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UFOs: The Research, the Evidence

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We can see immediately that the witness' drawings are CLEARLY NOT "shaped like a blimp" at all!
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=427&pictureid=2752[/qimg]

My eyes must work different from yours then, what you just posted is that the Blimp looks very much like the UFO. With all the other evidence so far presented about Blimps in the area I'd say thats case closed, Rogue River is clearly a blimp, no matter how much you want to believe it isn't
:p
 
So, it is your contention that because they used binoculars, it would be impossible for them to make a mistake in perception? Exactly what scientific papers/studies can you present that demonstrate this is true.

On the other hand I can present numerous cases where experienced astronomers have made errors in perception after carefully observing an object through a telescope. Read "Planets and perception" by Dobbins and Sheehan for numerous examples. Of course, the one that stands out in that book are the canals on Mars. Not only did Lowell see canals but others did as well. It was the consensus that these canals did exist at the time. Of course, we now know this was an error in perception. I can also point towards an article that appeared in Sky and Telescope a few years back called "The egg moons of Jupiter" by the same authors. In that case, William Pickering stated his observations of Jupiter's moons were not circular but oblong ("egg shaped"). The authors suggested his optics were not properly aligned but Pickering stood by his claim for many years indicating he convinced himself this was the case. With the evidence of how astronomers can make errors in perception using their optical instruments which are on stable platforms and are sustained observations lasting hours, how can you actually state that a few people on a rocking boat with a pair of binoculars could not mistake a plane or blimp for a circular disc? Feel free to present ACTUAL evidence that shows that this is impossible.

How many times are you going to repeat this lie of yours that I contend 100% witness accuracy? I have consistently (and many times in direct reply to your posts) stated that the witnesses CAN be, and in some instances WERE, mistaken (and I did so in my LAST post to you!). I have also pointed out to you, in the Rogue River case, precisely WHERE they were mistaken. Lying about my position while everyone else (including you) has seen my (numerous) posts on the matter is just utterly bizarre.

You also lie when you state “It was the consensus that these canals did exist at the time.” Proof? For example:
”Many astronomers could not see these markings, and few believed that they were as extensive as Lowell claimed. As a result, Lowell and his observatory were largely ostracized. Although the consensus was that some actual features did exist which would account for these markings…” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percival_Lowell)​

So there simply WAS NO consensus at the time that “that these canals did exist”. And being who you are, you would have KNOWN that! Moreover, the difficulty involved in viewing objects such as planets (or moons) with enough clarity to “prove” Lowell incorrect (or even accurately distinguish even large features) is shown by the following statement:
“The existence of canal-like features would not be definitively disproved until Mariner 4 took the first close-up pictures of Mars in 1965, and Mariner 9 orbited and mapped the planet in 1972.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percival_Lowell)​

More: The earth is NOT exactly a “stable platform” when it comes to viewing distant objects like planets (or moons of other planets). For example, there is the motion of the earth to contend with - which requires a telescope to be continually moved in order to track such objects.

As for the observations of “egg” shaped moons of Jupiter by Pickering (I presume you mean William Henry, 1858 – 1938 – and like a true pseudo-scientist bent on obscuring rather than illuminating you do NOT provide a clarifying reference – for as a supposedly knowledgeable amateur astronomer you would certainly be aware that there exists another William H Pickering – 1910–2004 - in astronomy and another also with the surname Pickering), are you seriously contending that attempting to make accurate observations of the moons of Jupiter around the turn of the last century actually equates with viewing a relatively close object with the aid of binoculars?

Certainly astronomers can and do get it wrong when they are viewing distant, relatively small astronomical objects from an unstable platform (the earth) through the entire thickness of the atmosphere – especially in the early part of last century (!) – but to equate that with the viewing of a relatively close object on a clear day with the positive aid of binoculars would seem to be the height of disingenuousness.
 
Then our opinions differ.
Unfortunately for you it is NOT a matter of “opinion”.

You stated:
“So the complete turn wasn't seen through binoculars.”

Mr B stated:
”As I put the glasses on it, made a turn to the south, with no banking or leaning"

– meaning of course that the turn WAS seen by Mr B!

Unbiased by the opinion of others, they look blimp shaped. Deal with it.
The witness drawings ONLY look “blimp shaped” IF you have a confirmation bias toward “blimp”. Otherwise the drawings do NOT match the shape of the blimp in question (Goodyear K-class) at all!
Below is a K-class blimp (the class of Goodyear blimp that was around in 1949) overlayed on the witness’ drawings. We can see immediately that the witness' drawings are CLEARLY NOT "shaped like a blimp" at all!
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=427&pictureid=2752[/qimg]
Deal with it.

Sorry, my mistake. How do you conclude that these two guys are familiar enough with planes, blimps etc?
Well, they worked for the Ames Research Laboratory for a start! (From SR14): “An employee in the supersonic laboratory of an aeronautical laboratory and some other employees of this lab.” From (http://www.brumac.8k.com/Rogue/RogueRiver2.htm): Mr B “worked in the Drafting Section of the National Advisory Committee, Ames Laboratory, Moffett Field.” and Mr C was “… a mechanic who worked on a supersonic wind tunnel at Ames Laboratory.”. Mr D also stated: “I have fished in the general area a number of years and have observed various', type planes flying in this area, but have never observed anything of this nature before." It must also be remembered that Moffett Field was a USN airbase (!) and planes of all sorts flew in and out of the base regularly – including - pre-1949 USN blimps!

And you conclude that the engine should be heard? 30dB is the sound level in a silent bedroom at night. 40dB is the sound of a quiet library. How do you reach the conclusion that this is loud enough to hear under the circumstances?
The point is that these sounds CAN be heard – especially if coming from a “point source” as distinctive as “2 × Pratt & Whitney R-1340-AN-2 radial” engines! Besides your “calculator” does not account for how different frequencies of sound can be heard over distances. Lower frequencies, such as the sounds put out by the type of engine in question travel MUCH further than higher frequencies.

I stated: “Clearly the object “resolved” in (a great deal of) detail with the use of binoculars!”
Ok, enumerate the details that they saw. And please, not the details that they didn't see.
(Mr B – signed testimony) “I then focused a pair of 8-power, Navy-type binoculars and saw that it was indeed circular and that we appeared to be looking upward at the bottom side of it. (…) As I put the glasses on it, made a turn to the south, with no banking or leaning, and picked up speed (…) Observed through the glasses, the object appeared to be made of silvery metal, either completely circular or somewhat oval. It was thin near the edges and thicker in the center. A triangular fin appeared to arise amidship and extended to the trailing end of the object viewed as it travelled. There were no openings visible and no sound was heard. There appeared to be no engines or motors, no landing gear, no other protruding parts other than the fin already described."

(Mr C - record of interview) “Mr. C observed the object (for) about 30 seconds with the naked eye at which time he could see only a bright glitter, like a round mirror standing on edge with no apparent motion. (…) With the binoculars, the object resolved into a pancake-like shape, somewhat thicker in the center than the edges, perfectly flat on the bottom with a small fin or vane arising about midship and growing gradually higher to the rear, ending flush with a trailing edge as the object travelled. Flat surface was parallel to the earth. The object appeared to be made of aluminum or some other shiny metal, and while it appeared to be oval, it could have been perfectly round in plan section. There appeared to be no opening or protuberance of any sort other than the fin already described. Object appeared to be roughly 25 to 30 feet in diameter. … It executed no manoeuvres; no lights, no propellers, no landing gear, or any method of propulsion could be seen or heard. … The trailing edge of the object as it travelled appeared to be somewhat wrinkled and dirty looking.”

It's very nice of you to "inform me" of things I know very well. You are also wrong. Every spring I watch migrating raptors soaring at a height of 3-6000 feet. I do that from an island in the baltic sea, the raptors are over the mainland and sometimes over the sea itself. I assure you that heat haze is a major problem.
“Another way in which you can improve the quality of your viewing is where you choose to observe from. Obviously you want as dark a skies as possible, but choosing a wide open area, or over water is also a plus. Large heat sources such as concrete buildings, and parking lots will release heat at night making the local atmosphere unstable.” (http://starryskies.com/The_sky/events/mars/opposition06.html)​
– meaning of course that over water “heat haze” is NOT a factor! So you are exposed in a lie. More proof of this can be found in the actual definition of heat haze.

Also:
Main Entry: heat haze
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a shimmering near the ground distorting views of distant objects, caused by atmosphere in hot weather
Example: The horizon melted away in the heat haze.
Etymology: 1884
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heat+haze)​

And:
“an optical illusion caused by the refraction of light through air layers of different temperatures, such as the illusionary sheets of water that appear to shimmer over stretches of hot sand and pavement. This phenomenon is caused by bending of horizontal light waves upward from the layer of heated air directly over the hot surface. (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Heat+haze)​

I stated:
“You have NOT “explained” why a boat is an unstable platform.”
Wow, is this a serious question? Five people in a boat small enough to fish from on a river. Seriously?
First: It was NOT a question, but an observation statement.
Second: You have still NOT “explained”, (with direct reference to the environmental conditions at the time) what made the boat in question an “unstable” platform sufficient enough to adversely affect the viewing conditions.

I have seen no argumentation in any investigation about the possibility of a blimp. By all means, show me one if you got it.
Then you have simply NOT been paying attention to this thread! There is a great deal of “argumentation” about blimps - and research into the possibility of such - in this thread! Indeed it has developed into one of the MOST argued over and researched topics IN this thread. If you have missed it then I suggest you simply scan back over the posts – if you do this I doubt that you COULD miss it! (…although, considering you seem to HAVE missed it so far…)

Yeah, I agree. the dr. is not a very trustworthy source what with all the miscalculations and stuff going on in his texts.
Typical UFO debunker – to claim something that I did NOT contend. And even THEN your assertions are unfounded! Another typical UFO debunker “trick” – to state untruths as if they were truths. Now, what IS the word I am looking for here…LOL.
 
There is no such term as UFMO, you made that up. I'm still waiting for the evidence that someone here does not believe in UFO's. I'm perfectly willing to believe it, it seems at least possible, but you just have not provided any evidence, like a quote from a member that there aren't any unidentified flying objects.

There is no such term as an Unidentified Flying Mundane Object (UFMO)? Clearly the term exists, I just stated it!

The evidence is in the fact that NO UFO report exists where the UFO debunkers have NOT contended a “mundane” explanation to BE the answer. That is, no matter what the report, the UFO debunkers believe ALL have a mundane explanation – whether we presently know it or not. If the UFO debunkers believe that there exists no UFO report that does NOT have a mundane explanation, then they do NOT “believe” in UFOs – rather they believe in UFMOs!

You can prove your contention that you DO “believe” in UFOs by citing a case where you DO consider a UFO to be present. If you cannot (or will not) do this – then the only alternative for anyone is to conclude that you ALSO do NOT “believe” in UFOs – and, as a corollary, to conclude that you actually believe only in UFMOs.
 
I think this will shed some light on the large number of UFO stories. Note that evidence is not one of the criteria used in calculation. This site, by the way, allows and encourages hotlinking. XKCD FTW

the_flake_equation.png


A
 
Forgive me for jumping in without reading all the 174 preceding pages. In my teens I saw hundreds of cases of UFO sightings, ranging from the little white dots that do not go in a straight line, to close encounters of things.

There was one occasion I took my camera out and two large triangular ones flew at about the elevation from floor to ceiling, ie. pretty much right over my head. They were darkbrown with light yellow or orange lights on each of the three corners but none in the middle like seen here. I was clever to take pictures, but it wasn't exactly an impeccable nightshot camera, but the pictures got taken.

Regrettably I let my mother take the film to be developed. I eagerly awaited to see my pictures, but then she says there had been some blurry images in the bunch and they had been discarded. I would have wanted to have the pictures anyway, knowing what they had captured, even if blurry. It was night and a bad camera.

So, you guys, it is not all evasive and mysterious. Sometimes it is just the fact that we do not all carry expert recording equipment with us when it happens, especially not in our teens.
 
Forgive me for jumping in without reading all the 174 preceding pages. In my teens I saw hundreds of cases of UFO sightings, ranging from the little white dots that do not go in a straight line, to close encounters of things.

There was one occasion I took my camera out and two large triangular ones flew at about the elevation from floor to ceiling, ie. pretty much right over my head. They were darkbrown with light yellow or orange lights on each of the three corners but none in the middle like seen here. I was clever to take pictures, but it wasn't exactly an impeccable nightshot camera, but the pictures got taken.

Regrettably I let my mother take the film to be developed. I eagerly awaited to see my pictures, but then she says there had been some blurry images in the bunch and they had been discarded. I would have wanted to have the pictures anyway, knowing what they had captured, even if blurry. It was night and a bad camera.

So, you guys, it is not all evasive and mysterious. Sometimes it is just the fact that we do not all carry expert recording equipment with us when it happens, especially not in our teens.

That picture taken during the 80s Belgian ufo wave turned out to be a stealth bomber.
:D
 
There is no such term as an Unidentified Flying Mundane Object (UFMO)? Clearly the term exists, I just stated it!

The evidence is in the fact that NO UFO report exists where the UFO debunkers have NOT contended a “mundane” explanation to BE the answer. That is, no matter what the report, the UFO debunkers believe ALL have a mundane explanation – whether we presently know it or not. If the UFO debunkers believe that there exists no UFO report that does NOT have a mundane explanation, then they do NOT “believe” in UFOs – rather they believe in UFMOs!

You can prove your contention that you DO “believe” in UFOs by citing a case where you DO consider a UFO to be present. If you cannot (or will not) do this – then the only alternative for anyone is to conclude that you ALSO do NOT “believe” in UFOs – and, as a corollary, to conclude that you actually believe only in UFMOs.
Incorrect.

Alien debunkers believe that some objects are unidentified. If there were an explanation, mundane or otherwise, they wouldn't be unidentified.

Alien creduloids fill in the gaps by inserting "alien" for "unidentified".

UFMO is a term you made up. Not even other alien creduloids use it.
 
Unfortunately for you it is NOT a matter of “opinion”.

You stated:
“So the complete turn wasn't seen through binoculars.”

Mr B stated:
”As I put the glasses on it, made a turn to the south, with no banking or leaning"

– meaning of course that the turn WAS seen by Mr B!

Part of it at least. Probably not all.

The witness drawings ONLY look “blimp shaped” IF you have a confirmation bias toward “blimp”. Otherwise the drawings do NOT match the shape of the blimp in question

They certainly look more oval than circular.

Well, they worked for the Ames Research Laboratory for a start! (From SR14): “An employee in the supersonic laboratory of an aeronautical laboratory and some other employees of this lab.” From (http://www.brumac.8k.com/Rogue/RogueRiver2.htm): Mr B “worked in the Drafting Section of the National Advisory Committee, Ames Laboratory, Moffett Field.” and Mr C was “… a mechanic who worked on a supersonic wind tunnel at Ames Laboratory.”.

And I repeat, what in their work makes them familiar enough with different kinds of airplanes, blimps etc?

The point is that these sounds CAN be heard – especially if coming from a “point source” as distinctive as “2 × Pratt & Whitney R-1340-AN-2 radial” engines! Besides your “calculator” does not account for how different frequencies of sound can be heard over distances. Lower frequencies, such as the sounds put out by the type of engine in question travel MUCH further than higher frequencies.

Show your calculations to prove that the ambient noice level at the location couldn't drain out a sound of 30-40 dB.

I stated: “Clearly the object “resolved” in (a great deal of) detail with the use of binoculars!”

I asked you to enumerate, as in list, the detail that they saw. You just copy and paste blocks of text. Furthermore, you bold just part of the statement:

With the binoculars, the object resolved into a pancake-like shape

It resolved into a pancake-like shape, not into detail. Please, list the detail you claim they saw in a point by point format.

– meaning of course that over water “heat haze” is NOT a factor!

You are wrong in many ways here. First of all, heat haze can definately be a factor if the water is warm and the air is cold. Second, the object wasn't flying over water.

I stated:
“You have NOT “explained” why a boat is an unstable platform.”

First: It was NOT a question, but an observation statement.
Second: You have still NOT “explained”, (with direct reference to the environmental conditions at the time) what made the boat in question an “unstable” platform sufficient enough to adversely affect the viewing conditions.

Yes I have explained this and even without explanation it is pretty darn obvious to everyone.

Then you have simply NOT been paying attention to this thread! There is a great deal of “argumentation” about blimps - and research into the possibility of such - in this thread!

I wasn't asking about this thread. I was asking about the thorough research that you claim has been done by others.
 
More: The earth is NOT exactly a “stable platform” when it comes to viewing distant objects like planets (or moons of other planets). For example, there is the motion of the earth to contend with - which requires a telescope to be continually moved in order to track such objects.

You seriously compare watching a flying object, through binoculars, from a boat with watching a planet through a telescope? Same stability? Tracking celestial bodies through a telescope hasn't been a problem in a long time.
 
There is no such term as an Unidentified Flying Mundane Object (UFMO)? Clearly the term exists, I just stated it!

And it seems like you also made it up along the way in this thread.

You can prove your contention that you DO “believe” in UFOs by citing a case where you DO consider a UFO to be present.

Teheran, Rouge river, White Sands. We've been over these cases. They are still unidentified, so UFO's
 
There is no such term as an Unidentified Flying Mundane Object (UFMO)? Clearly the term exists, I just stated it!

And? Your point is? You're the only person that uses it. I couldn't even find anyone else using that term via google

The evidence is in the fact that NO UFO report exists where the UFO debunkers have NOT contended a “mundane” explanation to BE the answer. That is, no matter what the report, the UFO debunkers believe ALL have a mundane explanation – whether we presently know it or not. If the UFO debunkers believe that there exists no UFO report that does NOT have a mundane explanation, then they do NOT “believe” in UFOs – rather they believe in UFMOs!

Yes that is what the argument is if you are make it into a straw man I can do the same to your argument but I have no need since you do such a great job wrecking the ufo's are space craft hypothesis.

You can prove your contention that you DO “believe” in UFOs by citing a case where you DO consider a UFO to be present. If you cannot (or will not) do this – then the only alternative for anyone is to conclude that you ALSO do NOT “believe” in UFOs – and, as a corollary, to conclude that you actually believe only in UFMOs.


RUBBISH, do you even know what UFO stands for? Seriously mate talk about backing yourself to a wall, you can't even bother to look through this thread to find evidence where someone here said I don't believe in ufo's instead you make up a mega stupid weasel term "UFMO" so you can try to shift the burden of proof, yet again.

I'll ask again show us where someone said they don't believe in UFO's
 
Forgive me for jumping in without reading all the 174 preceding pages. In my teens I saw hundreds of cases of UFO sightings, ranging from the little white dots that do not go in a straight line, to close encounters of things.

And, once again, fireflies don't count. :rolleyes:
 
You also lie when you state “It was the consensus that these canals did exist at the time.” Proof?

I suggest you read the source I gave you. It was the consensus of many astronomers of the day that the canals did exist. Maps were drawn by various astronomers showing the canal systems. It was the work of some astronomers at the next close opposition that demonstrated the canals were suspect.

More: The earth is NOT exactly a “stable platform” when it comes to viewing distant objects like planets (or moons of other planets). For example, there is the motion of the earth to contend with - which requires a telescope to be continually moved in order to track such objects.

And you did not think that telescopes at the time did not have tracking mechanisms at the time?

As for the observations of “egg” shaped moons of Jupiter by Pickering (I presume you mean William Henry, 1858 – 1938 – and like a true pseudo-scientist bent on obscuring rather than illuminating you do NOT provide a clarifying reference – for as a supposedly knowledgeable amateur astronomer you would certainly be aware that there exists another William H Pickering – 1910–2004 - in astronomy and another also with the surname Pickering), are you seriously contending that attempting to make accurate observations of the moons of Jupiter around the turn of the last century actually equates with viewing a relatively close object with the aid of binoculars?

I gave you a source. Sky and Telescope. If you must know the exact source:

William Sheehan and Tom Dobbins. "The story of Jupiter's egg moons". Sky and Telescope. January 2004. pp. 114-119

I also gave you a book to look up on the subject written by these authors. Edward Pickering was his brother.

Certainly astronomers can and do get it wrong when they are viewing distant, relatively small astronomical objects from an unstable platform (the earth) through the entire thickness of the atmosphere – especially in the early part of last century (!) – but to equate that with the viewing of a relatively close object on a clear day with the positive aid of binoculars would seem to be the height of disingenuousness.

So, the planet Mars viewed at high magnification with a large professional instrument that is used in the clear mountain air is not equivalent to viewing some object from a rocking boat, with a pair of low power binoculars of an object that was at the edge of resolution with the naked eye?

I will ask you again:

Can you demonstrate using scientific papers (as you have claimed you can do) that it would be impossible for the witnesses to mistake an aircraft/blimp for a circular disc under the conditions they observed the object and for the duration?

If you can not, then the blimp/aircraft hypothesis is more likely than the alien spaceship hypothesis.
 
Forgive me for jumping in without reading all the 174 preceding pages. In my teens I saw hundreds of cases of UFO sightings, ranging from the little white dots that do not go in a straight line, to close encounters of things.

There was one occasion I took my camera out and two large triangular ones flew at about the elevation from floor to ceiling, ie. pretty much right over my head. They were darkbrown with light yellow or orange lights on each of the three corners but none in the middle like seen here. I was clever to take pictures, but it wasn't exactly an impeccable nightshot camera, but the pictures got taken.

Regrettably I let my mother take the film to be developed. I eagerly awaited to see my pictures, but then she says there had been some blurry images in the bunch and they had been discarded. I would have wanted to have the pictures anyway, knowing what they had captured, even if blurry. It was night and a bad camera.

So, you guys, it is not all evasive and mysterious. Sometimes it is just the fact that we do not all carry expert recording equipment with us when it happens, especially not in our teens.
I know the feeling. I had a UFO encounter the weekend before last. My wife, my sister and my mother were present. We all saw two objects. The first resembled a “sky blue” balloon and we only noticed it because a B737 flew directly underneath it at 2,303 metres. It was probably about 500 metres above the airplane and close to some cumulous clouds probably at about 3000 metres. It was about the apparent size of the tailfin of the plane. It was heading toward us (west) across the wind current (southerly – noted from the cloud drift direction) and we sort of thought it WAS a balloon – until it stopped dead. Then what we termed the “flasher” suddenly appeared out of nowhere at about 500 metres and headed up toward the “balloon”. This object looked as if an irregular triangular piece of broken mirror (mirrored on both sides) had been thrown into the sky and was tumbling randomly upward, catching the sun in bright scintillating irregular flashes as it “tumbled” (this description fails to capture what it exactly looked like – it was if the “mirror” had many facets glinting at once…). Anyway it rapidly rose up toward the “balloon” but did not meet it, rather it attained the same altitude but “stood off” at a distance of 100 metres or so – maintaining its “flashing” as they both paused in the sky for about 5 seconds. Then the “balloon” rose up and disappeared behind the edge of the nearest cloud. Then it poked out, then in, moving around the edge… Then the “flasher” began to move west, on basically the same heading as the “balloon” was originally on. It continued west until it encountered another cloud (a distance of about 30 degrees) and went into it. It sort of hung around that cloud – sometimes in, sometimes out until it went in and “disappeared” for good. The “balloon” was sighted again after “its” cloud dissipated further south, but this time it was very high up in the atmosphere that it just looked like a dot – and it continued up until it disappeared into the blue sky. And that was it. The whole thing took about 7 minutes. It was a bright sunny day with a few cumulous clouds forming and dissipating. So what were “they”? A weather balloon? It must have been quite sizable for the apparent size at the altitude it was (I know the altitude of the jet from Webtrak and the “balloon” was some distance above that). But if it was a “balloon”, how could it just stop dead in the obvious airflow around it – the clouds never stopped moving… and what was the “flasher”? there is simply NO explanation for THAT thing! So there you have it. Four witnesses, two UFOs. Just 10 days ago!
 
Part of it at least. Probably not all.
The point being that Mr B saw the turn and if he saw the turn he would have seen the side of the blimp (working on the premise that it was a blimp) and if he saw the side of the blimp then where is his description of the Goodyear logo, the passenger gondola, and the fins?

They certainly look more oval than circular.
The point being that the witnesses drawing does NOT match the shape of a blimp.

And I repeat, what in their work makes them familiar enough with different kinds of airplanes, blimps etc?
I explained that to you and you “snipped” half the explanation out in order to merely repeat your question! This is again a case of ”Don’t bother me with the evidence, my mind is made up”. You cannot even lead this horse TO the water, let alone get him to drink!
Well, they worked for the Ames Research Laboratory for a start! (From SR14): “An employee in the supersonic laboratory of an aeronautical laboratory and some other employees of this lab.” From (http://www.brumac.8k.com/Rogue/RogueRiver2.htm): Mr B “worked in the Drafting Section of the National Advisory Committee, Ames Laboratory, Moffett Field.” and Mr C was “… a mechanic who worked on a supersonic wind tunnel at Ames Laboratory.”. Mr D also stated: “I have fished in the general area a number of years and have observed various', type planes flying in this area, but have never observed anything of this nature before." It must also be remembered that Moffett Field was a USN airbase (!) and planes of all sorts flew in and out of the base regularly – including - pre-1949 USN blimps!


Show your calculations to prove that the ambient noice level at the location couldn't drain out a sound of 30-40 dB.
I’ll get back to you on this point.

I asked you to enumerate, as in list, the detail that they saw. You just copy and paste blocks of text. Furthermore, you bold just part of the statement:

With the binoculars, the object resolved into a pancake-like shape

It resolved into a pancake-like shape, not into detail. Please, list the detail you claim they saw in a point by point format.
Here then:

(Mr B – signed testimony) “I then focused a pair of 8-power, Navy-type binoculars and saw that it was indeed circular and that we appeared to be looking upward at the bottom side of it. (…) As I put the glasses on it, made a turn to the south, with no banking or leaning, and picked up speed (…) Observed through the glasses, the object appeared to be made of silvery metal, either completely circular or somewhat oval. It was thin near the edges and thicker in the center. A triangular fin appeared to arise amidship and extended to the trailing end of the object viewed as it travelled. There were no openings visible and no sound was heard. There appeared to be no engines or motors, no landing gear, no other protruding parts other than the fin already described."

(Mr C - record of interview) “Mr. C observed the object (for) about 30 seconds with the naked eye at which time he could see only a bright glitter, like a round mirror standing on edge with no apparent motion. (…) With the binoculars, the object resolved into a pancake-like shape, somewhat thicker in the center than the edges, perfectly flat on the bottom with a small fin or vane arising about midship and growing gradually higher to the rear, ending flush with a trailing edge as the object travelled. Flat surface was parallel to the earth. The object appeared to be made of aluminum or some other shiny metal, and while it appeared to be oval, it could have been perfectly round in plan section. There appeared to be no opening or protuberance of any sort other than the fin already described. Object appeared to be roughly 25 to 30 feet in diameter. … It executed no manoeuvres; no lights, no propellers, no landing gear, or any method of propulsion could be seen or heard. … The trailing edge of the object as it travelled appeared to be somewhat wrinkled and dirty looking.”

You are wrong in many ways here. First of all, heat haze can definately be a factor if the water is warm and the air is cold. Second, the object wasn't flying over water.
Again a UFO debunker makes an unfounded assertion without providing evidence in support of that assertion. More – in order to make that assertion, he must ignore the evidence I have provided as to what heat haze IS and where it is manifest!
The witnesses were viewing the object across a wide expanse of river and it was (about) 5000 feet up! Heat haze is a GROUND effect. See my post here:

Main Entry: heat haze
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a shimmering near the ground distorting views of distant objects, caused by atmosphere in hot weather
Example: The horizon melted away in the heat haze.
Etymology: 1884
(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heat+haze)​

And:
“an optical illusion caused by the refraction of light through air layers of different temperatures, such as the illusionary sheets of water that appear to shimmer over stretches of hot sand and pavement. This phenomenon is caused by bending of horizontal light waves upward from the layer of heated air directly over the hot surface. (http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Heat+haze)​


Yes I have explained this and even without explanation it is pretty darn obvious to everyone.
IF you HAVE “explained” it – then you will be able to point to where you HAVE done so. No?

I wasn't asking about this thread. I was asking about the thorough research that you claim has been done by others.
I think you will find the research you are looking for here: (http://www.brumac.8k.com/Rogue/RogueRiver2.htm) or perhaps you simply have not read Dr Maccabee’s extensive research on the “blimp hypothesis” contained within that document? Hint…it follows the section titled “SOME ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS” and is itself titled “APPENDIX: THE BLIMP HYPOTHESIS”.
 
I have had a great deal of experience using a very good pair of 10x binoculars looking at both terrestrial and celestial objects (no, not my sunbathing neighbor, smarty-pants), and I can vouch for the fact that, without a tripod, it's next to impossible to hold binoculars absolutely still while observing something in the sky, and absolutely impossible if one is standing on a boat or other watercraft.
 
I'll ask again show us where someone said they don't believe in UFO's
Multiple posters have asked you this question Rramjet. You responded once with quotes that did not contain the claimed information. I think it's safe to draw a conclusion at this point that you are simply unable to admit when you are wrong.
 
A flashing object moving up toward a stationary object in the sky would fit with a piece of windblown tinfoil on a kite string.
The rest could be your imagination and poor sense of distance.
 
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