An example of what I meant in my previous post (which I can't edit because of moderated thread) is this link above. There are in fact some official sources listed at the bottom of the page but the only mention of UFO's is in the last one where it says:
Rumours of Unidentified Flying Objects (UFO) around the area of Echo Flight during the time of fault were disproven..
Any comments?
Okay, let’s start with that statement and see where it leads us.
We seem to have one primary witness who “broke” the story – Robert Salas. Let’s assume he is not telling the truth. Where else can we go?
Officially we know that 10 Echo Flight Minuteman missiles were inexplicably “lost” (went into an inoperable status) (
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/sacmsg.htm)
Officially we know also (as above) that UFOs were somehow rumoured to be involved but that those rumours were (somehow) “disproven” (
http://www.cufon.org/cufon/malmstrom/page38.htm).
…but Robert Salas could not have been the only other person involved – so who else is there that could confirm/deny his UFO story? Leaving out for the moment anyone directly mentioned by Salas (assuming he is an unreliable witness) it seems some attention and controversy has centred around a certain Col. Walter Figel (ret.) who was one of the missile launch officers on duty at Echo that day. Apparently he gave taped interviews confirming reports of UFOs as follows (in part):
“Then when the first [missile] went down, and I talked to the security [team] out there, they reported this UFO hovering over the site. I said, “Yeah, right. What have you guys been drinking out there?” And we [sent] Strike teams to both of the sites that had been occupied.”
…and:
“Well, I [reportedly] had them hovering over the sites, you know, and I said, “Right, I’m not a believer in that crap!” And that was reported over the secure line, and I told those guys to make no transmissions and, when the Strike Team got out there—they were on VHF back to me—and they had no idea in the world what I even told them to look for, and they reported them [too].”
(
http://www.theufochronicles.com/2010/09/echooscar-witch-hunt.html).
Apparently later, Figel recanted. According to a Reality Uncovered blog:
“I admit to being a bit frustrated with Mr. Figel. Despite his recent comments clarifying the matter to James, it’s clear what he was saying to Hastings and Salas according to those recordings…”
But that:
“Robert Hastings and Robert Salas sure don’t want anyone to know what Walter Figel is now saying.”
(
http://www.realityuncovered.net/blog/)
So what
is Figel now saying?
The first substantial point he makes is to deny Salas’ involvement in Echo Flight at the time. Okay, we are already assuming Salas is an unreliable witness. Second he denies the involvement of other flight’s missiles (Oscar and November). Okay – we are interested in Echo flight. Third he affirms his non-belief in UFOs. Fine, he’s a non-believer and he firmly stated that in his original taped testimony.
So far there is nothing in this that actually contradicts his original taped testimony indicating the involvement of UFOs.
He next talks about the log that he must have written at the time.
“I would think that if I wrote something like that in the log, there would be… (copies, classified, released with SAC messages and base reports with any UFO references included) ”
Notice here Figel is
not actually denying he wrote any UFO references into his log – he is merely speculating that
if he did, then that(those) reference(s) should have been released in the normal course of events. But of course this was far from a normal event and given the USAF track record in this area, Figel’s speculative conclusion in this regard is
far from certain.
Fifth, Figel contend’s that he was “underwhelmed” at the time. Really? How can this be true? Ten missiles under his command enter a “no-go” status in rapid succession and he is “underwhelmed”? Even if we suppose no UFO involvement whatsoever, his self-reported response here is simply not believable.
Figel then makes some more general comments that cast doubt on the details of Salas’ story. Okay…we are accepting (for the moment at least) Salas to be an unreliable witness.
The bottom line is that nothing Figal stated above actually contradicts his original taped testimony! What we are left with is one unreliable witness (Salas) - who admits his memory of the details are possibly faulty - and one supposedly reliable witness who confirms reports of the involvement of UFOs and also confirms that Salas’ memory of the details might be in error. Critically Figel does not deny the substance of the case: That ten Echo Flight minutemen missiles went into “no-go” status in rapid succession and that there were reports of UFO involvement.
Next Reality Uncovered contacted Capt. Eric Carlson (ret.). There is some confusion about whether Carlson was actually at Oscar or Echo Flight at the time of the incident – but let’s assume for a moment he was at Echo with Figel.
First Carlson denies any (UFO) reports were “called in”. But note that Figel stated that he (Figel)
called out to the security team and was told about the UFOs over a “secure line”. So Carlson could be telling the truth, no calls
in with UFO information, but calls
out could (and obviously according to Figel
did) obtain those reports.
Carlson reiterates:
“There was no call, at any time, telling us about any UFOs.”. Okay, we know, no inbound call informing of UFOs. Very neat sidestep.
Carlson’s interview testimony then goes on to confirm that the Echo Flight missiles did indeed malfunction, that there were no reports “at the time” of Oscar Flight missiles doing the same and that “I do not believe Lt Figel nor I had any emotional reaction other than perhaps surprise.”
Carlson states:
“At no time were UFOs mentioned to me.” But this was
subsequent to the incident – in other words no-one mentioned UFOs to him at social (or other) gatherings
after the event. This rings true, if he like Figel made their denial of UFOs plain at the time, then no-one
would bring it up to them subsequently.
Carlson also states:
“I have never had any discussion with security personnel regarding UFOs.” But this was
at the time and as we know, it was
Figel who obtained that information from the security personnel.
The Carlson states:
“I am sure that if Figel had any discussions with security personnel about UFOs that he would have mentioned it to me”. Maybe, maybe not, we cannot be certain on that score – it is certainly possible Figel did not mention UFOs to Carlson.
Tellingly, when given free reign to express his opinion Carlson states:
“I was contacted by both Salas and Hastings and would neither confirm or deny anything they told me.”. Why not? A simple denial of their story would have been easy to make, especially if he truly wanted to set the record straight. A simple “I will not confirm (anything you say)” would be sufficient. So what is Carlson’s excuse for not doing so?
“I really didn’t want to get involved in a pissing contest with either. “
What “pissing contest”? Carlson could have simply denied Salas’ story and subsequently stated to any interested party that his comments were now on the record and he has no further comment to make.
Not satisfied with Carlson’s equivocation (and who would be?) Reality Uncovered pressed on to obtain another statement from Carlson on the matter (via Carlson’s son).
Carlson’s key points in that further statement were basically to riterate his earlier statements - That when he was contacted by Salas and Hastings he
“denied knowledge of any UFOs at Malmstrom”. But this is in direct contradiction to his earlier statements that he would “neither confirm nor deny” the story to those gentlemen when he was contacted by them.
In that further statement he also tells us that he told Salas and Hastings that
“there was no, repeat no, incident at Oscar flight”. Sure, but we are accepting Salas as unreliable…
Finally:
“My memory is quite good regarding the events at Malmstrom and there is no doubt in my mind that there were no reports of UFO’s and no incident at Oscar flight.” Well, his memory of what he told Salas and Hastings changed substantially between the first and second telling... “no doubt in his mind”? Possibly now there really is none.
Still not satisfied (and there is not a lot to be satisfied with so far) Reality Uncovered now goes back to Figel (via Carlson’s son again). Figel responded that he was not a
“fan of Salas, Hastings, or the whole UFO crowd” (well of course, he does not
believe in UFOs!); Figel has
“never seen one and flatly don’t believe they exist at all (well we
know that much at least), Figel also has
“read both of their books” and
“There are many inaccurate statements and events in the books” (sure, that much is obvious as well, but this does not deny the
substance of the incident - that ten Echo Flight missiles malfunctioned and that UFOs were, by his own admission, reportedly involved). Figel then confirms that
“Oscar flight NEVER had any problems and Salas was NEVER involved in any of them at all”[/I ( Sure and we are accepting Salas as unreliable…).
Reality Uncovered, still not satisfied, needs more (because nothing said so far actually constitutes a direct refutation of reported UFO involvement – both Carlson and Figel seem to be dancing around the issue).
So, Carlson’s son obtains another statement from Figel.
Figel now states that “I personally never did see a UFO at any time” (well sure, no-one is claiming he did!)
And: “I do not personally “believe” that UFOs had anything to do with Echo flight shutting down that year.” (Well sure, he can maintain that “belief’, but that doees not deny the reported UFO involvement – note also that Figel places “believe” in quotation marks…)
Figel then makes a number of statements denying the involvement of Oscar or November Flights. (Sure, Salas admitted his memory might be faulty)
Figel then denies he kept a “personal log”, only the “official log”, but that “Obviously I can not remember what I wrote that morning.” (Ah, I see, he cannot remember what he wrote in the log – now Figel’s memory is becoming unreliable too!)
Figel then makes a very, very interesting statement in reference to Carlson:
“I told him that when someone mentioned UFOs, I just laughed it off as a joke and assumed someone was just kidding around. I never took it seriously.”
…but Carlson flat out, point blank, denied that anyone mentioned UFOs to him! Huh, who’s telling the truth here?
This also confirms that Figel was informed about the UFOs! He just “assumed” they were kidding and “never took it seriously”.
Figel also states:
When your dad and I came topside the next day – no one ever said anything about UFOs and there was no “large gathering” of people on site that morning.
There may have been later that afternoon, but I would have no knowledge of that as we were long gone back to the base as usual.”
This seems to be a rather disingenuous statement. First if there was no-one about when they came “topside” then of course noone said anything about UFOs at that time (and of course given that Figel made it perfectly plain to the topside security guys in the phone call that he did not believe in such things – any of them still about would be disinclined to mention UFOs to his face at that time) . Yet “There may have been later that afternoon” but “but I would have no knowledge of that”. Strange. Why “may have been” if he has “no knowledge”? If he truly had no knowledge, then he would not have even been able to mentioned it!
Figel then goes on to some minor details but then claims:
“In addition, that was 43 years ago and memories fail – especially about things that were not especially important to me at the time.”
So on the one hand he refutes specific details of Salas story, supposedly having a good memory of those details, yet at the same time claims that his own memory might be faulty!
…and why this constant referral back to the event as “not especially important to me at the time.” This was a refrain from Carlson too. I simply don’t believe this. Why mention it at all? The loss of ten missiles was not an important event? Especially as Figel and Carlson were the commanding officers at the time. They would have been interviewed by their own command extensively - and must have provided information to all the investigations that we know took place. This would have been an important and unusual event in their careers – it is sounding more like that they were perhaps told to play it down?
So what are we left with?
Salas as perhaps an unreliable witness but his story (ten Echo Flight minutemen missiles malfunctioned with reported UFO involvement) is supported by Figel and not directly refuted by Carlson.
So Jocce, those are my comments. Any from you?
