Cont: UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

[JimOfAllTrades]

I Googled Scorpion's Ray Bowyer pilot report and picked up a video of him being questioned by several different interviewers on various TV channels.


The UFO was described in the headlines at the time that the object was "gigantic" and a "mile long". However, during the interview the pilot stated that the object was around 40 to 50 miles away and so he qualified the size estimate when prompted and simply said that it must have been large. However, the sighting was interesting and so was the description of the object. A second object was also seen in the area by a different pilot at the same time, and both were seen on radar. Both of these objects said the pilot, should not have been in an air controlled area. In conclusion, all we can say in my view, is that these kind of sightings although unusual and sometimes disturbing, can never really be explained in a definitive way. Only suggestions can be made as an
alternative to alien technology, and frankly in this case at least with so little physical evidence, can anything be proven.

The point isn't to provide alternative explanations for alien technology,
alien technology is the alternate explanation until all the other more mundane explanations have been ruled out. If you can't do that, then aliens should never even come up. "We don't know" is an acceptable answer.

 

[JimOfAllTrades]

It was not a helicopter, I am sure of that. It was soundless and had no lights, other that what I assume was the sun reflecting from it.

This is tired old stuff debunked long ago. It could have been a helicopter. At 4000 or 5000 feet AGL they can be very quiet, and your "assume it was the sun" light could have been just a light on the object. No evidence means the best answer is "I don't know", and unexplained to you does not mean unexplainable or even unexplained to anyone else.

 

[sackett]

Ufoologists strike me like JFK conspiracists: They've been around so long that I want to (wearily) ask them, Okay, so what now? Your aliens are as boring as the grassy knoll. They never do a damn thing. If they're the best & brightest the universe can come up with, then ◊◊◊◊ 'em, let's go bowling.

Well, that's what I *would* to say to 'em. If I ever got the chance.

 

[Lithrael]

The plaintiff in a rear-end collision generally wants to prove that the driver behind (presumably the defendant) was following too closely.

Around here you're always at fault for that, cause you're supposed to be able to stop in time even when the guy in front of you, for example, has just had his car unexpectedly stopped by an entire deer.

Point taken anyways!

 

[Darat]

And we can't always draw a conclusion so in the end we may have to simply say "I don't know".

 

[EHocking]

As JayUtah has pointed out, if the pilot didn't know what he was looking at he had no way of estimating either its size or its distance - it could have been big and far away, or small and close.

 

[JayUtah]

Around here you're always at fault for that, cause you're supposed to be able to stop in time even when the guy in front of you, for example, has just had his car unexpectedly stopped by an entire deer.

Point taken anyways!

It's generally the case that a rear-end collision is strictly the fault of the following driver. However, when it comes down to a jury award for damages, such things factor in. "I was following ten car lengths behind," is seen as less negligible than, "I was drinking tea off his trunk/boot lid."

But yes, the point is that humans are really, really bad at estimating distances beyond a very close proximity. Apropos of highways, a study was done asking drivers how long they thought the dashes were on U.S. highways. The estimates came in at around two feet. They are, in fact, ten feet long, with 30-foot spaces in between them.

 

[Axxman300]

Need to say this one more time. I was an active UFO believer, I had all the books, I listened to Art Bell nightly, I rented all the videos, and I attended a monthly UFO discussion group in town for around four years. I'm also a semi-active ghost-hunter.

This current round of UFO/UAP bruhaha is horse apples. Crap-ola. BS.

Nothing but repackaged lies lead by a former Gitmo torturer who is (apparently) skilled at manipulating people. These lies are the ones I bought into throughout the 1990s:
1. Revelation of the US Government's UFO program is right around the corner.
2. The US Government has recovered alien craft, and bodies of the occupants.
3. The Government is suppressing the truth.

The difference between the 1990s and today is we had Wikileaks, Bradley Manning, and Edward Snowden. These two clowns leaked truckloads of classified files from all across the board, and today anyone can read them. These were sensitive files dealing with an ongoing war, and as such put special operations forces in jeopardy. To this date both Manning and Snowden are alive an well. Snowden might even get a pardon under our new regime. Point being, neither man was assassinated by the darkest forces of the US military whom they compromised. So where is the risk of coming forward about UFO/UAPs?

Seriously, where are the Snowdens and Mannings of the Government UFO program?

If we have recovered alien craft, where are they? Name that location. Name the team of scientists working on the back-engineering. They must be getting a paycheck from somewhere. What are the project's code names?

This whole thing is stupid. Not for lack of trying, but the UFO community has never been interested in facts, nor science. Looking at blurry smartphone video is like porn to them. Not once will they seriously investigate a sighting, just run with it. I'm happy I walked away from that circus twenty years ago.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I am still reading the book UFOs and will not finish it for a couple of days. I will consider criticism of it then. Meantime I want to mention two times in my life I have seen something unexplained.
The first was when I was in junior school and I was in the playground during a break. I cannot remember how old I was but I was probably under ten years old. I looked up and saw what appeared to be a silver disk hovering directly overhead. From below a weather balloon might look like a disk, but I had the impression it was round metallic and silver. I cannot remember what happened, because I think I was called in from the playground. I remember wanting to keep watching it but I don't think I was allowed to.

So this whatever-it-was appeared in broad daylight and hovered over a school playground- and you were the only person to notice it? Hardly a credible claim. Did no-one else in that area- and presumably, as it has a school, you were in some kind of built-up area- report seeing anything similar? If not, have you considered the possibility that you misidentified something?

The second time, is an event I have already posted somewhere on the forum. I was in the garden on a clear night looking for sputnik one when it was due to pass overhead in Kent. While looking for the sputnik I noticed what looked like a faint star was moving along in relation to the stars around it. It was moving very slowly and then it stopped moving and stayed still for a minute or two. Then it started moving again. Then it stopped again for a similar amount of time, and it did this several times until disappearing from view. Soon after that Sputnik one appeared and it rose from the horizon in a continuous movement. It was brighter than the moving star object and it soon passed overhead and disappeared from view.

Souns like you saw an insect, to me. How were you able to estimate the size and distance of this object?

I still wonder what it was that I saw as in those days there was not supposed to be anything else up there except the sputnik. It was not a helicopter, I am sure of that. It was soundless and had no lights, other that what I assume was the sun reflecting from it.

Are you privy to all approved flight plans, plus military flights and also the paths of overhead satellites, in your area? I assume not, in which case I have to ask, how do you know there was 'not supposed to be anything else up there'?

 

[Pixel42]

I suspect a lot of UFO reports are down to people assuming that what they're looking at is an aircraft-sized object at a typical aircraft distance, but which is actually something much smaller much closer. Party balloons, sky lanterns ...

There was a sighting we discussed here many moons ago which was reported as a craft doing impossible maneuvers over a distant lake, which we eventually worked out was almost certainly a firefly doing its mating dance a few metres away.

 

[Explorer]

The point isn't to provide alternative explanations for alien technology,
alien technology is the alternate explanation until all the other more mundane explanations have been ruled out. If you can't do that, then aliens should never even come up. "We don't know" is an acceptable answer.

Surely the point is, at least as far as this forum is concerned, is to comment on other claims that refer to alien technology as a first resort, and which my post was addressing, and not pedantry stating the obvious.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

That sounds rather like a book rehashing the various famous UFO stories which have been exhaustively and amusingly debunked here over the years. No matter how often these stories are picked apart and shown to have no worthwhile substance it doesn't prevent some enthusiast from publishing yet another book repeating them all again.

I have a suspicion that if you were to describe any one of the tales from the book we'd be able to find a thread somewhere around here where it was previously considered.

Kean has been a regular guest on Coast to Coast since the 2000s. She's also the idiot that brought David "people I can't reveal told me that other people have told them" Grusch to prominence.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

I Googled Scorpion's Ray Bowyer pilot report and picked up a video of him being questioned by several different interviewers on various TV channels.


The UFO was described in the headlines at the time that the object was "gigantic" and a "mile long". However, during the interview the pilot stated that the object was around 40 to 50 miles away and so he qualified the size estimate when prompted and simply said that it must have been large. However, the sighting was interesting and so was the description of the object. A second object was also seen in the area by a different pilot at the same time, and both were seen on radar. Both of these objects said the pilot, should not have been in an air controlled area. In conclusion, all we can say in my view, is that these kind of sightings although unusual and sometimes disturbing, can never really be explained in a definitive way. Only suggestions can be made as an alternative to alien technology, and frankly in this case at least with so little physical evidence, can anything be proven.

The thing is, for sightings like this one, there are many mundane explanations that are far more probable than "aliensdidit", up to and including the pilot made a horrifically bad guess because he's far more confident of his abilities to judge distance and size than he should be.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Surely the point is, at least as far as this forum is concerned, is to comment on other claims that refer to alien technology as a first resort, and which my post was addressing, and not pedantry stating the obvious.

No blindly accepting the least likely explanation of an event isn't the point. This is not a UFO truther site after all.

 

[JayUtah]

Kean has been a regular guest on Coast to Coast since the 2000s. She's also the idiot that brought David "people I can't reveal told me that other people have told them" Grusch to prominence.

On paper, Kean is a "UFO agnostic." Her jury may be out on what UFOs could be, but she's clearly a UFO capitalist. Grusch is just one of her latest efforts to fleece the flock according to the tried-and-true, "Reliable observers can't be easily dismissed," ploy.

 

[welshdean]

The thing is 'reliable observers' of the night sky, i.e. astronomers, don't report UAPs. I wonder why.

 

[Axxman300]

This is off Greenstreet's Twitter feed as he covers the House UAP hearings today:

Did Congresswoman Nancy Mace and journalist Michael Shellenberger misrepresent UFO "evidence" presented to Congress?At the "UFO hearing", Mace presented a document "from the Pentagon" that she says she got from Shellenberger.But several witnesses say that's not true.They instead claim:• UFO celebrity Jeremy Corbell pulled a document from his backpack• Corbell hands this dubious document, which has a cover letter written and signed by Corbell, to a "Congressional aide"

During the hearing, Mace presents the document WITHOUT Corbell's signed cover letter and says it's "from the Pentagon" and that she got it from journalist Michael Shellenberger

Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856802568371949766

Shellenberger tweets the document saying it came "from a whistleblower and released today by Nancy Mace". The tweet currently has over 2 million views

Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856773415983820802

I'm won't waste time pointing out this is in no way an official government document of any kind. But it gets better...

UFO advocates tweet Corbell's missing cover letter

Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857117947258413463

I think we can identify these objects now. They're of Graft Zeppelin-Class. Lying sacks of doodoo.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The thing is 'reliable observers' of the night sky, i.e. astronomers, don't report UAPs. I wonder why.

Plus about 18,000 meteorological observing stations around the world that report on what is seen in the sky every hour, 24 hours a day. At one time the stations were all manned with a physical human being but some are now automated.

They don't see any UAPs either.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

This is off Greenstreet's Twitter feed as he covers the House UAP hearings today:




Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856802568371949766

Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1856773415983820802

I'm won't waste time pointing out this is in no way an official government document of any kind. But it gets better...



Link:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1857117947258413463

I think we can identify these objects now. They're of Graft Zeppelin-Class. Lying sacks of doodoo.

If the issue were really this important, what with the future of the planet a sake, do the brave thing and just tell us for God's sake. Surely every minute of our ignorance leads us deeper into peril?

 

[theprestige]

Plus about 18,000 meteorological observing stations around the world that report on what is seen in the sky every hour, 24 hours a day. At one time the stations were all manned with a physical human being but some are now automated.

They don't see any UAPs either.

What meteorological observing stations are you referring to?

As far as I know, meteorological stations aren't particularly well equipped to correlate radar and visual contacts across a substantial arc of the sky.