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Cont: UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

How would you train to recognise alien spaceships?
Your quote purporting to be me, is something I don't believe I said. Anyway, I can respond by saying, a "trained observer" should be someone who is cognisant enough to recognise what is terrestrial, and have reasoned evidence to support that view, ideally from in-depth experience. If we assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, then by definition, nobody can be trained to recognise anything alien.
 
I used to say, "You'll know an alien space craft when you see one." And then I had conversations like this:

Cop: Whoa, check that out!
[Points to bright white object rising from the ground two miles away]
Me: That's an airplane, the airport is over there.
Cop: No, man, that's not an airplane. I doesn't have wings.
Me: That's due to distortion from surf spray rising from the beach, The waves are big today.
Cop: Oh yeah? Why did it just stop in mid air? Look, it's hovering.
Me: No, it turned in our direction.
Cop: That thing is hovering. Weirdest thing I've ever seen.
[Plane closes distance, a Cessna business jet flies directly overhead]
Cop: Oh.

People who believe in alien visitation will think they see alien space craft. Period. I'm not a "trained observer", but I am an aviation enthusiast who builds airplane models, watches every documentary on airplanes and space ships (ours), and looks up every time I hear a powerful jet or turboprop engine. Some nights I can see the lights of antenna on Mt, Umunhum, 60 miles away. Other nights I can't see the lights atop the smoke stacks of the Moss Landing power plant five miles away. The atmosphere is like that, and while I'm not a meteorologist, I understand air conditions will distort objects beyond a certain distance, and so I don't flip out about weird shapes flying around within a standard flight corridor.

I also have learned to listen to people who do know the science behind things. My life is simpler now.
 
I can't remember details of seeing the silver disk when I was a boy, it is too long ago. But what looked like a moving star that I saw in my teens was no insect and as I said, it was in the time of sputnik one. I don't think there were any satellites.
I was walking home from the train in bad weather overnight and part of my walk takes me over a hill that overlooks Passage West across the Lee. Because the weather was bad my glasses were off making my eyesight worse, and the bad weather and darkness also hurt my sight.

At one stage I saw flashing blue and (I thought) red lights. Given my shortsightedness, I thought it was an emergency vehicle across the river on the Passage to Monmstown road responding to a crash. "Oho", I thought to myself "I'll be hearing from a solicitor in a few days", part of my job responding to solicitors writing to the Gardaí for crash details.

Turns out it was my neighbour's dog he was taking out for a walk and who had attached blue and orange (not red) flashing lights to the dog for visibility purposes. My bad eyesight and other factors had fooled my pattern seeking brain into the wrong conclusion.

Moral of the story: it is very easy to fool yourself, even with the best of intentions.
 
So what is the point, you omitted to tell us? If this was a UFO "truther" site, I wouldn't be posting on it.

The title of this thread is "UFO, the Research, the Evidence", I am content with that explanation of the "point", and am happy to comment on all aspects of that.
The thing is, you're like christers, you're trying to get us to accept your assertions withput giving us any evidence and complaining when we don't believe you.

Be happy that you have fooled yourself.
 
Mexico City is in a valley between two mountain ranges and has frequent cloud cover in addition to a smog problem. There are at least one huge and three small airports there. Also a profuse quantity of lights from the ground.

The perfect recipe for the Skywatchers to find a heap of UFO activity almost on a daily basis.
Fed by a tv driven culture that wants your UFO videos (Jaime Maussan) it's an industry by now.

It keeps some of them busy not doing anything worse at least.
 
Your quote purporting to be me, is something I don't believe I said. Anyway, I can respond by saying, a "trained observer" should be someone who is cognisant enough to recognise what is terrestrial, and have reasoned evidence to support that view, ideally from in-depth experience. If we assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, then by definition, nobody can be trained to recognise anything alien.
There's no such thing as a trained observer, in the sense necessary to satisfy ETFO claims. Airline pilots are not actually trained to properly categorize objects without adequate size and distance cues. Military pilots are not actually trained to categorize objects without adequate size and distance cues. Nor are radar operators, bird watchers, or governors(!).

Well, American state governors are not so trained. Maybe crown governors-general receive additional training in certain esoteric disciplines. I don't know.
 
Moral of the story: it is very easy to fool yourself, even with the best of intentions.
I saw two insects buzzing above me outside my apartment once. They must've been illuminated by artificial light, because they appeared to as two specks of light in the air, so to say. I couldn't tell how close they were, so I couldn't decide if they were insects or drones. Had I not been in the middle of a city, I'd possibly actually have wondered if I was seeing UFOs (I expect flying saucers over Norway's second largest city would cause some headlines, but of course there were none).
 
There's no such thing as a trained observer, in the sense necessary to satisfy ETFO claims. Airline pilots are not actually trained to properly categorize objects without adequate size and distance cues. Military pilots are not actually trained to categorize objects without adequate size and distance cues. Nor are radar operators, bird watchers, or governors(!).

Well, American state governors are not so trained. Maybe crown governors-general receive additional training in certain esoteric disciplines. I don't know.
This what I actually said before in my previous post, and below I am enlarging on that comment:

"If we assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, then by definition, nobody can be trained to recognise anything alien."

I think we are getting tied up here with semantics and loose definitions. Since time immemorial, claims of UFO sightings have been supported by the term "trained observer". when those reports are made, and the claimants along with readers of them, haven't a clue what that term really means, and and assumptions are casually made because the observer happens to be some kind of recognised technical official, scientist, or some other category of profession where that claim might rationally stick. There are clearly some activities, where "observers" are trained either formally or informally through training or experience, like army snipers, bird watchers, or animal photographers. etc, etc, compared to the ordinary man/woman in the street, but there are no UFO "trained observers", professional or otherwise, in my view. Can we now put this one to bed, without any unnecessary hysterical debunking reaction, from the likes of GF.
 
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The Wiki article brushes aside claims that observers of the flying objects said they hovered without sound. One quote is that some airmen heard a low hum. Helicopters do not make a low hum they make one hell of a noise.
When I lived semirurally I was on the flight path between the local hospital and the ski fields. When the gas turbine powered rescue helicopter passed overhead, I would definitely have described that sound as a "low hum". The first time I heard it I couldn't work out what the hell it was. It certainly didn't sound like what I expected a helicopter to sound like. It was only when I actually saw the aircraft (not easy because those things are damn fast) that I realised what the sound had been.
 
Are there any UFO reports made by professional astronomers at all? (I exclude amateur astronomers because I have met some who identified Venus as a star)
 
Are there any UFO reports made by professional astronomers at all? (I exclude amateur astronomers because I have met some who identified Venus as a star)
Here's what Phil Plait has to say about astronomers (not) seeing UFOs.

 
The bottom line as of now is there has been zero evidence presented of alien craft flying inside or outside earth's atmosphere. Many allegations presented by professional scam artists in Congressional hearings, none of which have been supported with anything resembling facts.
 
This what I actually said before in my previous post, and below I am enlarging on that comment:

"If we assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, then by definition, nobody can be trained to recognise anything alien."

I think we are getting tied up here with semantics and loose definitions. Since time immemorial, claims of UFO sightings have been supported by the term "trained observer". when those reports are made, and the claimants along with readers of them, haven't a clue what that term really means, and and assumptions are casually made because the observer happens to be some kind of recognised technical official, scientist, or some other category of profession where that claim might rationally stick. There are clearly some activities, where "observers" are trained either formally or informally through training or experience, like army snipers, bird watchers, or animal photographers. etc, etc, compared to the ordinary man/woman in the street, but there are no UFO "trained observers", professional or otherwise, in my view. Can we now put this one to bed, without any unnecessary hysterical debunking reaction, from the likes of GF.
The only hysteria is coming from you.
 
I didn't get to finish my jump rope song.

Burma haircut
Burma Shave
Go kiss Lulu
If yer so brave
Kisser inna schoolhouse
Kisser right in class
If she likes it
Kisser on her
Yass yass yass yass yass yass!

[faster & faster until the jumper trips & falls on his noggin. then he'll see a UFO. betcha anything.]
 
This what I actually said before in my previous post, and below I am enlarging on that comment:

"If we assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, then by definition, nobody can be trained to recognise anything alien."
You misunderstand me. Nobody can be trained to recognize anything mundane, without adequate size and distance cues.

The alien hypothesis arises from the claim, "it didn't look mundane to me". It begs the question that the observer is competent to distinguish mundane objects from alien objects. But we know this isn't the case. We know that even "trained observers" aren't competent to recognize mundane objects in a range of well-understood and commonplace scenarios.

We don't have to assert that there has never been anything extra-terrestrial in our skies, to assert that we can't even train observers to correctly identify mundane things in all circumstances.

And what you say is silly anyway. Even if we assert that there's been extra-terrestrial things in our skies, we still can't train anybody, since we don't have a specimen to train them on.
 
Another 'UFO' from me.

I was woken one night, hearing a very strange sound. It sounded like two helicopters (I could hear 'beats' over the top of rotor noise) with loud jet engines. It was in the low cloud cover above my house, and I could occasionally see the glow of lights.

I went back to bed, grumbling about the nearby airport, whose controllers seem to delight in telling helicopters to keep station at five hundred feet above my roof.

Annoyed by this experience, I told my brother about it the next day, and we couldn't work out what I'd heard. We tentatively concluded that it must have been one of the local helicopters, and maybe I was hearing the sounds reflected off clouds and buildings nearby.

About two weeks later, I heard all this again, while on the phone to my brother, so we both fired up FlightRadar24 to see who was rattling my plates. On FR24 it showed up with the symbol for a passenger jet, but, once I clicked on the icon, it revealed that it was a Boeing CH-47 Chinook, in firefighting mode, that had been temporarily rented to South Australia.

Neither of us had any idea that there were still Chinooks in service anywhere.
 
And what you say is silly anyway. Even if we assert that there's been extra-terrestrial things in our skies, we still can't train anybody, since we don't have a specimen to train them on.
Which is exactly what I said and the point I made, and you have only used a slightly different wording at the end of your post to confirm my view. I cannot understand why some on here react in the way you just have. I think it must be years of sceptic thinking mode that sometimes expresses itself instinctively, before taking in the detail behind the meaning of other's posts and responses.

I joined this forum having had a background in technology and sociology, both degree courses that changed my life and thinking forever. It was a force for scepticism, and taught me how to challenge misrepresented statistics and how we are influenced by peer pressure and other human frailties evident in social contact. So I entered this site, already a sceptic, and its content has reinforced my scepticism as you would expect, so why do some on here think I am trying to taint objectivity in some way? I am interested mainly in human reaction and behaviour when it comes to paranormal claims, and try and understand why these claims are made in the first place and in the way that they are. I don't post on here that often, so please be assured that when I do, I am not challenging the site's doctrine, and among other things, enjoy exploring the patterns of thoughts and attitudes when comments are made. I find this equally as interesting as the subject matter itself, as I am sure many others do on here.
 

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