• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

UFO'S: A possible explanation

Looks like you don't even know what Occam's Razor is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor


Occam's razor
One entry found.


Main Entry:
Oc•cam's razor
Variant(s):
also Ock•ham's razor \ˈä-kəmz-\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
William of Occam
Date:
circa 1837
: a scientific and philosophic rule that entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily which is interpreted as requiring that the simplest of competing theories be preferred to the more complex or that explanations of unknown phenomena be sought first in terms of known quantities


(This one I really like the most)
Occam's razor is also called the principle of parsimony. These days it is usually interpreted to mean something like "the simpler the explanation, the better


"The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations."

"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."

(This is another good one)
The law of parsimony is no substitute for insight, logic and the scientific method. It should never be relied upon to make or defend a conclusion.

Albert Einstein:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."

It's important to remember that Occam's razor proves nothing. It serves instead as a heuristic device -- a guide or a suggestion -- that states that when given two explanations for the same thing, the simpler one is usually the correct one.
 
I think we can all agree that aliens could be the cause of the UFO sightings. If the possibilities are infinite, then you'd have to agree. It's also possible that aliens live here among us. It's possible we're all in a computer program like the Matrix, and it's possible that it's turtles all the way down. It's just more likely that all that stuff is nonsense. I think most UFOs are man-made.

Anyway, this is a good article on sprites (from the OP) with some decent pictures. They kind of look like UFOs, but the article does say that they're rare to view from the ground and they don't last very long.
 
"
Experimental military aircraft" is one possible explanation that I've noted has not been raised yet
.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that and ‘innocent misperception’, so let's include those under #11.

I guess this one goes under #11 alongside "burning oil rigs", "dust or ice particles on the camera lens", "the known phenomenon of visual hallucination", "gradual and accidental memory embellishment", and any other reasonable, logical and more probable scenarios than "alien visitation" the author of the list neglected to mention.

Are you saying that every sighting from the earliest recorded event, up to and including the present, are all simple, mundane explanations?
 
@jacksteele, you can try to pick the definition you wish, but in any case, alien landing and visiting us , in view of all our knowledgge on c speed, distance bewteen stars, energy requirement, absence of any verifiable evidence, is NEITHER the simplest explanation, NOR the most parsimonous, NOR the one requiring the least number of hypothese. Heck if you accept Alien visitation on testimony, you can start accepting bigfoot, pixie, dragon, unicorn, leprechaun, ghost, oni, kamisama, Zeus, angel, demon, chupacabra, etc....

The simplest and most likely explanation of all the above, is that people misinterpret what they see.
 
Last edited:
Again, it is all a matter of interpretation of each event. We can dance around this all day but pilots and policemen are not much better at observations than most other people. When Dr. Hynek (sometimes called the "Galileo" of modern UFOlogy) looked at the bluebook data, he discovered that pilots made more mistakes than other types of observers. He stated:

"What we have here is a good example of a well-known psychological fact: "transference" of skill and experience does not usually take place. That is, an expert in one field does not necessarily "transfer" his competence to another one" (Hynek The UFO report p. 261).


If you want to describe a specific event we can go into that. However, the generic claim of pilots being infallible observers is not accurate. It has been shown time and time again to be false.

I think it's actually worse than that. The skills do transfer, sort of, but not in the way you'd expect. Piloting skills involve keeping the aircraft safe. Traffic awareness is a watchword.

If you're flying, and spot something with an apparent motion, and no change in relative bearing, there are two possibilities: that object is on a collision course, or that thing is flying formation with you. The first possibility really grabs your attention. If you're a pilot, running into another object can ruin your whole day.

There is a third possibility, of course, that the object is actually a long, long, way off, and thus doesn't show much change in relative bearing. And so pilots might misidentify the moon or Venus, or distant oil rig burnoffs as a threat not because they're bad pilots, but because they are well-trained and conscientious. And those non-threats displayed the motions (or lack thereof) associated with threats.
 
If you're flying, and spot something with an apparent motion, and no change in relative bearing, there are two possibilities: that object is on a collision course, or that thing is flying formation with you. The first possibility really grabs your attention. If you're a pilot, running into another object can ruin your whole day.

No doubt. However, there is a good deal of UFO reports caused by bright meteors and re-entering space debris that appear as if they are on a collision course or nearby but are not. Jenny Randles "Danger in the air" is a good source of those kinds of reports.
 
It's the same effect as the moon or Venus, though. It's so far away that there's no angular motion. And something that gets brighter while maintaining the same angle is almost certainly going to be interpreted as getting closer.

I can imagine Iridium flares being misidentified by pilots, as well.
 
"
Experimental military aircraft" is one possible explanation that I've noted has not been raised yet.

I guess this one goes under #11 alongside "burning oil rigs", "dust or ice particles on the camera lens", "the known phenomenon of visual hallucination", "gradual and accidental memory embellishment", and any other reasonable, logical and more probable scenarios than "alien visitation" the author of the list neglected to mention.

Are you saying that every sighting from the earliest recorded event, up to and including the present, are all simple, mundane explanations that exclude the possibility of UFOs?

But yes, that last one certainly is a possibility too. Now what?

Now what? Simple, we get back to the basics that we started out with. Subjective skeptics are psychologically predisposed to always use a mundane explanation even if it’s inappropiate. It’s great to be for the simpler but when you dumb it down because you simply don’t believe, you are letting the rigid, inflexible boundaries of your reality map hold sway because of a bias blind spot.

I gave an all time classic example of subjective skepticism with the Joe Nickell vid of The Flying Friar. So far nobody has addressed that. That Nickell portion of the clip shows exactly the point I have been making all along: A subjective skeptic will go to any lengths to try to explain away that which doesn't conform to their reality map even to the point of abusing OR like Nickell did.

I would love for you to address the Joe Nickell segment on Human Levitation. I would like to hear your objective, rational and logical take on it.
 
Mundane objects are known to exist. Now, it's certainly possible that if you hear hoofbeats in the night, it's zebras, and not horses. But even admitting that, it's unlikely to be unicorns.
 
I think jakesteele may have come up with CSIOPtic as a mangling of the old CSICOP organization, psy-ops (psychological operations), and myopic. From my point of view, its an attempt at being clever, but thats it.

I have seen a UFO. I could not identify it. It appeared to be flying. It may have been an object. Little green men? I doubt it.

I personally think, looking back on it years later, it was probably a superior mirage.

Why do I go to this "cookie cutter" explanation? Simple. Because on the whole, most of the time, cookie cutters produce a good explanation. In this case, it matches video of similar mirage UFOs. Is there a possibility they were aliens? Yeah, but its a very small possibility compared to the much more likely cookie cutters, which we know produce phenomenons that match the reported sighting.

I pretty much agree with with that. UFOs would be the least likely but still within the realm of possibility, unlike unicorns.
jake, the burden of proof is on you to produce the aliens or their crafts. We don't have evidence that they exist, and the leaps of evidence required for it to make sense are fairly extreme, making this an extraordinary claim. Think, an interstellar alien race has managed to find a populated planet, and all they do is cruise around the sky, mutilate a few cattle and probe some people. And what is it with probing anuses? You can travel from one star to another, but your medical diagnostic equipment requires invasive procedures?

You need to provide extraordinary evidence to prove your claim. Until that point, aliens are simply not an equally probably explanation for UFOs.

There is a burden of proof on you to prove definitively what it is before you reject a possibility that isn’t simple and mundane and in the realm of consideration. Occam’s Beard – the simplest explanation is not always the best.

There is no burden of proof on me to provide aliens because I’m not claiming that there necessarily are aliens.

When you try to force a plausible explanation, as in the case of Joe Nickell, that’s where you cross the line from objective to subjective skepticism.

By the way, how about that clip of Joe? I haven’t heard anybody really address that head on. What’s your opinion on that clip?
 
It's the same effect as the moon or Venus, though. It's so far away that there's no angular motion. And something that gets brighter while maintaining the same angle is almost certainly going to be interpreted as getting closer.

Not for meteors and debris re-entry. The angular motion is much greater and there are cases of pilots swerving their aircraft away from an apparent collision with a meteor or reentering space debris.
 
You just said:

So you tend not to take the testimony of military pilots, not this guy.

In this particular instance, Phoenix Lights, I don’t necessarily reject what the amateurs said, but objectively, I can’t dismiss expert military/commercial pilots’ reports in general, either.


You cannot prove a negitive. I cannot for instance prove there are no unicorns. The burden of proof will lie solely with those making the claim.

Sure you can. In this context just prove the positive. All you’ve got to do is prove the right explanation, complex or not, beyond all doubt, and by default, all other explanations will be incorrect.
I think this quote sums it up best:
Albert Einstein:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." You’re not being simple, you’re being simpler.

I’m advocating a model that includes the possibility of alien technology as a viable theory based on all of the eyewitness testimony by experts that can’t be explained away by the mundane. You automatically exclude that possibility by trying to put it in the realm of unicorns, of which, there have been no recent reports of by qualified experts like biologists or zoologists.

Again, taking the null stance I do not see how in any case the burden of proof would lie with the skeptic. I could never prove there is no God or UFO or trolls under the bridge. I could only ever hope to show how astronomically improbable it is.

You’re comparing apples to oranges to grapes. You can’t prove there is a God and you can’t prove there isn’t one. And there have been no recent sightings of Trolls by qualified biologists or zoologists, unlike UFOs. Of the three, UFOs are the simplest and most likely of the three. Unless, of course, you believe in God and unicorns.


T
hat bogus and totality subjective. You will find many skeptics that take the claims of "foo-fighters" in WW2 seriously. And you will also find plenty of skeptics that take Kenneth Arnold's original 1947 seriously. Now when I say "seriously" does that imply "Alien Spaceship"? No, it does not.

If they take those cases seriously but don’t imply or include aliens, then what exactly are they taking seriously and why? What is it about those that make them special?

OK, at least I got the correct show. You really should see the scene with the goofs that claim they can "fly" through transcendental meditation; it's a riot.

Anyway, such contemporaries of the "Flying Friar" are:
Seamonks, Bishopfish, The Vegetable Lamb, Monopods, Cockatrice... I don't need to go on. Records from that era are spotty at best and overflowing with allegory and allusion.

I don’t care about whether humans can levitate or not. What I am concerned about is people like Joe Nickell cloaking denialism in the guise of objective skepticism and critical thinking and infecting other people with it.

Personally I believe most UFO reports are natural atmospheric phenomena or man made aircraft mistaken for Alien Spacecraft (then it really is not a UFO then is it?). A small minority of cases I believe to be hoaxes. A very few cases may be unexplainable (Lonnie Zamora in 1964, Kelly-Hopkinsville encounter of 1955 and the Pascagoula Abduction of 1973 all come to mind) in the sense that they have annoying loose ends that don't really make sense.

BUT... that is not license to jump to the conclusion that Extra-Terrestrials are involved when it is not the only explanation.

I haven’t “jumped to the conclusion” that ETs are involved, but you have jumped to the conclusion that they’re not ever involved.

I agree with this section except for the “license to jump” part. It’s not jumping to conclusions. It’s a reason not to exclude the possibility of alien tech.

You, however have jumped to the conclusion that all the answers are always mundane, and sometimes you just don’t have enough data to figure out which mundane it it.

By the way, what’s your take on the Joe Nickell’s debunkery on human levitation? I haven’t heard anything from anybody about that yet. What’s up with that?
 
I haven’t “jumped to the conclusion” that ETs are involved, but you have jumped to the conclusion that they’re not ever involved.

Why does ET have to be involved? List all the options if you are going to be listing ET. There is as just as much evidence for the existence of Fairies, witches on brooms, flying demons, time travelers, etc. as there is for ET visiting the earth. Let's not dismiss those possibilities as well. Again, the possibility of UFO reports (with emphasis on the "U" = UNIDENTIFIED) being alien spaceships is remote and should be the same as a witch on a broom. Here is another video clip for you to watch so you might understand:

http://heelspurs.com/zpics/feynman8.rm.
 
You missed my point about "pilot error" then. Pilots make mistakes just like any other human. If a pilot crashes an airplane, even with dozens of years of experience, because of a simple error, what makes his observational skills so perfect? I can give you all sorts of observations by skilled pilots that were errors in observation. The recent release of some British UFO records showed one event where Tornado pilots thought they saw an advanced aircraft fly over them. It turned out to be reentering space debris. Why did those experienced pilots make such an error?

Of course pilots can make mistakes. But the professional ones make far fewer than amateurs or they wouldn’t be flying 747s and F-14s. They are right way, way, way more times than they are wrong.




This is the problem. You can't tell which is reliable and which is not. You can't pick and choose therefore you have to question (i.e. express skepticism) the reports that appear exotic. It is more likely they are mistaken and not an accurate observation. When a potential explanation surfaces, then it should be considered likely. In the case of the Tornado pilots, it appeared to be a good UFO report of something truly exotic. However, it happened at the same time as the re-entering space debris.

Of course you question reports that are exotics. You use objective skepticism on them as well as any other type of sightings or evidences. And, of course, when a potential explanation surfaces it should be considered as a possibility in descending order of plausibility. But if all your mundane possibilities don’t pan out and the only thing you have left is an exotic, then you must give that serious, due deliberation just like any of the others, especially when you have credible witnesses attesting to the fact.

Occam’s Beard – the simplest explanation is not always the best.



However, if your testimony states the person had a rifle and the actual weapon was a handgun, your testimony is suspect. In the case of UFO reports it is not a matter of questioning if the witness saw something but how they interpreted what they saw.

Military pilots go through all kinds of training like Instrument Comprehension, Cyclic Orientation, Spatial Apperception, Electrical Mazes, airplane silhouette identification and recognition, etc.


Again, it is all a matter of interpretation of each event. We
can dance around this all day but pilots and policemen are not much better at observations than most other people. When Dr. Hynek (sometimes called the "Galileo" of modern UFOlogy) looked at the bluebook data, he discovered that pilots made more mistakes than other types of observers. He stated:

"What we have here is a good example of a well-known psychological fact: "transference" of skill and experience does not usually take place. That is, an expert in one field does not necessarily "transfer" his competence to another one" (Hynek The UFO report p. 261).

See below where a much more fleshed out overview of Hynek.

If you want to describe a specific event we can go into that. However, the generic claim of pilots being infallible observers is not accurate. It has been shown time and time again to be false.

Who said they were infallible? What kind of pilots? I said there are many pilots, like commercial or military, that make for highly credible experts, more so than amateur astronomers; professional > amateur.

It’s like you’re saying that an experienced hunting guide in Alaska will observe no more of his surroundings in the woods that the green horn, city slicker who hired him.

Have you never heard of the term, ‘trained observer’? Somehow Amateur astronomers who look at the skies, as the likes of Phil Plait would say, an ‘inordinate amount of time’ and give the answers that you need for your reality map, you consider them totally credible witnesses that you don’t doubt or question.

But when it comes to highly skilled and experienced pilots, whose job is the skies and everything up there with them, you consider them no more credible than Joe Blow from Anywhere, USA.

If you have an artist giving his opion that the twin towers were brought down with C-4 instead of the planes, then, yeah, your idea of ‘transference’ works.

Are you telling me that all the training I’ve already listed about pilots being intensively trained does not make them better at observation, doesn’t do them any more good than if they had played hooky from class and gone fishing instead? Why does the Air Force waste time and money on classes like airplane silhoutette identification?

You’re not looking for an explanation as to what it is out of scientific curiosity and the advancement of science, rather, you’re looking for a mundane explanation for the sole reason of debunkery. In other words, it’s more important to you to disprove UFOs at any cost, sometimes going to absurd extremes like Joe Nickell by stretching credibility to the breaking point, than it is to weigh and asses the evidence carefully, being concerned where the evidence takes you. You are emotionally predisposed to debunk at any cost. That is the definition of subjective criticism.


Fleshed out Hynek:

Another shift in Hynek's opinions came after conducting an informal poll of his astronomer colleagues in the early 1950s. Among those he queried was Dr. Clyde Tombaugh, who discovered the dwarf planet Pluto. Of 44 astronomers, five (over 11 percent) had seen aerial objects that they could not account for with established, mainstream science. Most of these astronomers had not widely shared their accounts for fear of ridicule or of damage to their reputations or careers (Tombaugh was an exception, having openly discussed his own UFO sightings). Hynek also noted that this 11% figure was, according to most polls, greater than those in the general public who claimed to have seen UFOs. Furthermore, the astronomers were presumably more knowledgeable about observing and evaluating the skies than the general public, so their observations were arguably more impressive. Hynek was also distressed by what he regarded as the dismissive or arrogant attitude of many mainstream scientists towards UFO reports and witnesses.
Early evidence of the shift in Hynek's opinions appeared in 1953, when Hynek wrote an article for the April 1953 issue of The Journal of the Optical Society of America titled "Unusual Aerial Phenomena," which contained what would become perhaps Hynek's best known statement:
"Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is. The steady flow of reports, often made in concert by reliable observers, raises questions of scientific obligation and responsibility. Is there ... any residue that is worthy of scientific attention? Or, if there isn't, does not an obligation exist to say so to the public—not in words of open ridicule but seriously, to keep faith with the trust the public places in science and scientists?" (Emphasis in original)[4]

the essay was very carefully worded: Hynek never states that UFOs are an extraordinary phenomenon. But it is clear that, whatever his own views, Hynek was increasingly distressed by what he saw as the superficial manner most scientists looked at UFOs.
When the UFO reports continued at a steady pace, Hynek devoted some time to studying the reports and determined that some were deeply puzzling, even after considerable study. He once said, "As a scientist I must be mindful of the past; all too often it has happened that matters of great value to science were overlooked because the new phenomenon did not fit the accepted scientific outlook of the time."
In a 1985 interview, when asked what caused his change of opinion, Hynek responded, "Two things, really. One was the completely negative and unyielding attitude of the Air Force. They wouldn't give UFOs the chance of existing, even if they were flying up and down the street in broad daylight. Everything had to have an explanation. I began to resent that, even though I basically felt the same way, because I still thought they weren't going about it in the right way. You can't assume that everything is black no matter what. Secondly, the caliber of the witnesses began to trouble me. Quite a few instances were reported by military pilots, for example, and I knew them to be fairly well-trained, so this is when I first began to think that, well, maybe there was something to all this."
 
There is a burden of proof on you to prove definitively what it is before you reject a possibility that isn’t simple and mundane and in the realm of consideration. Occam’s Beard – the simplest explanation is not always the best.

Shifting the burden of proof. Why does anyone have to prove positively what it is to reject something else?

There is no burden of proof on me to provide aliens because I’m not claiming that there necessarily are aliens.

Yes, you are. That's why you're trying to shift the burden of proof.

When you try to force a plausible explanation, as in the case of Joe Nickell, that’s where you cross the line from objective to subjective skepticism.

Offering mundane alternative explanations isn't forcing anything.

By the way, how about that clip of Joe? I haven’t heard anybody really address that head on. What’s your opinion on that clip?

Haven't watched it, sorry.

If you have compelling evidence for something extraordinary, please present it. Otherwise, mundane explanations will have to do. That leaves the burden of proof in your court. If you aren't arguing for an extraordinary explanation, then why this discussion?
 
Of course pilots can make mistakes. But the professional ones make far fewer than amateurs or they wouldn’t be flying 747s and F-14s. They are right way, way, way more times than they are wrong.

Tell that to the people who have lost their lives because of pilot error. Didn't an F-18 pilot kill some skiers in Italy one time because he flew too low? Don't make pilots into god-like creatures because they aren't. There are good pilots and there are bad pilots but there is no such thing as a pilot who can't make a mistake.

Of course you question reports that are exotics. You use objective skepticism on them as well as any other type of sightings or evidences. And, of course, when a potential explanation surfaces it should be considered as a possibility in descending order of plausibility. But if all your mundane possibilities don’t pan out and the only thing you have left is an exotic, then you must give that serious, due deliberation just like any of the others, especially when you have credible witnesses attesting to the fact.

If a pilot states they saw a dragon flying through the air, would you believe him? What if he had tens of thousands of hours flying time? Would you then suggest that he really did see a dragon or, maybe, just maybe, he might be mistaken. Anecdotal claims by themselves are not facts (somethign that can not be refuted). They are stories told about an event that may or may not be accurate.


Military pilots go through all kinds of training like Instrument Comprehension, Cyclic Orientation, Spatial Apperception, Electrical Mazes, airplane silhouette identification and recognition, etc.

Yet they still make mistakes. The Tornado pilots are a good example. I can give you more if you so desire.


Who said they were infallible? What kind of pilots? I said there are many pilots, like commercial or military, that make for highly credible experts, more so than amateur astronomers; professional > amateur.

Do pilots know what a bright fireball looks like? Do they know what an iridium flare is? Do they know the difference between a geosynchronous satellite and a low earth orbit satellite? Pilots are great at flying and I do not doubt their skills at this. However, looking at the past history of pilot error, it does not mean they are great at identifying an unknown. This is what Hynek meant.

Have you never heard of the term, ‘trained observer’? Somehow Amateur astronomers who look at the skies, as the likes of Phil Plait would say, an ‘inordinate amount of time’ and give the answers that you need for your reality map, you consider them totally credible witnesses that you don’t doubt or question.

Actually I do doubt some amateur reports. Especially if they are exotic. Take the SLO that was imaged by "amateur astronomer" Chuck Shramek. He sparked the whole UFO trailing comet Hale-Bopp nonsense. The extraordinary claim was examined by many and doubted. When it was exposed to be just a nearby star distorted by optics, it was rejected. I can say the same about the "Aries flasher". Exotic report doubted and eventually rejected. This one had numerous observations and a photograph! All shown to be satellite reflections and glints.

But when it comes to highly skilled and experienced pilots, whose job is the skies and everything up there with them, you consider them no more credible than Joe Blow from Anywhere, USA.


The fact is that many make mistakes. That is a fact. As a result, the more exotic the report (no matter who is reporting them), the more skeptical one should be of that report until it can be verified.


Are you telling me that all the training I’ve already listed about pilots being intensively trained does not make them better at observation, doesn’t do them any more good than if they had played hooky from class and gone fishing instead? Why does the Air Force waste time and money on classes like airplane silhoutette identification?

If you are dealing with "unidentifieds" the silhouette training means nothing. The training the military gives its pilots are to identify enemy aircraft and shoot them down or attack targets. It has nothing to do with all the atmospheric and astronomical phenomena visible to the pilot. I can give you examples of military pilots chasing bright stars for goodness sakes.

You’re not looking for an explanation as to what it is out of scientific curiosity and the advancement of science, rather, you’re looking for a mundane explanation for the sole reason of debunkery. In other words, it’s more important to you to disprove UFOs at any cost, sometimes going to absurd extremes like Joe Nickell by stretching credibility to the breaking point, than it is to weigh and asses the evidence carefully, being concerned where the evidence takes you. You are emotionally predisposed to debunk at any cost. That is the definition of subjective criticism.

No, it is you who seems to be stuck in the mindset of not recognizing issues associated with these reports. You have made blanket statements without being familiar with the case histories. I have actually looked at some of these case histories. Have you? Have you read about all these mistakes made by military pilots (i.e. chasing stars, swerving to avoid re-entering debris/meteors, confusing the setting moon peaking out of some clouds, etc. etc.)? It is you who have not bothered to even look at these histories and see if they can be explained. You just accept the statement they can not be explained and then assume they are alien spaceships. Why not dragons?

Your "fleshed out Hynek" sounds like a cut and paste from somebody's website. Is this your own work or somebody else's. You should give them credit if you do use their work you know. BTW, Hynek still says you can't trust pilots as infallible observers in his book, "The UFO report". The statistics show this is true.
 
I said at or near the approximate heights of planes. I didn't say anything about the 'average' height", you did. I believe that's either a Straw Man or a red herring. I know, it's a Straw Man fishing for a red herring.

It's like when airplanes have flown side by side with alleged UFOs. But you still won't give up the ghost and say one of the possibilities, although the least likely, is a UFO, will you?

I'm not understanding your usage of the phrase "unidentified flying object", these airplanes flying side by side didn't just say U.F.O. did they. I would think a trained pilot qualified to make a better description. As long as they are U.F.O's there can be no explanation for them, thats what the word unidentified means
;)
take the example of the black triangle U.F.O's that started showing up in the early 80s, they were U.F.O's now theyve been identified as black project aircraft like the stealth bomber or Aurora, now only the real nuts are claiming that theyre aliens emulating stealth bombers so that they can remain unidentified. It never ends if youre not looking at the evidence from a sceptical position
 
Last edited:
Why does ET have to be involved? List all the options if you are going to be listing ET. T
here is as just as much evidence for the existence of Fairies, witches on brooms, flying demons, time travelers, etc. as there is for ET visiting the earth.
Let's not dismiss those possibilities as well. Again, the possibility of UFO reports (with emphasis on the "U" = UNIDENTIFIED)
being alien spaceships is remote and should be the same as a witch on a broom.
Here is another video clip for you to watch so you might understand:

http://heelspurs.com/zpics/feynman8.rm.


There have been thousands of reported sightings of exotics, of which, many are from very credible witness. As far as I know there have not been thousands of sightings of witches, fairies, flying demons, etc., in recent times. That is the “Bad Analogy” gambit. You’re not even comparing apples to oranges, you’re comparing apples to rocks.

Sorry, I tried to play the clip with Real Player, my default, but the image was very distorted and there was no sound and I’m not very good with ‘puters.


 
That is the “Bad Analogy” gambit. You’re not even comparing apples to oranges, you’re comparing apples to rocks.

The analogy is accurate. How much evidence is there that aliens are visiting the earth? Zero. How much evidence is there for witches, dragons, and fairies? Zero. As far as all these "exotic" cases go, what do these "exotic" cases prove? That people state they saw something extraordinary? It is your contention that "exotic" cases must have "exotic" answers. Therefore, we must look at all the potential "exotic" answers. That includes witches, dragons, fairies, etc. Can you prove a UFO case was not a flying dragon, or a witch, or a fairy? Since you can not prove they were not, then there is the same amount of potential they were the source of the "exotic" UFO report.

BTW, the clip was Richard Feynman talking about having a discussion about flying saucers. A layman told him he was not being "scientific" about flying saucer reports when he said he did not think they existed in the form of alien spaceships (since he could not prove they did not exist). He rephrased his comment to the individual by saying, "I think that it is much more likely that the reports of flying saucers are the result of the known irrational characteristics of terrestrial intelligence rather than the unknown rational efforts of extraterrestrial intelligence."
 

Back
Top Bottom