazing stuff the Nazis did". But by comparison, does anybody know how often they aired something about Nazi atrocities?

Yes, before A&E bought the channel, History aired holocaust documentaries, most reruns of classic WWII docs like The World at War. But not on the scale PBS has done. They're an entertainment channel first, history second. Now they're more of a third-rate tabloid-history channel. Instead of exploring the rise and fall of the Incan Empire they ask the bigger question of how much aliens were involved with building their sacred cities.

 

[Axxman300]

Bob may well have been debunked here and a few other places on the Internet. But let me assure you his stories are alive and well in the world.

There is at least one Toronto Star columnist who is a strong supporter and has staid so in the paper within the last year.

There's a new Bob Lazar biopick in the works.

I'm familiar with Lazar, he popped up in my prime UFO-Believer days. I watched the video he sold. I built the Testors model kit of the "Sports Model".

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

]There's a new Bob Lazar biopick in the works.
[/HILITE]
I'm familiar with Lazar, he popped up in my prime UFO-Believer days. I watched the video he sold. I built the Testors model kit of the "Sports Model".

I can't wait Or, maybe I can.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

My own feeling is that the latter is correct. But I'm fine just taking the agnostic position on the question. Whether he actually believes what he is saying, or is cynically selling tall tales that he knows to be false is almost an academic distinction to me. The effect on the public discourse is the same.

I just came across this extremely credulous book review from the Associated Press (and appearing on the ABC News web site):

Book Review: Former Pentagon insider says U.S. unwilling to release all its UFO info



Here's how his rhetoric works. It's an argument from authority as a former Defense Intelligence official who presumably had access to classified information. That background allows him to suggest that he knows about things that he isn't allowed to talk about. It leaves credulous readers with the impression that what he is able to discuss publicly is merely the tip of an iceberg of evidence for alien visitors. The good stuff is whatever is secret: The part he supposedly isn't allowed to say more about.

Further on in the review:


Apparently the book reviewer thinks that the "arrival of visitors from far away" has been proven beyond reasonable doubt and that "non-human bodies" "have been recovered from crash sites". No further explanation. Smh.

My guess is every single word of that "book review" is PR hackery from his publisher.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Yes, before A&E bought the channel, History aired holocaust documentaries, most reruns of classic WWII docs like The World at War. But not on the scale PBS has done. They're an entertainment channel first, history second. Now they're more of a third-rate tabloid-history channel. Instead of exploring the rise and fall of the Incan Empire they ask the bigger question of how much aliens were involved with building their sacred cities.

Of course the tragedy is, that with only slightly more effort and a similar cost, they could do some fantastic and entertaining stuff with real history.

 

[Mike!]

I've mentioned this a few times, but before the History Channel was bought by A&E, I was involved in developing a new series for it called Debunked. It had been green-lighted and we had filmed a pilot. A&E said it was too talking-headsy and cerebral, so we retooled the pilot to include a host (Lewis Black) and a studio audience to amplify the entertainment value. But A&E pulled the plug anyway. That was when we all started calling it the Luftwaffe and Bigfoot Channel.

That'd have been awesome!

 

[Apathia]

Gotta know what to do if Martin The Martian refuses to step out of his saucer, reaches for his blaster in the glove compartment, or blows up the Earth.

Police across US given new UFO handbook as they warn craft 'pose significant safety risks
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...b9e85660459bf63&ei=53#interstitial=1#comments

 

[Solitaire]

I just stick this here.